Protective finish for desk over Danish oil
So I’ve been working on a computer desk that I will be using daily since I am now working from home.
I am extremely pleased with the results so far. I have used sapele veneer over 1″ Baltic birch plywood. I’ve attached an image of what is looks like so far. Funny thing is I’ve transformed my kitchen table into a workshop, since I have no other suitable place to work. My wife has patiently put up with it, but she’s starting to get restless, it’s been about a month and a half since I commandeered the kitchen table in the name of woodworking.
So here’s my question. I have applied danish oil, about 3 – 4 coats and since this will be used daily and hold computer monitors, hot and cold drinks, I am considering putting a couple of coats of wipe on poly over top. I have tried it out with a couple of scrap pieces with two finishes, glossy and semi-gloss. I’m not totally over the moon about the appearance of either of those finishes for a couple of reasons, a) they’re a bit shiny and b) it makes it look a little plasticy. I was wondering if anyone else has any experience with poly over danish oil and if I should rather go with a stain finish. Also, I am super impressed with the smoothness and feel of the finish I have achieved so far with Danish oil and I’m worried that I might ruin the finish.
Also I have read conflicting opinions on how long to wait before applying poly over danish oil. I have read anywhere from 72 hours to weeks or months.
Looking for any advice or suggestions…
Mike
Replies
The ship sailed on applying stain when you sealed the veneer with the danish oil, but the top is too pretty to stain so it's a good thing. Also, stain is not a finish, just a colorant.
Danish oil is an "in" the wood oil finish, poly is an "on" the wood film finish. You'll have better protection with the poly, but if you can use coasters for the drinks you might be fine with the danish oil.
When I finish with danish oil I wait two or three times what the can says and then I wax/rub with 0000 steel wool and paste wax. A final buff to get the steel bits up and it's good to go.
Oops, re-reading my post, I meant to say satin not stain. Yeah I wouldn't dream of putting a stain on that surface, since it's nicely coloured already.
Interesting suggestion about the paste wax. Does that offer any protection beyond the danish oil I already applied or is it more for adding a sheen and smoothing the finish.
Danish oil is a fine finish, I have 4 coats on my teak dining table and see no reason to re-finish after a couple years daily usage, It will eventually require a maintenance coat or two to clean up the scratches and uneven wear but so far, it is holding up very well.
I have never had any problems putting poly over danish oil after about 48 hours. And, as has been said, the poly will provide a bit more durability. Gloss, semi, or satin is just a matter of taste. I usually use semi gloss and I don't feel that it looks too plasticy, but I would encourage you to try satin before you make a final decision. Also, as said above, there is nothing wrong with using just the danish oil. It is a fine finish and your desk looks great. Just be prepared to use a little more care and re-new the finish with an additional coat of oil every couple of years or as needed. I would be reluctant to put any wax on it for that reason. It will have to be removed before you apply a maintenance coat of oil.
Thanks everyone for your advice. I'm glad I took the time to post here and I'm glad I didn't rush in to applying poly over top. I think I will stick with the danish oil finish as suggested. I may apply one more coat with the wet sand method. Just had a thought though, has anyone tried mixing danish oil with a bit of fast drying poly (like this product https://www.rustoleum.ca/product-catalog/consumer-brands/varathane/oil-based-clear-finishes/professional-clear-finish-ob), maybe at a ratio of 2 parts danish oil to one part fast drying poly. It would seem that this would provide a slightly more resilient finish than with danish oil alone.
I have not tried mixing poly with danish oil. But I have used an old time mix of equal parts mineral spirits (or turpentine), varnish (could be poly), and linseed oil (or tung oil). This is very similar to danish oil, but you can vary the mix to get faster build (more varnish). This mix is wiped on with cloth or piece of paper towel and should go on very thinly. I can't say whether this mix will provide more durability than danish. My guess is that it would be minimally better. I strongly suggest you experiment before trying in on your existing finish.
A good quality wax is another option over danish oil
danish oil is a mixture of oil (BLO) and varnish, not just a straight oil, so you've already have some varnish on it.
I put water base poly over danish oil and the poly cracked....I waited 2 days before doing the poly. If you applied danish oil liberally, I’d wait months before applying poly because danish oil take a long time to cure
Waterlox.
Danish Oil is a marketing term, with the end product being anything that a manufacturer wants it to be. Typically a mixture of tung oil, boiled linseed oil and varnish (which itself has no standardized content or definition). Danish Oil and Waterlox, perhaps Watco, as well, can have drying times longer than the construction time, if you 'flow' or 'flood' the surface... as some manufacturers recommend. I've learned to stay away from the stuff; even though, it does look good when you first apply it.
Oil-based products are historical. While they look good in a glassy smooth way, they will yellow over time and do require refreshing over time (which never gets done, frankly).
My prospective solution is to use a Sealcoat-type product to pop the grain, and provide a stable basis for the top finish - which I recommend be a waterborne Acrylic product (Deft or General Finishes). This solution provides tough, crystal clear, and fast predictable drying.
Mdorsam wrote exactly what my experience has been. I don't bother with oils any more. Just not worth the trouble. I refinished too many pieces because it is too fragile. Now I use two coats of Zinsser Sealcoat, and two coats of general finishes high performance in whatever sheen I'm after.
Coats are as thin as I can make them.
Great stuff everyone. So On Saturday after hemming and hawing, I decided to try and top coat with Watco wiping poly. I had made my own wiping poly but didn't like the look. I tested it on a couple of small sample pieces that I had applied danish oil to earlier in the finishing process. The result turned out okay so I decided to proceed with the desktop. This was a mistake. The danish oil had not cured enough and gummed up when sanding. I managed to scratch the surface significantly. At that point I was a bit stressed out, but what I did was to wet sand with mineral spirits to fix the scratches and then I applied a very thin coat of danish oil (wet sanded with 600 grit then 1500 grit sandpaper) to bring back the shine... This seems to have worked out well and the surface is super smooth. That said it's now two days later and I'm still wiping off small and I mean tiny, spots of oil that have been popping through the finish.
I am now committed to leaving it as is. I may apply poly over top, but as user-2823298 stated it can take months to fully dry. So I will wait till it is completely dry and consider it only then, that could be 6 months that could be a year. In the meantime I will use the desk once it's dry enough where I feel comfortable that I won't ruin it with light use.
So I learned a lot in this process, the hard way of course. (Is there really any other way) I will definitely consider other options on my next finish rather than danish oil, as it is not as easy to get a good finish with as one would think.
Cheers all...
Mike
Next time you wetsand, use a fluid that is NOT the solvent for your finish. The danish oil is 'wetter' now, and the mineral spirits is probably causing the bleeding spots.
That's interesting and it makes sense. Good advice, next time I'm in that position I'll use a different solvent.
Thanks...
swedish_meatball:
It's why we're all here... The real issue is that there are too many individuals who do one or two projects, then feel empowered to review tools and recommend products and techniques. As a consumer of information, it's hard to determine which advice to follow, and how to integrate different perspectives. I've been at this a long while, and each day is a journey.
Wow. I'm pretty new to all of this, with only one live edge cherry sofa table done. I finished that one with 4 coats of Danish Oil, and I'm over the moon about how it turned out.
Now I'm finishing up a red oak coffee table with very dark epoxy (gray bordering on black) poured into a massive knot hole and channel.
I was agonizing over which way to go as the table will be higher maintenance and see coffee/drinks, but I think I'll stick with the Danish Oil. I had planned to apply some satin poly over it, but for now we'll try just the oil, with lots of cure time.
Cheers all.
If the wood looks good at this point I’d probably consider a glass top. Some plastic bumpers to keep it off the sapele.
Once you are working and have work things all over the top you’ll never see it again anyway 😀
Speaking as someone who has been remote working for most of the past three decades.
Mike
The can says Danish Oil or Danish Oil Finish? When the can says " finish" its no longer just an oil, it's a FINISH. Since I've never seen something called Danish Oil I'm going to assume its a finish. Its been polymerized in some proprietary way with varnish maybe and drying agents and well you never know. It's complete in itself and doesn't require a top coating. Since from brand to brand you don't know the chemical make up you don't know except through trial and error or possibly by reading the back of the can what would be compatible with it. I like Danish Oil finish , its simple and fast and gives good results. I usually just wax over or nothing. When time matters its a go to product for me.. I like oil based varnishes but they do require some work, ----actually a lot of work! Shellac is my favorite,on furniture, and not from the can, it gets better with age I think and is easy(er) to repair but it doesn't like to get wet. I'm not a big fan of waterborne finishes but I did try a wiping varnish over Danish Oil and I was underwhelmed with the result. Finishing can be daunting , there are so many options and can take longer to do than the project took to build. Once you figure out what works for you its probably best to not mess with it ! There are all these tempting new things coming along all the time with promises of easy perfect results, maybe some do do that but you can ruin a good thing with a splash of the wrong stuff.
I second the person who said not to wax over the Danish Oil finish. It will water spot badly, and will need to be removed before any recoating.
It's been a long time since I used Danish Oil (Watco brand). I was underwhelmed, esp. after trying Waterlox Original. It is officially a wiping varnish, and penetrates like a DO with the first coat, then starts to build with successive coats. The Waterlox web site has pretty good instructions for using it, tho practice sure helps. They have some gloss & semi-gloss top coats that can be used for the final coats, or the Original gives a nice satin finish. There is a recent article in FWW about using it, and waiting for a while before rubbing it out.
All good advice. My 2 pennies worth - wet sand with 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper then 1200 grit. Wet sanding with oil leaves a nice soft feel & semi-glossy finish.
You can find "wet sanding with oil" in the library section on Highland Woodworking's site.
Mikaol
I don't want to hijack a thread, but I was debating a similar finishing strategy of 2-3 Watco DO, followed by 2 coats Zar self leveling oil base poly for interior cherry windows, casements and baseboards. If this needs a separate thread, I apologize. I have 6 Andersen windows and will do test pieces, I am not spraying because of the grids and the windows are installed. I am in San Diego, so not too frigid. Most applications I read about do not consider wear and tear. I also have baseboards and casements to finish in the same rooms. I like the warmth of the oil and decided only recently that I should finish with poly. Thank you!
Typical "danish oil finishes" are roughly 70-75% solvent, a small amount of poly or varnish if you prefer and less than 10% oil. These products are fine but you should know what you're buying a very thin wipe-on poly with a bit of oil. Many try to make their own with a 1:1:1 method of BLO poly and some solvent of choice. These may work but they're a waste of oil mainly.
Once cured it's just a thin poly finish, you can put any other Oil-based top coat over it.
Just to throw something out, couldn't you shellac over oil? Unless you are planning on using the piece for alcoholic drinks, shellac can be built up to quite a durable finish. And you can also poly over shellac. I can't say I've tried the shellac over oil, but have definitely put water-based poly over shellac. Just today, in fact. Works well. But I'm pretty sure I remember my instructor saying you can shellac over tung oil. I was afraid of shellac for a long time, but it turns out to be quite easy and forgiving to use if you just pay attention.
Thank you for the reminder about the composition of DO. It makes a good point.
I do like shellac for its color and "repairability", but I don't see it quite as durable for the windows. I have a little concern about using it on a sliding window. I wouldn't want a chance it guming up. Maybe a false concern, since we are in SD, but I have heard it isn't happy with humidity.
I have used the Zar oil based poly on a few other projects and so far it performs well and dries quickly.
Yeah, I don't think I'd use it on a sliding part either. I've never had issues with gumminess with shellac, but I think it would likely wear away in a sliding part.
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