Replies

1. 
   OneofmanyBobs | Apr 25, 2004 02:04pm | #1

   Shellac is the finish.  It doesn't need protecting.  If you want a finish other than shellac, use a different finish.  If you used dewaxed shellac, virtually any other finish can be applied directly on top.  If you used waxy shellac, you need a wash coat of dewaxed before attempting polyurethane or some oil varnishes.  8 or 9 coats of shellac with some other finish on top is too much finish. 

1. 
   Biscardi | Apr 25, 2004 03:00pm | #2

   Allan,

   If you keep a nice coat of wax on it, it gives you enough time to wipe up anything that spills before it causes harm. Your biggest problem will be a hot dish that leaves a white circle. Schellac is tougher than people would have you think

   If you look in the back of magazines like Architectural digest, Southern Living etc., you will find advertisements for a company called  (I think) Sentry. For about $150 you can have a custom made pad that is heat resisitant and goes under the table cloth. That way you can display the table when not entertaining and keep it safe in use.

   Frank

2. 
   Alan | Apr 26, 2004 03:12am | #3

   Allan (do you know you spell your name incorrectly?)

   As the others have said, you have too many coats to call it just a sealer/undercoat. 

   Also, as others have said, shellac is not nearly as fragile as lots of folks believe.  Put a coat or two of a good hard wax on top and you'll be all set.

   I cook up my own wax.  I make it from carnuba wax with just enough bees wax to make it easier to apply and buff out, mixed with turpentine to keep the concoction soft enough.

   Wax over shellac is one of my favorite finishes.  I love the soft glow of wood finished this way; and shellac comes available with so many hues I often use shellac as the colorant (i.e., there's no need for stain or dye).  But I understand your concern about its durability.

   Shellac will work fine under any finish I'm familiar with--so long as you use the de-waxed variety when necessary.  But, again, with 10 or 11 coats I think you're already committed.

   Me?  I think I'd just wax the piece and see how it goes.  So long as you use a trivet and wipe up any spills before you go to bed, it ought to cause no troubles.  But if you do acquire a blush or an alcohol spill has eaten into the finish, both are easily fixed.

   Alan (spelled correctly)

   Milton: "white chief gottum new squaw?"

   WC Fields:  "new is right; she hasn't been unwrapped yet."  From "My Little Chickadee."

1. 
   Avermeylen | Apr 26, 2004 07:26am | #4

   Yeah well, "horse for courses" I think they say!

   Methinks you may be mistaken my friend, or perhaps a tad on the easy going side. Simply add an "L" and you have the definitive Allan.

   Onwards and upwards, about shellac. Thanks for the tip. As you all seem to know much more than I do allow me to pick your brains a little more.

   The product I bought from liberon was called sanding sealer, which a local furniture maker claimed was shellac. It's milky in colour and seperates when left a little while.

   Applies with a cloth, dries instantly and brings out a beautiful finish, but IT IS SOFT. Drop a set of keys on it and they scratch the surface. I made my own shellac as per the instructions in FWW a few months ago, using golden flakes, but the shellac is too dark. It imparts almost an orange colour. The Liberon dries a light gold colour.

   Is there something I can add to my shellac which will cause it to go milky, or at least impart less of a dark colour? As always to all who responded many thanks for your inputs. 

   Allan - North Narrabeen, NSW, Australia

1. 
   Gretchen | Apr 26, 2004 03:36pm | #5

   You can wipe on a varnish finish to protect your "shellac" finish--whatever it is. Use a non-poly varnish such as Pratt & Lambert #38. Dilute 50/50 with mineral spirits and wipe on a minimum of 3 coats--it will dry quickly so this is not a big deal.  You probably need to do it only on the table top.  This will protect from unattended spills.Gretchen

1. 
   PeteBradley | Apr 27, 2004 12:35am | #6

   Remember that if your finish is shellac-based, it's still heat sensitive even with varnish over it. I did some tests a while back with a shellac/varnish finish, and it was durable and spill-resistant, but it would easily mar if you drag something hot over it.

   I was using the shellac for color and depth on some tiger maple, so I only had two coats of shellac for these tests.

   Pete

2. 
   Avermeylen | Apr 27, 2004 03:51am | #8

   Thanks for that Gretchen,

   "wipe on" varnish?

   Having come from a nautical background I've never conceived of wiping on varnish, just brushing it.

   Is it easy to do? In Aus we can't seem to get the same range of products that are available to you in NA.

   What kind of material would I wipe the varnish on with, very soft I imagine? Will it streak? I pride myself on being able to brush on without leaving any brushmarks (probably not a great claim to fame).

   I feel that I am getting closer to the answer to the question though. Many thanks

   Allan - North Narrabeen, NSW, Australia

1. 
   Gretchen | Apr 28, 2004 02:30pm | #10

   You can make your own wipe on varnish. I use non-poly varnish for its greater depth (in my opinion) and adherence properties.  Just thin varnish 50/50 with mineral spirits.  You wipe it on with a rag or the shop style paper towels.  Literally just wipe on--don't over work. Let it dry to non-tackiness and repeat.  You can often put 3 coats on in a day. The first couple of coats will not look particularly good but persevere.  6-8 coats will give you a nice durable finish. Gretchen

2. 
   Alan | Apr 27, 2004 03:04am | #7

   Allan (still wrong)

   I don't know what you bought as a "sanding sealer" but it doesn't sound like shellac to me, it sounds more like lacquer (I'm not very well acquainted with lacquer though).  If you've mixed your own shellac you know what it looks like (I'm assuming you made yours from flakes).

   As for the color: it sounds like you got orange shellac, which is (SURPRISE!) orange.  Orange shellac is what you usually get pre-mixed in a can.  But shellac comes in several colors, from a very dark "seed lac" up to a not-quite clear "blonde" shellac.

   If what you applied is an orange shellac, putting something else into it, or on top of it, will not solve your problem.  The color will still be there, though mixed with some other color.  There's the danger that the color you get will look worse than what you have.

   The good news is you should be able to remove most--but not all--of the shellac with some denatured alcohol, 0000 steel wool and lots of paper towels.  Apply the alcohol generously, rub with the steel wool, and mop up with the paper towels.  (N.B.  the towels are a candidate for spontaneous combustion.)  But with 10 or 11 coats it might take a while and enough alcohol to lubricate a frat party.

   Alan

   "You chilren should be ashamed of yourselves, hanging around here all day, reeking of pop-corn and lolipops."  WC Fields

3. 
   AlbionWood | Apr 30, 2004 07:01pm | #14

   The milky stuff you got from Liberon might be Vinyl Sanding Sealer, which is used mainly under lacquers and varnishes.  Shellac is a great sealer and easy to sand, but it's not milky when mixed.  As you discovered, vinyl sealer is not a finish.

   I did some experiments with shellac recently and found that, contrary to the conventional wisdom, shellac is virtually impervious to water, beer, or wine - unless it is hot.  The infamous "white rings" developed only when a mug of something hot was allowed to sit in a wet spot for a while.  Shellac is better than you think, and even if it does get damaged it is easier to repair than most finishes.

   I'd recommend you wax it as others have recommended, and see how it holds up.  It won't be any more difficult to remove the shellac in a year or two than it is now... I don't know why you would want to strip shellac off, but if you do, try using ammonia instead of alcohol.  I haven't done it myself, but Tage Frid says it works and it's a lot cheaper.  But shellac is so easy to sand that I would just sand to a smooth surface and wipe on varnish or poly."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

3. 
   stephengaal | Apr 27, 2004 11:59pm | #9

   Allan:

   I make period reproduction furniture.  For the most part, shellac is the finish.  There are plenty of antiques many hundreds of years old with very lovely shellac finishes.  I always wax the pieces and suggest regular waxing.  I use Goddard's.

   Now, for a table top that will be in heavy use and subject to spills, etc. I put on a coat of a polyurethane over the shellac.

   This is exactly what a large reporduction furniture company does with their pieces.

   Stephen J. Gaal

1. 
   Biscardi | Apr 29, 2004 06:25pm | #11

   Stephen,

   Before you put the poly on, do you do anything to the shellac surface like scuff sanding? Is that unnecessary?

   Frank

4. 
   Crunk | Apr 29, 2004 06:38pm | #12

   Paste wax, preferably a high-Carnauba content wax like Liberon Professional's Wax although I hear it is no longer in production.

5. 
   billballeza | Apr 30, 2004 12:57am | #13

   Renaissance wax. Google it to learn more and where to order.

   There is simply no better way to protect tabletops from alcohol.. or anything else.

6. 
   Paul_Snyder | Apr 30, 2004 11:47pm | #15

   Allan,

   Liberon carries a vinyl sealer, but it doesn't have any relationship to shellac and it's not suitable as a finish. There's also a maximum recommended thickness that is achieved by applying 1-2 coats. There's an article on sealers at this link - <a href="http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00001.asp&quot; target="_new">Sealers</a> - that has more info on the subject.

   <p>What is the name on the container of sealer you used? If it is vinyl sealer, I'd sand it back until you start cutting through to the wood and then apply a varnish. Varnish works fine over vinyl sealer as long as the sealer is not too thick.

   Paul