We recently had an extensive remodeling done with 3/4″ maple wood flooring installed. My wife and I sanded the floor ourselves (to save money, as all good remodels will expand their costs). We thought it looked fine but the guy who laid the floor was not impressed. After reviewing the floor with him, our mistakes were glaring in their scope. We will probably have the professional sand and seal the floor. I was wondering if I could get through this winter by just paste-waxing the bare floor until the spring when the odors of the polyurethane won’t be as bad with all the windows open. I have two children under the age of 3 and I don’t want them around these fumes in a closed house. I don’t believe the flooring guy when he says that we can move back in after 2 days. I’m certain with the cold weather here that my wife won’t be opening many windows and the fumes will probably linger for a month. I was wondering if anybody had a possible short-term solution that would last me until may of next year.
Thanks
J. Pamulapati
Replies
jay, I think you have two issues here. First of all, I would definitely have a pro try to fix the sanding mistakes because they will be considerably amplified after the finish is applied. Another thing is this.. once you apply any wax to your floor it will have to be sanded again before it can be polyurethaned to get ALL the wax off. Not a good idea if you're planning on poly. As for the fumes.. you should have the floor polyurethaned at least twice and lightly sanded between coats. Three times is better. Don't let anyone tell you that one coat will suffice because of the quality of the poly. Because of the multiple coats of poly you're looking at being out of your house at least six days, but the fumes should not linger for more than two days after the final coat of poly if the windows are left open during the final drying. Hope this helps.
Bill
Jay, I would be concerned that wax might leave residues that would interfere with drying of the new finish, but maybe the new sanding job will eliminate any possible wax residues.
You may find solvent based poly finishes leave a troublesome odor but when I've used water based poly I've never had much odor problem. No solvents. The water evaporates and lets the finish cure and thats it.
BJ
Jay,
What were the sanding defects that your work left? Are you sure, now that they have been pointed out that you can't finish the job?
You really have no choice but to get the floor varnished now. Wax will NOT protect it until you can get around to finalizing the job. You will grind wax and dirt deep into the wood by using the floor without a protective finish. It will be much harder to resand it. Any kind of partial finish will need to be re-sanded later, and you'll still have grime deep into the wood.
Ditto on the recommendation for water borne poly. But make sure that the guy who does it really knows how to put it down, and that he sprays it, not rolls it on. You'll have no problem with fumes, but you need multiple coats and that means 7-10 days before you can walk on the floor.
R
Edited 10/21/2002 7:07:44 PM ET by Rich Rose
Hi Jay
First let me say I have been a hardwood-flooring contractor for 20 years in southern California.
I would use waterborne urethane. It does not yellow like oil, so on maple most of my clients prefer it. Have him show what both look like to help you make an informed decision. He can put 2 coats waterborne on in one day and then you can walk on it that night, with not too much smell. You could open up the house for about ½ hour and that will get rid of the smell. It’s really not that bad. Then turn on the heater that will help it dry.
1 coat sealer, 2 coats finish applied with an applicator made for waterborne.
I like Bonakemi Traffic.
If you don’t want to sand it now don’t wax it, just leave it raw or put a coat of sealer on it. I’ve hade raw floors sit for years and not hurt them.
Jeff in so cal
Jeff,
Apply a sealer, and no damage occurs from walking on it? Or do you mean by "sitting" that the floor got no use?
Ian,
What is a T Bar?I looked at some floors done here by roller with water poly. They were unacceptable. The finish went down and bubbled like crazy. A lot of it leveled, but it never looked good. Maybe the finisher didn't know how to put it down. He later showed us some samples that he sprayed. They were fine - no bubbles, but they were small samples, not actually a whole floor.
Why do you advise not to spray a floor?
R
Edited 10/21/2002 9:52:37 PM ET by Rich Rose
Rich,The T-bar applicator takes what looks like a split roller cover about 18" long but it doesn't rotate. A 'river' of waterbase is poured along one wall and the T-bar is dragged through it at an angle so that the waterbase is spread 18" wide and the excess pushed into the body of the floor. When you reach the end of the row you turn round and come back, spreading the excess 18" wide and so on -- cutting-in is done with a brush.Spraying a floor problemsOverspray on the baseboards, bottom of walls and your shoes. (Bear in mind the floor finish is usually applied after all other trades are finished except carpet laying)Almost impossible to keep a wet edge across a floor, especially with waterbase.The movement of air will dislodge fine dust particles left from the sanding which are stuck to wall surfaces, etc. into the coat.Coat will be applied too thinly.I can do it with an applicator in half the time -- with a roller in the same time.Of these problems, the movement of air is the most important -- when I did a floor I taped over all vents, openings, etc as if satin waterbase is allowed to dry unevenly it results in differing gloss levels across the floor.
Ian,
Thanks for that. We've been having a lot of problems with Water borne due to bubbling. No matter what kind of applicator. No matter how carefully we treat the can before using it. Maybe it's the weather. Maybe it's the phase of the moon.
It may be the way the stuff is handled in shipment before it reaches Hawaii. Time to try another new brand.
R
Edited 10/21/2002 11:35:40 PM ET by Rich Rose
Rich,It could be the weather but a really good source for enquiries about problems with floor finishes is Here at Floormasters International.
Thanks.
I spent a good two hours at this site. It had answers to a lot of my questions.
Jay,
Don't, on any account, wax the floors if you intend to coat them with anything but wax. Even if you sand after waxing you will still get problems because the friction heat from sanding tends to liquefy the wax and drive it deep into the structure of the timber.
Water-based polyurethane is practically odor free, non-yellowing and easy to touch-up or re-coat but it has one drawback -- it doesn't bring out the color and figure of the timber the way oil-modified urethane does.
Rich
Never spray a floor, especially with waterbase -- I always used a T-bar applicator for the first 3 coats of waterbase and a roller for the final coat -- 4 coats is best, by the way.
four coats of waterbased polyurethane
with a satin finish.
The timber is Messmate
(Eucalyptus Obliqua)
Ian, weren't you the one from whom Splintie learned floor finishing. She posted a really great tutorial with photos from that project. Did we loose that post when Prospero took over. Maybe someone can find it. It was a perfect tutorial for willing learners like Jay.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland
Bee Jay,The post is on view at my site here or it can be downloaded as a PDF file from this locationIf people are sufficiently interested, I can post it again as a thread in the Gallery.Incidentally, if anyone is contemplating using waterbase, be aware that it takes about 10 days to fully cure and bond with the previous coat, so use soft shoes and don't stick masking tape to the floor for that period.
Edited 10/21/2002 11:24:40 PM ET by IanDG
My wife and I did the same thing. Installed an oak flor, sanded it, and then applied three coats of waterborne poly using a synthetic applicator. It looks fantastic. No fumes, 3 coats in less than 24 hours, moved back into the room the next day.
If you messed up the sanding, get one of the big rectangular random orbit floor sanders. Go over the floor again using a progression of grits and then move on to the finishing. We went from installed to finished in two days, back in the room on the third.
Good luck!
daddyman,
What product did you use? And which applicator?
R
"What product and which applicator?"
Pro Finisher by Parks (Satin) and a synthetic pad applicator on a pole. Both were obtained in the Rental Department of the local Home Depot. Using the pole was great. I was able to finish the entire floor from a standing position. This was really important after spending a few days on my knees removing the old floor and installing the new. The applicator was very similar to a pad paint applicator, with a thicker foam backer. If memory serves, about $12 for the whole setup.
The fumes from the finish were virtually non-existent. Latex paint is far worse.
Don't be so hard on your sanding. Remember, this is not a piece of heirloom furniture. You look at it from a standing position and, if you have kids, or are as clumsy as I am, in no time you will have accumulated enough "character" marks that a few sanding imperfections won't matter.
Couple of tips:
After sanding - vacuum everything in the room. Walls, ceilings, window sills, windows, etc. Wait an hour or so, change your clothes, then wipe down the floor to remove the last specks of dust. Don't use a tack rag with waterborne finishes. We used alcohol soaked rags.
Between coats, sand lightly with sanding screen. We used the same 120 grit screen that we used for the final sanding before the first coat. Seemed to have enough grit to do the job without cutting through the finish. Then use the same routine for removing the dust as described above.
As someone else in this thread mentioned, it is tough to keep a wet edge with this stuff. I used the puddle and drag technique the other poster described. Plan your moves to avoid getting caught in a corner. My wife kept the paint tray moving and I could focus on the finish. We put the finish down in June when it was quite warm and dry, so we had to move fast. Even so, the finish seems to be rather forgiving. I know there are some spots where we lost the wet edge, but I can't find any lap marks in the finished product.
Go For It
Edited 10/22/2002 8:25:07 AM ET by daddyman105
I think your contractor is right. Two days should be plenty of time. I have used the Minwax quick-drying poly on HW floors, which is solvent-based, not water-based. Got three coats down in one day. Light traffic aftyer 24 hours. Virtually odorless after 48 hours. So I imagine a water-base poly would be fine for th kids by day two. Nick
Did your floor look this bad? ;-) This was actually midway through a refinish of a VG fir floor that I suspect was original to the house (c. 1910). The chatter was caused by a drum sander. To rectify this, I used a U-Sand orbital sander which uses (4) 6" disc in about a 16-18" square. Go to U-sand.com and they will list places in your area which rent it. It is much slower than using a drum, but it is a great machine for novices to use since it is hard to screw things up. It was recomended to me by a guy who uses one as his edging and finish tool for hardwoods. In my picture, I just needed to do alot more sanding, but the picture does show how the machine creates a very flat surface even on a very wavy floor.
I forgot to mention the chatter damage was POD (previous owner's doings). They either stained the floor with the uneven wavey surface, or the finish really yellowed to create all the dark stripes. But it be nice and even now, except for the deep gouges, also POD.
Edited 10/22/2002 4:06:38 AM ET by wood
Thank you for all your comments. I found them to be useful. I will probably sand our floors a couple more times with 80 grit and then 120 grit using the big 12" by 18" random orbital sander from home depot. Our flooring guy concerns were the swirl marks left in the floor after the 80 grit, the fine cracks between boards not being filled, the burn marks left in the wood from the planer, the pink wax used to mark boards not being sanded off. I think that a few more passes with the sander would take care of most of his problems with our sanding job I read a few books on finishing a floor before we started. Personally I thought the floor looked very good. It didn't look as bad as the one posted by "Wood". I have to replace two furnaces in my house now (it never ends), so I will probably just wait until the spring to seal and protect with the water-based poly. My kids having been rolling around the house in their scooters and tricycle and I haven't noticed any damage. My only concern is the kitchen, which by it's nature has a lot of moist spills. I will try to experiment with putting a few coats of poly over a weekend while the kids are with their grandparents. I will try to post pictures of the floor later. Once again thank you to everyone who has posted a response to my enquiry.
Take the kids to the mother in laws place for the weekend or to the hotel with the pool. I tried the same sanding mess and had marginal results as well. The smell won't be that bad compared to a diaper.
To top off our version of sanded maple in the kitchen, we tried to pickle the floor then top coat it with Pacific Strong. Beautiful stuff that PS. But the reason you don't wear street shoes on a hardwood basketball court has more to do with the finish than the marks. It seems the stuff is really abrasion resistant, but much like steel that is hard, it also is brittle. All you had to do is drop a can of soup and the stuff chipped off. Oh yes the instructions my wife followed to a tee. You are supposed to wash it with vinegar rather than harsh soaps. Yes vinegar on whitened maple makes it dark. Unfortunately the palimino kitchen floor is not a style Martha Stewart has yet approved.
This is a job for a pro with a touch for those sanders. You don't save that much anyway by my experience. Make the cabinets instead.
Tape sheets of luan over it. they are cheap and will take all sorts of damage, build crates out of it in the spring.
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