I’m running out of identities!
Is it just me, or are other people having trouble losing your member name and password with this new forum? I am now on my third “identity,” after signing up two previous times and, after a few posts, having my member name and password suddenly stop working. For a while, I just stopped trying to post on the forum, but there are so many good discussions it’s difficult to stay away!
I am entering my member name and password exactly as they appear in the confirmation e-mail from Tauton. Just for good measure, I actually went into the confirmation e-mail from Taunton, copied the member name and password, then and pasted them directly into the sign-in form. But that didn’t work either.
I’m on my last identity here!
Replies
Hope the Sysop will contact you and examine. I haven't had any problem as long as I remember to add two spaces to the end of my (usual) 4 character password, to comply with the host's six character minimum.
Good morning Matthew,
You are not the only one. I was 'Ricky_Briggs' until last week when the system kept telling me that either my name of password was incorrect. This seems odd as I have it saved in my machine and normally just click the button. Why it suddenly changed I do not know!
By the way, I log on daily and lurk so it isn't something that I have forgotten due to time lapse.
Matthew,
Are you a member of any other of Prospero's forums? Seems that if you are, they want you to have the same "handshake". Talk to Mark Coleman, SysOps, he might have an answer for you......
Dano
Mathew, you can change your screen name by going into my forums and picking a nickname. it's not a fix for your problem, but at least you can keep the same nickname no matter what your member name is.
Andrew,
Yes, I've changed my nickname. However, I had to create a dummy e-mail address. The forum software will not allow me to access my user information with my real e-mail address. Every time I try to put in my real e-mail address, it tells me there's already someone registered under that e-mail address, but at the same time it will not let me sign in with it.
So, I am simultaneously registered and yet not registered under that e-mail.
Gotta go back and finish that Kafka novel I was reading.
Edited 5/30/2002 12:01:50 PM ET by Matthew Schenker
Edited 5/30/2002 12:03:02 PM ET by Matthew Schenker
Ooooh, this is not fun!
I'd email Mark and get his help. Here's a link:
http://forums.taunton.com/dir-app/bbcard/bbSendMail.asp?webtag=tp-thesandbox&cType=2&uName=MARK_COLEMAN&dMode=1&eBtn=0&uid=257819323
that will pop up a mail composition box. I just added him to my "List of Friends" so he's easy to get to.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Mathew,
This is the first that I have heard of this puzzling problem. Please email me at [email protected] and give me as much background info as you can. For instance, Email address that you are registered under, username(s), password(s), type of computer, OS of computer, browser/version, type of internet connection (cable,dsl Dialup...) and any other info that you can think of. This way I can try and replicate your problem which should in turn help me to resolve it for you. So send it along and anyone else that might be experiencing the same problem.
Mark
SYSOP
Cool, Mark, now you're in my address book.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Mark,
Check your e-mail, you were the one that e-mailed me about this problem. This was right after The Move.
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Dano,
The problem I worked on in the beginning was users whose email address was already taken or that they could not register because of various factors. I am not aware of the problem of users being registered and then days/weeks later not being able to login with a username/password combo that has worked before. This is new to me. Did you have this problem? How did you resolve it? Please let me know as I am contacting the Folks at Prospero right now about it and hope to have it resolved shortly.For now...MarkSYSOP
Mark,
Ahhh....I "misunderstood". Since Mathew didn't answer the inquirery if he had registered on other Prospero forums......sounded like the same symptons. Sorry for the error. He does have your e-mail doesn't he?
But, since I have your attention......I tried conducting a search today for a post I saw awhile back that had a link I had been using. Any who, to make a short story long, I used "http://www" as the search criteria in all folders back to "the beginning of time"; only got about 100 hits. Tried conducting a seperate search in "The Archieves" got the same number of hits. What's the deal, the search engine in love with the number of "100", gotta believe there are more than 200 postings here with links in the messages. No, I didn't find the link I was looking for.......
Dano
"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Edited 5/31/2002 12:45:17 AM ET by Danford C. Jennings
Sounds like I am not alone with this...
Today, I had to create my fourth identity! It's getting to the point where I can hardly remember what my sign-in name is, since now I have to choose ridiculous names that don't have anything to do with me.
The really frustrating thing is, the system tells me that someone is already registered with that name (me!!!) but it still won't let me sign in. It also won't let me use my real e-mail address, because, again, someone (me!!!) already has that e-mail. So I can't use my real e-mail address because I am already using my e-mail address, but I can't use my e-mail address because it doesn't work.
Also, I only have a couple of e-mail accounts, and I've been through them all! So now I have to make up bogus e-mails.
The system I am using is a typical system: Windows NT, regular PC features, online using a T1 connection...
Anyway, this forum has some great woodworkers, and it would be a shame to go away, but I'm way too busy to spend so much time on this when other forums out there allow you to sign on without a hitch.
Edited 5/31/2002 9:23:27 AM ET by Matthew Schenker
Edited 5/31/2002 9:38:47 AM ET by Matthew Schenker
Matthew,
When "they" made The Move, I had the same problem you did. I normally don't pay attention to who's does one's website.....Any who, I remembered that I was registered at Classmates.com which is a Prospero site and had to register here under the same screen name and password, even had the same profile.
Once I figured that out, I haven't had any problems loging on here. As to why your's keeps changing, I haven't a clue. Just one of the many glitches here, I guess.....
I'd hate to see you go but, can understand your decision; I've not been coming here as often as I used too. "Knots" is 3rd on my list of the 3 woodworking forums that I participate in.......FWIW.
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Hey Dano,
Well, my identity still works. I don't belong to any other Prospero sites, at least as far as I know. Knots used to be my first choice for woodworking discussions, but it has dropped, for me, to a distant 3rd because of technology issues. From the number of posts I see here lately, it looks like this is true for many others as well.
I am usually very supportive of new ideas, but I can't see how this new forum is any kind of improvement over what we had before. Even if I didn't have trouble with my sign-in, I find the new forum uncomfortable to use.
When it comes to woodworking, I like to go directly to the discussion, without a lot of technological "static" getting in the way. I won't mention names, but I'll just say that one of the forums I read is as simple as it gets, and it has a tremendous following.
Admitting up front that I've had no technology problems, so that's not been a factor for me. I was thinking just yesterday how much more I like this forum than the old one. Yes, I had some frustrations at the beginning of the learning curve, but once those were gone, I was won over. I can easily find the threads that most interest me, I can easily see when something new is in one of those threads, I can post links and attachments easily, the composition window is totally cool. There's more, but all in all, it was well worth the investment in time it took to learn the new system.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forest_girl,
I'm curious, who "were" you before The Move? Never saw your handle until they went to Prospero. Frankly, one shouldn't have to "invest" any time in learning how to navigate a website, I believe web designers refer to it as being "intuitive".....
The only "advantage" to this site is that I can say:
Bwwwaaaaahahahaha!!!
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Hi Dano, I was JamieS, or Jamie S., or something like that. Always felt it was pretty boring, so took advantage of the move to become who I realllly am, forestgirl!
My guess is that how intuitive a site is may depend to some extent on how experienced the users are relative to the number of features that are available to the users. And if certain users aren't terribly interested in those features, then they probably feel a bit resentful. Some of the features I really like now are ones that I didn't care one way or the other about the first week or so of Prospero.
Of course, one of my favorites also is
Yeah, Sunshine!!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Ah, now I know who you are....
"Intuitive" means that little if any "experience" is required to get around, i.e., it comes "naturally". I'm in the business of furniture making not "learning" how to navigate around a site....I remember one of your first postings here at "Knots" complaining about the difficulty of navigating around it......As I recall, all were patient in helping you "get to know" the place.
I've remained fairly silent on The Move, in fact, I've been pretty "silent" overall since The Move, which is indicative of my feelings about "Knots" and Taunton Press. With all the "new" identities I haven't a clue who anyone is anymore, except for those who use their names or didn't change their handles.
The total change in format has driven myself and others away or at least to the point where we are not "regular" contributors. This is also true over at "BreakTime"...I used to "hang out" in the 'Shed, haven't even lurked there in over a month. It just ain't the "same", Jamie. I've been around here for a fairly long time as a "lurker" and a "regular" contributor.
To be frank, I don't have the time nor the inclination to "learn" my way around here. As I said before, this new format actually give me a headache from the eyestrain. My "contribution" is to use a font that is easier on the eyes when I post, that's it.
The really sad thing is that there was a huge data base of information but, the search function here is about as usefull as teats on a boar hog and now it's nearly impossible to conduct a systematic search. I've been to many a forum in my time and I can honestly say that this site is the worst in format and functionality. That's all I'm gonna say on this subject.
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Oh well, not much to say I guess. If you're determined not to join in that's your prerogative. BTW, it's not Prospero's fault I changed my "handle." I tend to enjoy change, so maybe that has helped me in this process. And I've also enjoyed helping others who didn't catch on so quickly, or were really stumped by something, or whatever. I certainly made (more than) my share of suggestions for improvements, but scanning my posts I don't see any significant whining, even at the very beginning.
OK, time to settle down on the sofa and cheer on the Kings. I'm ready for this Lakers so-called dynasty to end!!! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie,
but scanning my posts I don't see any significant whining, even at the very beginning
I wasn't accusing you of "significant whining", just pointing out that you found the other format confusing. Most of the "old timers" find this one confusing and don't have the time to "learn" all the ins and outs.
I also wasn't being critical of you changing your "identification" I just didn't know who you were until you told me.....Sorry if you took it as such, that was not my intent.
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Dano,
You and I have disagreed on a couple of things. But on the forum issue I agree with you completely. The whole idea of a woodworking forum is to go straight to the woodworkers and their ideas and contributions. The forum technology itself should be as transparent as possible. Although this may sound like a small thing, I think it is more significant. The format of a discussion area can impede quality of information. I work in the technology field for a living, so I am no stranger to new ideas. It's just that the Propero system is tripping all over itself and putting itself in center stage instead of the information.
Another problem is having people with too many toys and not enough subject-matter knowledge run the show. Yes, changing fonts and using "emoticons" and all that nonsense is seen by some people as an "improvement," but it depends on your idea of improvement. My guess is that the people who designed this forum software haven't spent a lot of time learning what different kinds of users need. They just came up with some new gadgets that they think are really cool, but which have nothing to do with reality. I say this as someone with experience working with software engineers. This forum is a typical case of, "when you have the ability to do something new, just do it, even if it's not necessary." This philosophy is rampant in the software industry.
I could rattle off probebly 25 design problems with this new software. But a specific one I'd like to call attention to is the search function. Like you, I am very unhappy that the search function is basically lost. I used to use that all the time. Now I don't even bother trying.
When the forum itself becomes too much of an issue, it's sort of like going to see a broadway play, and in the middle of a number seeing the janitors mop up the stage and change light bulbs.
Lot's of grousing about here. Wha's w/ all the complaining?
I had a problem when I first got into this, so I sent an e-mail to taunton. It took a bit, but they fixed the thing.
I'm a woodworker, have been for over 25 years. I don't know "sweet fanny adams" ( to use sgian's phrase) about computer technology. I just don't have much interest in this area. I find this forum mostly fun, sometimes very informative and other times, not. I don't participate in other forums, I wouldn't have the time, so I have nothing to compare it to, but I do believe that the world of technology usually makes promises it can't keep. I consider this normal, natural and expected. Just my 2 bits worth. wb
I, too, like the new forum. I frequent several boards on various subjects and I find this to be the one I most like to visit. I lost access to the internet last fall and finally got back on this February. Between my visits the format changed. IMHO the change was for the better; I think much has been gained and little or nothing lost. I had no trouble using the new format. I find it very easy to navigate around and very simple to arrange subjects to the way I like them. Any new program, format, process, etc. requires some learning. I found it very easy to learn what I needed to learn to make my way around this site; there is a "learning curve" but it's a very short one. BTW, I suppose I must classify myself as an "old dog." But I readily acquired the "new tricks" I needed.
BTW, one new feature on this site, one that I use all the time--each time I post something--but which I can plainly see few others use, is the spell checker! I would encourage others to use it too--or at least read over their notes before posting them. Too often I lose the gist of a sentence because of a misspelling that I cannot figure out. I know that the spell checker doesn't provide alternate, correct spellings. But more often than not the misspelled word is a simple one, one that everyone knows how to spell. For difficult words I have a dictionary right next to the computer.
I have only one gripe about this site. It has nothing to do with the software or format, but has to do with forum policy: I don't like that contributors can use "handles" instead of their real names. The anonymity provided by the use of handles leads some to be impolite and permits those so inclined to "flame" without real personal consequences(remember "runs4wood"). It's unfortunate that some people will do things when they can do so anonymously that they would never do if others would know exactly who did it; to a large degree light alone can stop rude behavior.
Alan (my real name.)
Alan, spell checkers are alright if you spell American, True, I make spelling mistakes, usually through rushing, but I don't use American English, and I don't like the u being taken out of colour, nor centre being changed to center, and I'll always spell words like realize as realise, and my computer is loaded with programmes. I've had to teach MS Word how to spell by incorporating a custom dictionary so that my writings don't get butchered.
I've never posted using my real name in forums, and nor do I ever provide a valid email address. That's just one of my funnyosities-- what would a spell checker make of that word-- but if anyone wants to know who I am they can do a bit of clicking to investigate. Maybe someday I'll feel like posting using my real name, but my old alter-ego Sgian is much nicer than me.
Slainte, RJ. (PS. Forum spell checkers don't like words like Slainte, bampot, numpty, glaikit, heidbanger, and beastie, all words I use commonly in both the written and the spoken form. All of this was written very much tongue in cheek.)Link to RJFurniture site.
Sgian,
Whoa. I'm sorry if you--or anyone--took offense. That certainly was not my intention.
My point about the spell checker was that some posts can become unintelligible due to misspellings or typos. Those words you cited are perfectly understandable--and that was my point. For any "communication" to occur requires that whatever the writer (or speaker) says is understood by the reader. No understanding means no communication. Misspellings and typos can mean that a sentence or phrase is not understandable. The whole point of forums such as this, it seems to me, is that we users can communicate with each other. IMHO we all should try to reduce or eliminate as much as possible anything that impedes communication. The spell checker or self editing are merely tools to accomplish that goal.
Regional or other dialects, jargon or spellings (usually) are perfectly understandable. So such words or spellings do not detract from the effort to communicate.
We all using our real names I meant as a device through which this forum could further limit flaming and rude behavior. A laudable goal, IMHO. Handles are fun, but they can also allow people to be rude or mean when they would not otherwise behave that way, if everyone knew--or could easily find out--who they are.
Again, no offense meant.
Alan
Alan, no need to apologise. No offense was taken, and I'd hoped the last sentence in my previous post, which went something like-- "All this was written very much tongue in cheek," had conveyed the light-hearted spirit. It's that lack of body language and facial expression thing. I agree that it's sometimes hard to follow a posters intended meaning or point, but it's also true that a spellchecker wouldn't necessarily make the meaning any clearer, ha, ha. Slainte, RJ.
RJFurniture
Edited 6/1/2002 12:43:02 PM ET by Sgian Dubh
Alan, I rather belatedly discovered that the drop-down list under "Options" (at the end of each message posted) includes a "Report Violation" option. This is a quick way to nix activities such as the ones you're referring to, as Sysop can nail 'em pretty fast.
Personally, I like the nickname thing, especially since it's rarely taken advantage of.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/1/2002 10:38:34 PM ET by forest_girl
HI Alan,
My real name is Joe. Sure, I think there is something to be said about being honest with one another and not hiding our identities. I think though, that the anonymity we see in this forum sort of "equalizes" all of us. Namesakes or titles shouldn't shrink or shout the importance of our message, as they often do. I'm with ole' Will Shakespeare who wrote, "What's in a name?" Sure. this is an educational and important forum to you and I, but it shouldn't be taken so seriously that formality is a necessity. What if I revealed that I was actually George Bush or Bill Clinton rather than using a stage name? Would you have any pre-conceived notions or bias to my message? Hmm?
"Hide not your talents, they were for use made. What's a sun-dial in the shade?"
- Benjamin Franklin
Edited 6/2/2002 12:51:32 AM ET by Joseph & his coat of many colors
Edited 6/2/2002 12:52:57 AM ET by Joseph & his coat of many colors
Joe,
You might want to re-read my posts on the subject of "handles." My notes had nothing to do with celebrity, or reputation, and certainly had nothing to do with formality; my concern was about responsibility.
I'll try again: not having to identify themselves, being able to remain anonymous, encourages some people, who are so inclined, to behave in ways they would not if everyone knew--or could easily find out--who they are. Eliminating the opportunity to misbehave anonymously, it seems to me, would tend to reduce such misbehavior. That's my only point.
As to your question, how would I respond to posts by celebrities of one sort or another... I long ago realized that the quality of arguments (statements of opinions, ideas, data, and so on) depend entirely on their contents, not by any measure of the person making them. Ad hominems and ad verecundiams do nothing to change the contents of arguments, and thus do not affect their quality.
We all know Bill Clinton is a liar. But that does not make everything he says a lie. What he says is a lie if, and only if, it is not true--not just because he said it.
I might add that on some of the other boards I visit, where all participants must use their real names and e-mail addresses, several "celebrities" (meaning people very well known in the field and usually considered to be experts) regularly contribute. I have noted absolutely no deference to these "names"; others do not take theirs as the last word. There is often disagreement, even to the posts of a well known expert. The discussions can get quite lively--though also very polite. In those boards, apparently, contributors already feel "equalized"; the use of real names hasn't turned the exchanges into sermons to the faithful flock. But there is practically no flaming, rudeness or mean spirited posts. That, again, was my point.
Alan
Alan, I think you make a mistake in assuming that you are dealing with a 'real' identity when you see a name such as "Steve R. Jones" and find it has an associated Hotmail account through which you can reach this person. The Internet is an unsurpassed medium for anonymus communication and in the broad spectrum of personality types, there are many who would use it to, as you put it, misbehave. In my view, a pseudonym doesn't really afford any greater protection for them. I think misbehavior is more related to personality than to opportunity. While I sympathize with your views, I would not like to see tighter codes of conduct put in place. Given that there are as many approaches to forum participation as there are people, I would rather the net be cast broadly to include as many as possible and do the weeding out myself rather than having more and tighter constraints on who can particpate and how.
Hi Alan,
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your taking the time to do so. Of course you know all of this is merely friendly dialog and debate, and nothing to be taken seriously. Sure, some of us could use more tact or manners in the content of our posts, but I'm not sure disclosure of identity would change the tide all that much. I take it all with a grain of salt, good or bad. It livens things up to hear from the class clowns out there, don't you think?
Joe
"Hide not your talents, they were for use made. What's a sun-dial in the shade?"
- Benjamin Franklin
Hey wb, I see you really do like that old British euphemism, 'sweet fanny adams' also spoken/written as 'sweet FA,' ha, ha. I do rather miss the old threaded message format from the Web X based forum though. This 'flat' format makes it a little hard to see who's responding to whom, and what point(s) they are raising in response to that original post. Of course you can click on the number in the top right corner of a message to take you to the message being responded to, but it's an extra step. It gets to be inconvenient if the thread has many responses. I saw over at BT where one of the Taunton staff makes mention that they and Prospero are trying to come up with a threaded format for these forums.
I have no use for all the fancy fonts, colours and other rubbish, but being able to italicise, bold, or underline for emphasis is handy, and being able to to sneak in a link to my website at the end of every one of my posts via the permanent footer facility probably does my business no harm. I haven't noticed it do any good either, <g> Slainte, RJ.Link to RJFurniture site.
Matthew,
All of us have disagreed at one time or another, I view that as a positive part of learning.....
Your comments are right on the button. One shouldn't have to have a background in high tech software to navigate a site.....
And yes, there is a lot of grousing going on....I believe that some of us have "earned" the right to bitch. We have "built" a data base with our contributions over the years that was second to none, that it is nearly impossible to access makes me feel that those efforts were wasted. I've said it before; I've held my tongue on this, up until now. Not having visited other sites, then making a statement alluding to this being the "best" one out there carries no weight, IMHO.
Sgian, at WebX one could highlight with italics and/or bold, a <g>, or ;-), :-), etc could also be used to try avoid misunderstanding, along with links to ones websit with their "handle".
As to the comment about handles and anonymity; I've never had a "problem" with those who used handles, that's their own business; it's what they post that is of importance. Flamers were not tolerated by us or Tim and Mark.
Under the guise of seeking our input, Tauntan "announced" the change, this is what really sticks in my craw. Then they deny it. When they changed their home page, we all should have seen this coming.
FWIW, I had a strong loyalty to the "Knots" forum and the "Woodshed Tavern", no more. It's Taunton's house, they can do what they want but, I for one, have learned where their "loyalties" lie, it's not with those who built the data base......
Dano
"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Perhaps those of us who don't agree or who haven't been involved in the building of a 'data base second to none' shouldn't respond to this subject. But, when I read a comment like, "some of us have earned the right to bitch", or "I for one,have learned where their' loyalties' lie, it's not with those who built the data base..." my curiosities are aroused. Where are their loyalties? Is there a shadow agenda , a dark motive lurking in taunton's house? Has the data base been made unavailable to those who built it for some purpose, some reason? Well, I doubt it.
And if you say that someone's opinion "carries no weight,IMHO" then in my opinion your opinion doesn't come across as being "humble" at all. It comes across as superior with attitude. Maybe that's how you meant it,maybe not, I'm not sure.
Look, I'm new to this forum but I'm not new to woodworking.I've enjoyed the last couple months reading and occasionally responding here. I'm sure there are things that could be improved. Have you addressed your questions and comments to the head cheese of taunton's house? If so what kind of response has there been? If not, why not try that before going away mad?
This format is new. Correct? Isn't it possible that bugs are still to be worked out? Losing your I.D. has got to be frustrating, to put it mildly, but this seems like something that can be worked out with time and patience. Whatever else is stuck in our "craws," let's just cough it up and take a look.
WB,
My intent was not to imply that Taunton has some sort of "agenda" in regards to the data base. But, I will say that The Move was a planned event and those responsible for making that decision didn't seem too concerned about "protecting it" i.e. insuring that it was (is) easily accessible.
I don't know if you were around prior to The Move, what was posted by Sysop announcing the decision and asking for our input but, it's obvious that none of our "input" was used; the decision had already been made. I had read each announcement in all of Taunton's forums, each was worded slightly different and I noted with interest that SysOps was a much more active participent in the subsequent "discussions" that took place, particularly over at "BreakTime" and "Cooks Talk", in contrast, he appeared to almost be silent here in "Knots". I can't speak for the cooks but, I do know that the carps have left in droves and not at all silently.
Ever since The Move, we have been promised that things would be "fixed" it hasn't happened. Nothing has changed, except that a very large number of the "old timers' no longer come here.
As to how I come off with an opinion that it "superior with attitude", I'm reasonably confident that those still left who "know" me, understand where I am coming from.
In regard to my correspondence with those at Taunton, that is between them and I. But, yes I have addressed my "concerns" to Tim Sams and Mark Coleman, so I am perfectly aware of what's going on.
The "head cheeses", as you put it, are not Tim, Mark, and Andy. In fact, it wasn't all that long ago when one of the "head cheeses" stepped in over in the kitchen and nearly destroyed that forum.
Who are "they" loyal to, you ask? Well, obviously, Taunton is in the business of publishing magazines, books, and videos, not running a website. This is a family owned business, so the loyalties lie within and to the bottom line. Which, by the way, is the way any business should be run. This is not a profit center, so they are doing us a "favor" by making this site available. I may be "superior with attitude" but, stupid I am not. One of the first rules of business is to maximize profit by minimizing expense, this is an expense. WebX was "costing" them. This site "costs" them too, just not as much.
I'll give you this little tidbit; the editors frequently lurk here. Working with wood is not rocket science, what is being written today is, in large part, repetition of what has already been written in the last 100 years. Where do you think some of the ideas for an issue or article comes from? There have been times when some of the editors or staff writers would actually ask us for input on an article that was planned.
The biggest thing that sticks in my craw, at this point, is that after almost 4 months the search issue has not been fixed. We were "sold" on the fact that this "feature" would be far superior than the one at WebX, not true. Not even close. We were also told that the format would be "similar" to but, far more "enhanced" than the one at WebX, again, not even close. It wasn't until about a week before The Move when we were informed that The Gallery could not be downloaded as well as being told that we had a week after The Move where we could access WebX to get any files that we might want to save. Guess what? No access to WebX after the day things went "live" here.
So you don't misunderstand, I'm not mad at Tim, Andy, or Mark. Fact is, I empathize with them, their hands were tied. I'm pissed at the "family". This thread and my postings herein, are the first ones I've made since The Move that are negative or critical of this decision, other than a few comments about the headaches I get from the eyestrain. It's because I actually do care, that I am making my views known.
Mark recently posted a survey question on browsers, frankly, I think the priority should be the search function here and not more bells and whistles to "enhance" the so called experience here. Like I said, it's been nearly four months, Prospero is not new to the game. Why is it that software types keep fiddling with things that aren't broke and ignore the things that are?
I've accepted the change; I just don't like it nor the "party line" hype that has accompanied it. The only time when I ever experienced serious problems with the performance of WebX was about three or four years ago when load times where slower than milked toast, they fixed it, only on rare occassions did it reoccur but, those were network issues pertaining to Qwest out here on the left coast, not WebX.........
Okay, I've said my piece. Sorry you took offense at my mentioning that because comparisons to other sites were not made that an opinion in regards to this one carries no weight. I've never owned or driven a Yugo but, I know they are pieces of chit....;-)
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Dano,
So the members of WebX Knots were promised a better forum service and got an inferior one; your input was asked for but not used, you were told you would be able to download files from WebX but that has never happened, the prospero forum is 4 months old, there are problems, and nothing is being corrected as promised. Had I been involved in THE MOVE, I might be pissed as well. At least very disappointed.
It's my opinion and experience that involvement with large business or the world of technology often brings me a sense of dissatisfaction,or a sense that there have been promises made and not kept. I've come to expect this and consider it normal. There are exceptions to this of course, but generally speaking, simply put, it's in the nature of business to get more for less, or to give less for more. Big surprise.
I had a custom woodworking business for nearly 20 years that started in my garage, and out of necessity and demand grew to over fifty employees. As it grew larger it sort of developed a life of its own; there were battles over what was important, profit over quality, profit over service, etc. You get the picture. This was, and still is, a very solid, profitable company. I sold out and now work alone again. I guess my point is a simple one; one of the best things I like about woodworking is creating something for someone out of wood and being able to make sure that they get at least what they were promised or more, I can give them quality over just more profit. This gives me a sense of satisfaction that I don't get anywhere else. This doesn't seem like much, but it is something we can do. Regards to you, wb
WB,
You and are probably more alike than we know.....thanks for "listening".
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
The biggest thing that sticks in my craw, at this point, is that after almost 4 months the search issue has not been fixed. We were "sold" on the fact that this "feature" would be far superior than the one at WebX, not true
On Cooks Talk the search works quite well--MUCH better than the old forum. Maybe you are not using it correctly? If you set the parameters for "beginning of time" you can get 'way back. Don't know about this forum--haven't tried to search. Are others having trouble searching?Gretchen
Hi Gretchen. Remembering to select "beginning of time" sure made my searches more successful! There are a couple of things on that page that I'd change, but for the most part it has worked for me. I do wish they'd provide an option to search only the Discussion Titles (as opposed to all messages).
In general, I've found that search functions in discussion groups are somewhat frustrating to use, but the Prospero one is as good as any I've seen, and better than the one at Wood Mag by far. Can't remember enough about the old one at Knots to compare.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Gretchen,
"Beginning of time" here means back to the day of The Move. I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to get the hang of the search here. Tried to find postings that I've made, no go. Either they lost a chit load of the Archives during The Move or the search function just isn't "right". I'm not the only one having problems with the search function....Glad to hear you cooks are hangin' in.....
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Just to let you know, I had to once again re-register this morning.
I am with Dano on the search function. To me, a good search function is the soul of an active forum. That is where our contributions gain long-term usage. Without a good search function, the usefulness of a forum like this is limited to just a few days. When the search function doesn't work, all that effort made by participants is lost.
I used the old search function all the time, and often found answers to my questions before I went ahead and posted a new topic. When responding to someone else's post, I was more inspired to give it my best shot because I knew it would be useful in the long run.
I've done a test of the current search funtion, entering topics that I know were active in the last forum, and got no results, or limited results.
Now, I have some opinions about a few of the other topics discussed in this thread. Taunton has all the right in the world to do whatever they want with their property. They can get rid of the forum altogether, if they so choose. I would not argue with their ownership of the forum. However, once a forum is established, it takes on its own life, and that life is composed of the hundreds of individual minds that tune in every day. And all those ideas put on this forum every day are creating an overall image, a very positive and intelligent image for the most part. And who do you think ultimately benefits from that image? Yes, the users benefit by having more woodworking information, but Taunton benefits by having a burnished image in the eye of future advertisers and subscribers. We are doing Taunton a favor by being so vigilant about the quality and functionality of this site. If people leave this forum in droves, both the users and Taunton lose out.
Beginning of time" here means back to the day of The Move
On CT it goes back to well, the beginning of time.Gretchen
Good to see Dano and Sgian in here.
Wish all the others of the old gang would show up.
This forum seems so big to me that maybe lots of the old bunch are posting but I just don't run across their names. Too many nooks and crannies in which one would have to peak.
For those who may not know, if you aren't the most advanced wood worker and have a problem, ask Dano, ask Sgian--------you'll really get some professional help.
Well, anyway,
William, Florida
I make something, sometimes twice, each year.
Thanks William, I'll be sure to check out that low life northern buddie Dano and that low life Brit/Texan Sgian.. I am sure they have much more to offer than I do..... No offense guys just havin fun... Gotta keep this place sane or at least not totally serious... ya know... Hey John and Cuttoff did I manage to ruffle your feathers too... Hope so.. O.K. I admit, when I have problems, I mean real problems... These are the guys I ask....John and Cuttoff are goof balls, I know them well, Dano and Sgian (aka Richard) are truly professionals.
Steve - in Northern California
Edited 6/17/2002 12:54:15 PM ET by Steve Schefer
I'm a boozeer and a schmoozer Steve, and I don't know as much as William infers. His compliment I know was well intended. I know a bit about this, and a bit about that, but as far as I'm aware electricity drips out of the ceiling to be caught in buckets. But yes, I'm still hanging around this old joint even though someone moved all the decorations, and the bar isn't where it used to be, and the beer served nowadays is just gnatspish, ha, ha. Slainte, RJ.RJFurniture
Gotta love ya... so when you headed out...
Whoops dang, a dreadfull thing just happened... Guiness on the bar not in the glass or in the mouth... I have sinned.Steve - in Northern California
Spillage of Budweiser= slight throat wash astringent with light bright smack of unnatural chemicals, renowned for ability to disinfect mild bacterial infection in upper throat. Licking toilets has same medicinal benefits.
Spillage of Guinnes= unpardonable sin. Drop trews and expose plooky backside for all to laugh at. Place long string of toilet paper in plumbers crack and light the bottom end. If you last five seconds without dropping paper and get first degree burns up jacksie, you're either, a. rugby type, b. daring, c. stupid.
Slainte, RJ.
PS. I'm the rugby type, and good at boat races, which involves lots and lots, of pints.
PPS Ask Dr. Frank Biscardi for confirmation of Budweiser's beneficial medicinal effects if you don't believe me. It's a well known fact,------not.
RJFurniture
Edited 6/15/2002 2:21:39 AM ET by Sgian Dubh
Budweiser. . .
Like making love in a canoe. . .
Frank
F'ing close to water you mean of course. Slainte, RJ.RJFurniture
William,
Thank you for the kind words...I certainly wouldn't include myself in the ranks of Sgian, Lee, and Rob, I just try to help is all....
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Modesty ? Dano, you have no problem breaking bread with the gods. I've certainly learned a great deal from you.Steve - in Northern California
And I'm just an eejit with a big mouth, so leave me out of it. Ta, Slainte, RJ.RJFurniture
No way... Everytime I know I'm right your prove me wrong... How in the heck will I ever learn this trade if I leave you out...Steve - in Northern California
Well Dano,
I can do little about those sticks in your craw. Sorry about your eyes, but I can tell you that the search function is rather robust. What's not good is that it's not intuitive for you to use.
I won't give you any party lines here. We've got this forum, it's here to stay (or at least until we decide to change it again, and then we'll be sure to ask for your input!--ok, that was poor taste...).
I'll tell you that I wouldn't necessarily say Taunton is going to be buying me a new truck with the money they save on this site. We do get better service--certain forum members seem to forget the numerous outtages (it wasn't just your ISP, Dano) we had with WebX. The fact is that it was more than money that made the decision.
As far as "a very large number of old timers" leaving Knots, I don't see it. I don't like even one person to go, but there are a lot the old members here. Plus there are a load of new members here too. Fact is, this board has more hits and more members than we had at WebX. Doubt it's the format. Perhaps it's the cash checks we've sent out...
All that being said, Dano, you've got some good points. As you know, you're being heard and we don't take what you (or anyone else on the forum) lightly. We're trying to make this place a good forum. Yes, we've had delays in development. But despite your view that our software engineers are tinkering with things that are not broken, they are working on the issues that many of you have raised (not the least of which is the lack of an intuitive format).
Perhaps we just need to give them some more Twinkies and Diet Coke?
Tim
____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
Edited 6/4/2002 10:44:29 PM ET by Tim Sams
Edited 6/4/2002 10:50:09 PM ET by Tim Sams
Tim, I have a special recipe for your engineers, but the story behind it first: Years and years ago I worked at one of the University of California child development centers. We had a teacher there who was adamant about serving quality food to the kids, no junk food, on and on. We all gave her a hard time about how carefully she watched the staff on this.
At the end-of-the-year potluck, this lady was on the "dessert" list. She brought a 9x11 baking dish, with Hostess Twinkies layered happily one next to the other, thoroughly covered with a 1" thick layer of Cool Whip! Your techies will love it!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
ForestGirl,
You can take the Twinkie out of the Techie, but you can't take the...oh never mind. I like it and I'll tell Mark to serve it up with extra cool whip!
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
Tim,
Thanks for the reply and I did deserve the sarcasm. I kinda "boiled over" after keeping my thoughts to meself, I suppose. At least the spell checker at WebX knew how to spell "Taunton" <g>.
Any who, glad to see the title "Knots Moderator" under your name, that's one big improvement and I mean that sincerely. I don't "see" as much of the "old timers" but, then, I don't read all the postings like I did at the "other place"; hurts my eyes to. ;-)
Now, Mae West could be described as "robust" but, a search function.......????
I've not abandoned Knots, fact is this discussion has prompted me to visit more regular and post some replies to actual wood working related questions.....impressive, eh?
If you're gonna spring for Twinkies and Diet Coke, why not find out if they need new HushPuppies too?
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Dano,
You're a good egg. Thanks for enduring my sarcasm. Late night, no twinkies, you get the picture.
I have noted your responses to woodworking questions, and as before, it's been cool.
Hush puppies, dude, we're lucky if they're wearing shoes!
Good night.
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
One of the things I don't care for is the split screen concept. When I bring up any forum I want to see a wood working question title list & be able to click on one & bring up the question or idea with all the answers or replies below it in a seperate window that comes up over the the listing of wood working posts . It should fill up the whole screen & be scrollable & when I get done I should be able to close that window & find the list of posts & questions waiting for me to make my next selection.
I think you should go over to one of the largest wood working forums on the internet & check out why it is successful. I don't think the name needs to be mentioned but the first part of the name starts with B & the last part of the name starts with P. This forum is so successful because it is easy to use it doesn't have a whole bunch of different areas to go to as long as it a wood working related it's ok to talk about even off topic posts are allowed if they are kept to, a minimum & are not overdone. Also the members are meeting all over the U.S. having BBQ's & get togethers with trips to lumber mills & going out to dinner & lunch & whale watching cruises & at the BBQ's they are doing things in the hosts shop like turning bowels & having portable saw mills brought in for demonstrations & table saw blade tests . Now this is success.
A big part of that success is good clear clean easy to use forum software. Not this cluttered 2 window software with all kinds of places to click for this & click for that. Keep it simple. Put your index for different areas or topics on another page. This forum used to be somewhere between 1-3 for me now it's dropped down to 10. Yes it's the last place I look when I have read all the other forums. I get here maybe 1's a week sometimes it's even longer. I really like the way the people present themselves here there are a lot of nice people here with great experience to draw on but a big re-orginization of the software is called for. Get rid of the clutter.
I am now using my SIXTH identity. Tim, if you're looking, check how many times someone with the user name Schenker has been registered. I am now up to an identity called Schenker6. Seems that almost on a daily basis, my identity evaporates and I have to start over again. Luckily, I am able to keep using the same nick name, which allows some consistency.
Bart, I agree with you completely -- my sentiments exactly. When I go to a woodworking forum, I am interested in, well... the woodworking. This forum now has so much software in the way of the woodworking, and because I keep getting prompted to re-enter my password (which doesn't work anyway), I often lose track of where I was heading.
The split-screen concept is clunky at best. Again, there's all sorts of frames and software and technology in the way. It's like being in a house where someone decided to put up loads of columns all over the place, so you can't just walk into a room without bumping into something.
And, yes, the B----- P--- forum is exactly the model I am talking about. You click on the forum area, and there's the entire discussion range right there before you.
To use another analogy, the way this forum is arranged, it's like people are all in separate little rooms, and unless you make a point of going out of one room, walking down the hal, knocking on the door, and then saying the password AGAIN, you can't be part of the discussion.
Anyway, the original reason I posted this discussion was because of my disappearing identites.
Edited 6/5/2002 11:51:11 AM ET by MattSchenker
Ok, you're killing me with curiosity--what is this B--P forum of which you speak?Close enough for government work
Badger Pondforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yikes Matthew! Has Mark Coleman been in touch with you yet? I sent him an email address I had for you from a while back. If you have a new one, pop it to me at . That's just wacky.
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
Tim,
I just tried my FIRST identity again, and it worked, even though it previously had STOPPED working! So now I'm going to do a little experiment -- I'll go through all six identities and see which ones work and which ones don't.
Maybe I need a SEVENTH so I can have a different identity for each day of the week.
Edited 6/5/2002 10:03:26 PM ET by Matthew Schenker
Just for an update, I have now created three more identities since my last post.
What is this now, nine? I'm losing track.
Been using the same identity for somewhere around three years at Badger Pond.
Matt, are you communicating directly with SysOp about this???? forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yeah, I heard that about BP, everyone having the same identity...<g>
Scott
Ya can be your self on Badger Pond. Don't have to make somthing up. Much easier to remember your own name. These other boards you can be George, Bill, Harry or Sue. I knew he have to get tuff or die,at little gravel in his gut & oops thats another song. Well Tweety Pie look out for the big bad Putty Tat.
While I am in agreement with the overwhelming consensus that this format is the spawn of the devil that has lowered the intellectual level of discussion, it is possible to view discussion topics without the split screen - example: right click on the 'general discussion' header and 'open in a new screen', this will bring up a page with nothing but discussion titles, post numbers, and dates - you can make that screen the one where you enter the forum, and never have to view the clutter - click on a topic and and it comes up in its own screen, again without the clutter, scroll down to find the other folders - while these screens offer less information than the WebX format, at least they don't assault your eyes -
speaking of which, (assaulting the eyes) I have been able to change the fonts - I do have micro-sux products and I click on 'tools' on the top bar, and then on 'internet options' on the fall down menu, and one of the options is font style another is font size -
so... I have arranged it such that I can now scan the forum with the resigned ambivalence of a person taken for granted, instead of the despairing fury of of a child who has had his candy stolen - (it is another example of how far things have slid, that I am offering technical computer advice - - )
Edited 6/5/2002 12:10:24 PM ET by David Doud
Hello
I don't see a place to report a problems with the site to sysops. I have a problem with what I get when I first login each time. How do I report it?
Stan
write to [email protected] forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks F.G.,
I'm still figuring things out.
stan
Stan, I just happened to have seen that posted earlier in this huge thread. All in all, I think help is a little hard to find on this site. (I still like the forum though!)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks ForestGirl for helping Stan out. Yep Stan, that's the email. Good luck.
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
I'm glad to help out. Have an observation, though: Propspero is starting to look pretty bad, not being able to fix this problem. Where are they at with this?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie,
I don't deal with them on a day to day basis, so I have no idea. I'll ask Mark to post progress on what he and Prospero are working on. Meanwhile, if you have specific problems, pass them on to Mark.
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
To get back to the original reason for this post, I have not signed up with eight or nine identities. The odd thing is, I can now go back and use the first one (the one I really wanted). But sometimes it doesn't work, so I use one of the other identities.
But the bigger problem is that the search function does not appear to go back far enough. For example, there was a discussion here about jointers a few days ago, and I referred someone to another discussion I started a few months ago when I was having a lot of problems with my jointer technique.
Back when I posted my jointer discussion, I received a lot of wonderful advice from several people on proper jointer technique. Those comments are really useful, but they appear to be gone now! So if anyone needs similar advice, those same helpful woodworkers would have to re-post their comments. But that's unlikely, since those same skilled woodworkers seem to be less involved on this new forum.
This story really highlights, for me, why a search function/archive, is the heart and soul of a woodworking forum.
Indeed you're right Matthew. Let me do a search to see if I can pull it up and I'll see what I come up with. I'll be back with you tomorrow.
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
Tim, looks like the problem is not with the search engine but with a limitation on the number of allowable hits returned. For instance, I searched on Jointers and got 100 hits dating back as for as 4/2001. When I dropped the "s" and searched on Jointer I got a hundred hits with none dated further back than 2002. In otherwords, I hit the 100 hit limitation sooner in regards to time.
I tried to find a way to extend the number of hits but didn't see anything in the search feature or my preferences.
Steve - in Northern California
P.S. I also tried searching just the Archives but the results are the same.
Edited 6/17/2002 2:51:51 PM ET by Steve Schefer
Steve,
First off, I'm blushing, thanks for the kind words.
Earlier in this "thread" I believe I mentioned the fact that the "search" engine seems to be in love with the number 100. This was directed to Mark, he never did come back with a reply....
Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
Dano, 100 is the magic number... You found it first, I just confirmed it. Hopefully we got it to the right folks. I think Tim has his hands full. He tries to get to us when he can but his priorities seem focused elswhere. No offense Tim, its the way things have to be sometimes and I can definitely understand that. You can't work around the clock and still have a life.Steve - in Northern California
Why I don't like it and why you don't see me around much boils down to this:
In the old format I could wander in with my coffee cup on a break, click on the bookmark, up would pop the clear list of topics, I could see what looked new and interesting and go read it.
Now, (and this is on my new, fast computer and new, wicked fast DSL connection) I sit down, click on the bookmark, wait for a slow page to load, have to scroll all over it, can't really tell who is posting to what or whether anything is new and interesting, click on a topic (if I haven't given up already) wait for it to load, scroll all over the place trying to figure out whats going on...
Usually by this point sweeping the shop seems more fun....
Thats why this new format sucks.
Hotsawdust,
Hey, I miss hearing from you. You are one of those people I always assumed bowed out because of the technical failings of this new forum.
I agree completely. This new forum is way too heavy on technology and way too light on ease of communication.
I would also like to register my gratitude to the expertise of Dano and Sgian.
Dano and I have had our disagreements, but to me they are pretty superficial, and I never lose sight of the fact that he has a lot to teach me. As a good example, I recall one thread in which Dano challenged me about spiral upcut versus downcut bits. I'd suggest that people go back and search for it, but...well, never mind.
Sgian, you never fail to inform and amuse me. Whenever I read your posts, I feel like I am laughing and learning at the same time.
Edited 6/19/2002 11:28:19 AM ET by Matthew Schenker
Matthew, well I'm glad someone gets a bit of a hoot out of my inane drivellings. I don't think I'm passing on any pearls of wisdom here though. Just occupying band width. Slainte, RJ.RJFurniture
SEARCH PROBLEMS
I too had problems finding the post that Matt Schenker was looking for on jointers. I talked to Mark and he said that he and the folks at Prospero are going to RE-INDEX the database. They believe there are holes where data was not sufficiently indexed from the archives. I've never had a problem with this personally (until now) and I use it a lot. But, I'm glad they're doing it and you'll likely be glad too once it's finished.
This reindexing thing takes a while and unlike our PREVIOUS board, Prospero will do this type of work during our downtimes. Thus it may take several days. I'll let you know when it's re-indexed (hopefully next week!) and you can give a whirl.
OTHER NEWS
Mark has informed me that there has indeed been progress in producing a threaded message. They want to make sure it's as bomb proof as possible, so you won't see it tomorrow, but hopefully soon. This should help with some of the navigation problems. I do see threads in your future.
Thanks for giving us the feedback!
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
Steve,
I too have hit that ceiling and it is odd. I would be it's something we can adjust and I'll ask Mark to check it out.
It is true that I do not post a lot here--but I didn't post a lot on other board (for many reasons). But I can assure you all that I'm reading this stuff. A lot of time I'm forwarding things to Mark (which he just loves!) because it's beyond my abilities to solve it. As an editor, my full time responsibility is the magazine and we do travel a lot since we do all the photography for the articles. However, I do try to check in when I get back.
If, however, something seems to be escaping my attention, do not ever hesitate to drop me a personal email ([email protected]). I welcome it and will always respond.
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
Tim, thanks for the response. Say, why don't we take some of this load off of you by redirecting these threads over to the SandBox. I didn't realize that was what it was for as I am sure many others didn't either. I got a very quick response from Mark just a few minutes ago. Steve - in Northern California
That's a very good idea. The sandbox is Mark's own forum.
Tim____________Tim SamsAssociate Editor, Fine WoodworkingKnots Moderator
Tim, I'm glad to hear about the fixes that are coming, and I agree that the Sandbox is probably the best place for these "airings" to take place. The problem, however, is that it is not obvious how to get to the Sandbox from the regular Knots page. The more experienced users know how to get there, but the more experienced people aren't usually the one's trying to find it! This has been a glitch since the get-go.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Mr. Schenker,
Just had to drop a line and say how completely I agree with your take on new technology for its own sake. This problem is exactly what started going wrong with the Ford Mustang around 1968. It's also why I cant change the spark plugs in my new truck without taking it in and having a computer weenie clear the trouble code for me. I know these examples dont really have anything to do with woodworking per se, they just came immediately to mind. To me, more bells and whistles = more stuff that can go wrong.
Yeah Matt, I've had to change mine twice. I just go w/ the flow. I don't have time to try and figure out why. Good luck. John E. Nanasy
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