I’m painting a small project with oil-based enamel everyday using china bristle brushes.
The books say don’t leave a china bristle brush in thinner for more than 4 hours.
So I’m faithfully cleaning in thinner and then washing in soap and water my china bristle brushes each evening, spinning them with a brush spinner, combing them and then wrapping them in paper.
This is leaving me with a damp, bloated looking brush the next day.
Obviously, I’m not doing this right. What’s the right way to care for a nice china bristle brush that you are using everyday?
Mike D
Replies
I've had the same problem. Here are a few solutions:
1. Buy another brush. Use them on alternate days.
2. Hang the brush in front of a fan overnight.
3. Put the brush in the oven at the lowest heat setting. Warning: Even 250 degrees blistered the handle finish on one of my brushes.
O.K., that makes sense.
I'm at the point in finishing application that when I ask a question, the answer often makes me say "DOH!".
Mike D :)
there are any number of techniques for cleaning such brushes.
Here's mine:
I first rinse it out in paint thinner; using a brush comb, remove all the paint you can. Wipe the brush to get it reasonably dry.
Then, do the same in one or another of the proprietary brush cleaners. Any paint store will sell this stuff.
Finally, I then wash the brush with dishsoap under warm running water, again using the brush comb. Do this about 3-4 times.
I then fold a paper towel in half and wrap it around the brush -- just tight enough to keep the bristles in place. Use a rubber band (around the ferrule) to keep the towel in place, and hang it up to dry.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Mike, I agree with not keeping a brush in thinner, but recently I've been experimenting with storage in diesel ... yea I know it may sound crazy.
Here's a site Q/A page from a Epifanes, a company that produces quality marine products: http://www.epifanes.com/qanda.htm that discusses brush care.
Good luck !
Diesel fuel? Interesting site! Thanks.
He also says that kerosine will work as well.
I think that before I try it on my good brushes, I'll buy a cheaper china bristle brush and soak it in diesel for a while and see what happens. One thing that I'd worry about is the solvent effect loosening the bristles from their adhesive.
Mike
I paint with brushes that belonged to my Great Uncle... Three generations have been served by these brushes.
When I have a job that is going to take several coats over a few days all I do, after getting the bulk of the paint out of the brush by wiping it against the side of the paint can, is wrap the brush in saran wrap, or similar, and plunk it in the freezer. Works great.
Ahhh! The old Saran Wrap and Freezer trick! I thought that only worked for latex paints. I've used that lots for latex, and should have thought of it, myself.
Sometimes I overcomplicate stuff (or, according to my wife, I ALWAYS overcomplicate stuff - comes from being an engineer).
Mike D
Maturin.
Hummmmm. I'm literarily acquainted with a Dr. Maturin. He's an old sea dog, too, and best friend of a fellow named Jack, who's a wiz with a boat.
Any kin? :)
Mike D.
Ah, the good doctor. I was reading Ionian Mission at thirty some thousand feet, when I Dr Maturin expounded on teachers. Fabulous. "Have you ever known a schoolmaster fit to associate with grown men? The Dear knows I never have. They are most horribly warped indeed, the king of their company, etc, etc, etc. But curiously, this does not seem to apply to the role of tutor. Perhaps it's impossible to play the prima donna to an audience of one."
I was convulsed to the point that a flight attendant came to see if I was alright. I tried to read it to her, but couldn't, so I just pointed to the passage. She started laughing hysterically, but got herself sufficiently together to read the passage to the entire plane via the PA. I swear the tears were streaming down my face. I'd quote the whole of it, but I don't remember it, and I don't have it tucked away on this computer. I've actually quoted that passage, indicated the source as Stephen Maturin, Ph D, and my 'victims' never, ever, called my bluff.
All in all, an excellent series.
Back to paint brushes - I've never done that with latex as I figured it would be hours before it thawed out. For latex I either finish the job or, for something like a lunch break, use the fridge. I hate latex paint.
Edited 10/21/2006 11:00 am ET by EdHarrow
That's the guy! I'm presently in the beginning of The Yellow Admiral. At #18 and counting, O'Brian's accounts of Maturin and Aubrey have become like reading letters from old friends - good stuff! But when I cackle and snort at Stephen's wit, I've learned not to try to explain it to others - bemused looks are all that ensue.
What? Oh, yes - back to painting. Yep, Latex is indeed dreadful stuff! Never properly hardens, sticks to everything (like that window you would like to open, but which, instead, is become one with it's frame) and soaks up the occasional unfortunate greasy thumb print with eager resolve.
Mike D
My favorite incident involves Capt. Jack as the teacher of two young midshipmen. One asks him "Is it true that there is no procreation without fornication?"
Jack is dumbfounded - as usual in things not nautical.Frosty
Interesting that fornication found its way into a thread on cleaning paint brushes........... :)********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I was a memeber of KNOTS a few years back but fell out of touch during a move to a different state. When the dust settled and life returned to near normal, I had time to get back to the discussions. When I tried to sign on (about a year ago) I found my existing name/password was no longer valid. So trying to come up with some clever sign on name ... like Bill42 .... or Bill43 ... and finding them taken, I decided to use Dr Maturin's name from the Patrick O'Brian's series. I have to admit the few posts responding to that had me cracking up. I'm reading the Thirteen Gun Salute at the moment (though not 13,000 feet in the air like Ed)
As for brushes, I've tried the saran wrap and it works okay, but my daily routine never seems to be very 'routine' and a few days or weeks later, when I return to the project, I find I have another rather expensive brush that I can use to clean out the wood stove.
So I've cleaned my brushes with several 'washes' of thinner and then soap water. However I also have bristles break off once in a while, which tells me the bristles must be dry. So the diesel / kerosene makes sense to me. I'll feel better about making a solid recommendation after a few more months or so of working with it. Pam Wedd of Bearwood Canoe Company stands by this method...her site is http://users.vianet.ca/bearwood/
Hi Bill,
That's a great site, and it has 3 articles on painting which I'll be reading with interest.
Thanks,
Mike D
P.S. Re names, I was surprise when registering that the site accepted just "Mike" when asked for a handle. Then I wanted to revise my Knots "name" to Mike D when I discovered that there is at least one other Mike with that handle, but it seems it's hard to do - so I just sign mine "Mike D"
I was taught to rub a little Murphys oil soap into the bristles after cleaning, then shape, replace in the original wrapper and hang to store. Keeps it looking like new for a long time. My wife is more the single use, wrap in plastic, place in fridge and then in trash six months later.
I am a big fan of the Cap'n and Dr. Was a sad day I learned of O'Brians' passing. Have read through the series 3+ times and most of his other works at least once. Pick up something new each time and a good dose of Naval and world history at the same time.
Andy
Said least is often said best,
but said best is often said least.
I'm a fan of Murphy's soap. We used to have an old apartment with even older hardwood floors - a going over with Murphy's once a week actually made them look good - smelled clean, too.
Since I'm having a go at learning to paint cabinets with enamel (as opposed to wall paint on walls), I need to use these brushes every day. The best suggestion I've gotten so far is the old saran wrap and freezer trick. I'm trying it right now. Hopefully, tomorrow there'll still be bristles in the brush and the paint not hardened. Of course, I am tempting fate, since I haven't even rinsed them in thinner first.
On second thought, I'm going to reconsider and lightly rinse the little devils in thinner and THEN toss them back in the freezer (in a baggie, of course) - I paid some really good money for this set of bushes, and I too, have been guilty in the past of bagging a brush and throwing it in the freezer and then throwing it away six months later.
Just let it come back to room temp before you use it. They get kinda stiff. Good luck. Should work fine.AndySaid least is often said best,
but said best is often said least.
Oh ye of little faith.
Or still less, I see, LOL. Like I said, many of my brushes are THREE generations old, and some are irreplaceable, for good money or bad. Oh, and the same trick works for varnish brushes...
mike,
i learned to clean brushes from my father ,who---untill his stroke was a professional artist for approx. 60 plus years ( he put 6 kids through catholic school as a working,professional artist)
china bristles---to him would be pretty coarse and cheap ,as he had various sable brushes etc. he cleaned 'em all, i believe in progressive wahes of turpentine---and the LAST rinse he insisted be in CLEAN kerosene.
this worked so well---I know for a fact he owned brushes he had been using more or less constantly since the 1940's
Best wishes, Stephen
That's the cleaning technique recommended by Bob Flexner (UNDERSTANING WOOD FINISHES) -- that is, progresive rinses with mineral spirits. I think he uses 3 or even 4, each in its separate can. He doesn't use the kerosene, but this is not the first time I have heard that it works well as a final rinse.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
nikkiwood,
my dad felt that kerosine had just a bit of oil in it that kept bristles soft and rejuvenated after the rinses in turps.
stephen
It's hard to argue with 60 years of experience ............ :)********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Mike,
Your problem is twofold.
Problem one: China bristles, being from China boar hogs, are metric in nature. I suspect that from your description you are using imperial measurements of thinner to clean your brush. You should change to brushes made from bristles of pigs native to the good old USA, which is the leader in covering-up-related matters. Alternatively, measure the thinner out in ml's instead of oz'es--but then the gallon of thinner you bought won't come out even. Be forewarned.
Can you tell that I just read the metric thread?
Problem two: natural bristles, whatever their place of origin, don't take kindly to moisture. The same reason your lady is having a bad hair day, is the reason your bristle brushes are all bushy looking. After shaking the excess (clean) thinner out, wrap the clean brushes and hang til ready to use again. No need for the soap and water, after the thinner.
Regards,
Ray Pine
Of course! Metric vs imperial. Why didn't I think of that? Now things will get better.
I think that you are right regarding the soap and water - the brushes were definitely having a bad hair day. Wet, bloated, mush-like.
So, sticking with thinner seems the thing to do ...
... and yet ...
I have this great DVD, that I paid big bucks for, that shows an expert finisher washing his brushes in soap and water after the thinner. Darned experts will say anything to get themselves on camera. :))
Or, perhaps experts can afford not one but two sets of brushes, and therefore have the time to allow the wet-set to thoroughly dry before attempting to use them again.
Too rich for my blood - it's thinner and diesel fuel from now on!
Mike D
Well I never wrote about cleaning Great Uncle Dick's paint and varnish brushes...
I use Kwikeeze brush cleaner, two cans for each. One's 'dirty' and the other 'clean'. When the dirty one gets really dirty, the old 'clean' one becomes 'dirty' and a new 'clean' one is substituted. The brushes typically get an overnight soak in the first, the excess cleaned off into the respective can, and then a soak overnight in the 'clean' stuff.
After that they get a bath in hot, soapy water, and then rinsed in hot clear water until all signs of soap are gone. Then they get wrapped in newspaper and put away for the next time.
I have a friend who just wraps his brushes in newspaper and then stands them in a can of kerosene (but it might just be diesel) after he's cleaned them; one for paint and another for varnish.
YMMV
Edited 10/23/2006 10:02 pm ET by EdHarrow
Soap and water cleaning is fine and won't harm natural bristle brushes as long as the brushes are combed and then wrapped in a permeable covering so that they hold the desired shape until they dry. (You don't see many rain coats on hogs-- or oxen either.)
Steve,
Hogs around here are partial to a vapor permeable fabric for their raingear, called Boartex... Later on, about butchering time, the smart ones switch to kevlar headgear.
Sure, water doesn't harm bristles, just swells them up and makes them worthless for brushing with while they're damp. That's why I use synthetic bristles (oxymoron? but not ox) for latex.
If mineral spirits is the proper solvent for the varnish you're using (or alcohol for shellac), why clean the clean brush afterwards with soap and water, which will make it unuseable for the next couple days?
Regards,
Ray
OK, here's what I've learned.
Soap and water really does a good job of cleaning brushes, but the natural bristles absorb water, rendering the brushes useless for a couple of days until they thoroughly dry out. Then they are fine.
If you are going to use your brush again in the next couple of days - wrap it in saran wrap and put it in the freezer. Do give it a few minutes to thaw before using again.
If you are like me and plan on using your brush in the next couple of days - rinse it lightly in mineral sprits, shake it out, put it in saran wrap and put it in the freezer (gives you more time to get back to your project. However, be sure that you additionally put the brush in it's own sealed baggie so's your wife doesn't't say "(insert your full name here) DID YOU LET THIS PAINT THINNER DRIP ON THE ROAST THAT I WAS PLANNING TO COOK FOR SUNDAY DINNER??!!!" (this is never a good thing).
When the painting project is completed, a thorough cleaning is then in order before putting the brushes away.
One way is to do a couple of rinses in thinner, followed by much soap and water, followed by wrapping in paper to hold shape and allowing to dry for several days before using the brushes again.
Some folks that favor the soap and water cleaning method, but don't want to put up with the wait-while-drying period, prefer synthetic bristle brushes that don't absorb water. Good synthetic bristle brushes exist. Look for bristles made from Chinex, Syntox, and Taklon. These are fibers made specifically for fine brushes - i.e., they are tapered, and flagged (split ends). Some opine that Taklon is actually superior to China boar bristle and ox hair.
Another time honored way to clean natural bristle is to do several rinses in progressively cleaner thinner, and then store the brushes in clean kerosine, diesel fuel, or turpentine. Do this by drilling a hole in the handle next to the ferrule and suspending the brushes in a can of the above fluid of choice. Cover the can to keep basura out of the brushes whilst in storage. Don't knock over the can.
If you use method two, don't forget to rinse the kerosine, diesel fuel, or turpentine out of the brush before starting to paint again.
Regardles of the method used, a very useful cleaning tool is the brush cleaning spinner that you can pick up in the paint department of the home store. If you get one, pick up an empty 5-gallon plastic bucket to spin the brush in - you'll thank me. Do not fill the bucket with all the junk that you've already filled the other three 5-gallon bucket that you own.
Thanks for all the great responses!
Mike D
Mike,
After you rinse it several times in progressively cleaner thinner, you can wash it several times in progressively cleaner soap and water, then rinse it several times in alcohol, which being water loving will absorb any dampness after you spin it dry. Then you can...start painting again, 'cause it'll already be the next day.
This brush cleaning thread is taking on the character of some of the sharpening threads.
I'm gonna get one of those new frog bristle brushes, which don't swell with moisture (they're already wet)and put down a layer of finish that's well...finer'n frog hair.
Cheers,
Ray
Ray,I'd suggest you try one of the new carbon nano-tube brushes. Filaments even finer than frog's hair and has sufficient reservoir capacity and flow control that you can cover the equivalent of a 4x8 sheet of cabinet grade plywood only wetting the brush once.Only the finest,Jim"There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other is that heat comes from the furnace." - Aldo Leopold
Edited 10/24/2006 1:41 pm ET by JimV
Nano, nano! OK, you're right - maybe we are running this thread into the ground. I'll quit if the rest of you will.
Mike D :)
Mike,
<<I'll quit if the rest of you will.>>
Whoa no!!!! Don't stop now!!!! It's just starting to get interesting and fun. ;-)
From what I've heard, if you want the finest in brush fibres, then you want the pico-fibre brushes (The ones that have "Intell Outside" stamped on the ferrule). (Much much finer than Frog's hair, Ray -- sorry!) Apparently, they're made from recycled Panteeum XVI integrated circuits. I've been told that these will soak up a firkin of finish, never drip, come totally clean with a quick rinse under the sink nozzle, and, with 10 seconds under the hair dryer, they're dry and ready to use again. No freezing in plastic wrap or bags, no wasting perfectly good fish wrapper, soaking in turps, etc......
Dang!!! Modern technology is taking all the fun out of finishing and brush care......Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
Wow! Isn't it a small world.
My cousin's, wife's, aunt's, nephew works in that industry, and she says that she said, that she says that he said that that they are experiencing some delays releasing that model to production on account of the amazium used in the ferrule is experiencing hydrogen embrittlement, thereby degrading under the pressure of holding that much paint. It flys off the handle! Someone could get hoit!
Aint life fun?
Mikd
Mike,
Hey! Thanks for the update...I'm behind the times...I thought they were using Unrealium in the ferrules.; now they're using Amazium. What'll they think of next?Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
I see you've not heard of unobtainium. ;-)
Don't forget unobtainium's more well known allow, defraudium.
"There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other is that heat comes from the furnace." - Aldo Leopold
As it turns out, unobtitanium WAS specified by engineering.
However, ....
Corporate management decreed an at least a 5% per year "productivity" improvement goal, 1st bogie to be realized at least one quarter prior to product release.
In addition, Marketing (capital M) asked that it be noted that consumer research (target panel) clearly indicated that consumers generally prefer products that are "shiny".
The Joint Departmental Cost Reduction Team pushed forward the concept that chroming amazium (..."hydrogen embrittlement? What's that? Another engineering nerd word? Hah! Hah! Hah!"...) would make it much shinier than unobtitanium and cinched the argument with "chromed amazium comes in the door at a 7.5% overall material cost reduction compared to (relatively unshiny) amazium.
So the product was "value engineered" and taken to production using chromed amazium. Bonuses were paid out to the two grade 7 (Jr. VP) managers who each successfully claimed credit up their separate chain of command for the cost savings "realized" during the first quarter of production. They were subsequently promoted out of the paint-brush division. When the costs for the failing chromed amazium ferules came home to roost, the new product manager ate the recall cost in his budget (thus "missing his numbers") and he was quietly removed from the High Potential Managers list.
This discussion is now officially off track and "in the weeds". I wash my hands/brushes of it.
Mike D :)
Edited 10/25/2006 5:10 pm ET by Mike_D
I've been doing this for years with great success. I still use the first paint brush I bought in 1973. The trick is to use progressive washes in paint thinner (mineral spirits). You don't have to throw out the thinner. I have four 1 gallon bottles labeled 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rinse. You need a large paint bucket and funnel. Start with the first rinse and wash the brush. If paint is sticking to the bristle and ferrule, use a brass grill brush to remove the paint. Work your way through 4 rinses. Shake or spin gently the last of the paint thinner from the brush. When done, place the brush in its cardboard cover and hang vertically to dry.
DO NOT use water on a bristle brush!
Save the thinners and pour back into their respective bottles. It lasts a long time this way. All you need to do is replenish the 4th rinse occasionally with new. Eventually the 1st rinse bottle fills up with paint solids, they settle out to the bottom. When half of the gallon is full of paint solids, I start a new 4th bottle and move the other up one in my system.
The trick to making this easy and fast is a 5 qt. bucket to work in and a large funnel to pour the thinner back into the bottle.
If you do this, your brush will come out soft and free of paint. Works like a champ!
I like it. Thanks!
Mike D
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