Replies

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 07, 2002 12:37am | #1

   Never heard of it but it did interest me. Did a quick search on google and here's what I found (without digging too deep - there may be more info available)- http://www.scavm.com/Fulton.htm

   {edit} - note in the intro on this link that this guy has a book out on "Propolis Varnish" and a web site

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

   
   

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   Edited 9/6/2002 5:40:38 PM ET by Paul

1. 
   frenchafry | Sep 07, 2002 12:55am | #2

   thanks Paul I'm printing this out and will let my neighbor have a copy.

2. 
   BG | Sep 07, 2002 01:07am | #3

   Paul,

   Thanks, that was a very interesting link.  Last Sunday at church, the priest spoke about how the old violin makers used the north side of the tree because the wood on that side had withstood the most stress and was strongest for the violin....  you just never know where the tips are gonna come from... 

3. 
   RSRose | Sep 07, 2002 01:18am | #4

   Paul,

   Thanks. That link is fascinating. A description of varnish making. Less mysterious now.

   Rich

   Edited 9/6/2002 6:18:34 PM ET by Rich Rose

2. 
   Shepherd1800 | Sep 07, 2002 01:26am | #5

   Joey,

   Propolis, the sticky substance that bees glue their hives together is probably one of the secret ingredients of the old Cremonese Varnishes used for musical instruments.  It is partially soluble in alcohol and partially soluble in turpentine, so it can be extracted using either traditional solvent.  Mixed with copal, sandarac, elimi, catechu and or amber (also partially soluble in the above solvents) together with dragon's blood (sap from the palm (Daemonorops spp.)) to provide the nice red color were the traditional gums and resins used to make old varnishes.  Because the originating craftsmen protected their recipes these together with the famous or infamous 'Vernice Martine' have probably been lost to history.

    

   Stephen Shepherd

1. 
   frenchafry | Sep 07, 2002 08:19am | #6

   I also pulled info from a web site saying some of the things you brought up. Sounds very complicated for the amature(moi). Thanks for the info I'm building a small note book for my neighbor the bee keeper.

2. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 07, 2002 09:39pm | #7

   Stephen,

   Would I be correct in saying "You love wood?" Just wondering if you're the same person I'm thinking of.

   Thanks for your insight on the varnish. Have you ever had the opportunity to do any restoration on pieces from this period? Just wondering if you've learned the history out of need or personal interest.

   Can you recommend any good books on the subject?

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

1. 
   Shepherd1800 | Sep 08, 2002 01:23am | #8

   That would be me.  There isn't much written on the subject due to the secrecy of the old craftsman.

   Stephen

3. 
   RPAdams | Sep 08, 2002 04:39pm | #9

   Hello,

   I am a beekeeper as well as a woodworker and I have read about propolis used in fine instrument finishing.  Propolis can be collected from the hive usually during the late spring and summer.  It is collected by the bees, from the sap of trees, and worked by certain bees that are assigned the job of making the propolis.  They use it to seal holes, cracks and smooth out rough  surfaces.  If the hive is located a railroad track for example , they will produce more propolis to secure the frames from vibrating.  Some species of bees, such as the Carnolian produce alot of propolis.  When you work your bees, you have to cut through this to get the frames loose and and do your visual inspection.  Alot of it is scraped off and discarded, and this is a mixture of wax and propolis.  There is a item you can put in the hive to collect propolis.  It has several uses...cosmetic industry, medicial, health food, and used in wood finishing.  It is worth between $10.00 and $20.00 per oz.  Hope this helps, seems that I have seen some finish with propolis for sale in a catalog I receive...might be Garrett-Wade???...next time I see it I will post in this forum, so check back every so often or maybe I will be able to get some info from our bee club...Randy

1. 
   JAllen9301 | Sep 09, 2002 11:02pm | #10

   Wow. 10 - 20 bucks an ounce? Obviously it's worth it because of the high degree of work involved in obtaining it, but still....

   Hey, I have an idea for a finish made from cocaine, beluga caviar and 20 year old scotch.