I am taking a look at the Festool system and have a few questions:
First, the saw comes with a 55″ guide rail but obviously it is not long enough for ripping sheets of plywood – I don’t understand why it does not come with a rail long enough for that – do you then recommend getting the 42 inch guide rail as an additional guide, joining together for ripping full sheets or is there som benefit to having two 55 inchers or just on 55 inch guide that comes with the saw?
When operating can you hook up your existing shop vac to the system? I like the matching dust extractors they sell but for an extra 300 – is it really worth it?
I need a dust collector for the tablesaw as well- can one of these dust extractors be modified to do the job – can I get a dust extractor for my dust collection needs or should I get a dust collector and use my existing shop vac to hook up to the ATF55.
I realize these may be dumb questions but I am trying to figure out wat is most cost effective – your comments are appreciated. Thanks, Tom
Replies
Tom,
to start with the last questions first: the vac doesn't have the cfm to pull the table saw( I'm guessing your dustport is 4-6"). rule of thumb, 3" dia or less use a good vac approaching 90-100" static lift, and 3" dia and above go with a dust collector. ie, fine dust + small port= vac, chips+large port=DC.
here is another possibility for your first question. if you already have a circular saw, take a look a the ez-guide from eurekazone. it comes with two rails of 50" that connect for 100". I have one and don't have room for a table saw. the ez is my 'ts'. I get good smooth cuts. I like it.
anyway, I know you asked a 'green' question, but that was my non-green, or maybe less green ($) answer. Matt should be along in a while with the complete green story.
jericho
I hve posted before about options for doing what I want but now I am looking at Festool an would appreciate hearing from festool owners on my questions. Thanks.
go ahead Tom, we'll try to keep it green from here on out.
jericho
Tom..
I have the atf, the 42" and the 55" and think that they are a great combination. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. I have used them so much more than I thought that I would, they have proved to be a highly valued tool set.
I like having both length fences - you'll find that both have their place, the 55" is pretty unweildy at times and you'll find yourself using the 42" for things other than just ply.
My only slight grumble is the depth of cut - both setting it (scale is metric) and the deepest cut depth has limited me on occassion, but I do try to do off the beaten track things with my tools at times.
I didn't purchase the vacumm, but did get the hose as test fit proved that it would hook up well to my Fein. The dust collection is great. I would not recommend trying to hook up a shop vac to a table saw, but I'm no expert.
It will be money well spent.
Cheers
Alison (formely indigo1557)
Tom,
Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. Believe it or not, I was actually working in the woodshop with my Festool tools!
Anyway, I use the AT55 along with two 55" guide rails and a connector. When I'm ripping full sheets, I connect the rails up. When I'm working with smaller sheets, I just use one, which is better. Also, it's a lot easier to store two 55" rails than one 106" rail.
I own the CT22 dust extractor. It's quiet, strong, has adjustable speeds, and it goes on and off with the tool. It also has a neat bag-changing system -- everything stays clean and organized inside the machine. For me, all of this is worth the money, especially if you get it in a package deal. The package deals Festool is offering now are really nice.
I owned a Fein dust collector before I had the Festool. The Fein is definitely a good vacuum. But for me the Festool is better.
Before you buy Festool tools, it's great to ask questions. There is a lot about these tools that is not obvious at first glance.
If you haven't done so already, join the Festool Owners Group. You can ask all the questions you like there, and people will happly answer them (no such thing as a dumb question)!
Here's a link to the group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FestoolOwnersGroup/
See you there.
I am also a Festool convert. They will change how you do your woodworking. I know that sounds odd, but it's really true. The AT series circular saw can do things that a regular saw can't. It can flush cut right off the bat, you can add extenders for the guide system to cut any length. The vac system is far better than anything, maybe a bit better than Fein, but the bag and filter removal is light years ahead.
I think Festool is geared for either a woodworker who can afford the best, and a professional woodworker and carpenter, where time is money. The setups and completion cuts with Festool is so much faster, by orders of magnitude, that it actually makes sense economically. It also reduces chance of injury simply with better designs.
They are expensive, but worth it.
If the Festool is better than anything else, why you stil need all the other tools?
A silly comment. For one thing, we are woodworkers, so we can NEVER have enough tools. And tools are specialized things of course.
All I said was that the tools Festool makes are better than the equivalent tools other manufacturers make. Not that it's all you need. Nor that you need those. However, if I were a framer, I woud want my crew to cut with the Festool circular saw; it speeds you up so much it's paid for in less than a day. The vacuums work so well, you have a cleaner and safer environement, but unless OSHA pays you a visit, it's really on your conscience. The other tools: I don't have their planer, so I can't comment. I do have their big router, and I doubt is saves you much in production time over many other 3 HP routers, but it does on cleanup. The vacuum pickup (like the Fein) actually works well, and they both do it much more quietly than their counterparts.
I've never heard anyone regret spending the money on a Lie NIelsen, or a MiniMax, or a Festool.
Daryl, " a silly comment " ? I am serious. I have the AT55. I know where it cuts good and where it is dangerous to use. This saw and vac and guide will not solve all the problems of cutting wood in the shop. This guy tom is asking questions. all the answers sound so good. Does he know what a plunge saw is good for? I found out that in some cuts you don't want to plunge. I'm glad I kept the PC. How many framers using plunge saws you know? that might be silly, or scary.
24570.57 in reply to 24570.54
Hi everyone!
I own many of the Festool tools and all of Eurekazone's tools. Festool makes great tools, has excellent phone support, and ships quickly. However, Eurekazone's products are better, safer, more accurate, cheaper and better supported by the inventor himself - Dino.
For example, the EZ Smart is more solidly built - it is heaver, has three solid connectors (to two of Festool's) and cuts on both sides - advantages over Festool.
The EZ Smart locks your saw onto its guide rail - making cuts safer and easier. A monkey can safely make perfect, chip free cuts with the EZ Smart. Not so easy (or safe) with the Festool system. My expensive Festool rails have cuts in them from the saw jumping the rail on several occasions - unsafe - and a real bummer considering the investment.
The Festool rail requires an expensive Festool saw, Festool blades and a vacuum to work as intended - a big investment - and not always a practical one for many applications.
The EZ Smart systems works with ANY saw - from my 7-1/4" Milwaukee to my 16-5/16" Makita. The 7-1/4" saw, with a $15 blade is cheap compared to the Festool system and safely cuts perfect chip free cuts from either side of the rail. Whenever I put the Festool next to the EZ Smart in front on any contractor I meet, they choose the EZ Smart every time. Why? I suspect that woodworkers prefer to invest under $200 in a system that will work with whatever saw and blade they already have and are used to. If the EZ Smart is damaged, lost or stolen you are out much less money compared to almost any practical alternative.
I happen to buy almost every cool tool that comes down the pike. I even bought the Bradbury Industries table. In terms of quality and value, nothing I have used compares to Eurekazone's lineup.
The EZ Smart makes a contractor table saw obsolete. Cheaper, easier, safer, more accurate. With my 16-5/16" Makita, I can straight line any rough cut lumber - up to 6" thick and 16" long in under a minute - a job that once took two people much longer with a Powermatic 12" jointer. Nothing Festool offers will allow such a cut so easily and practically. More importantly is the portability of the EZ Smart. Try moving a 12" Powermatic to your next job site.
I get the impression that Festool gives the American market the bottom of it's product line. I think the Europeans get a deeper product offering and most likely pay significantly less. Unless you live in New Jersey, you don't pay sales tax, and you definitely don't pay for shipping from Germany.
Having said this, Festool's jigsaws, sanders, saws, vacuums,and routers work extremely well. The 3 year warranty should be a model for other tool makers to follow. Festool's 30 day money back guarantee is admirable. I believe Eurekazone also has a similar money back guarantee.
While value is more important to me than price - I still am amazed at how Festool can charge $175 plus tax for a long life vacuum cleaner bag for the CT33. I would be embarrassed to admit to any other sane human being that I was the one who paid approximately $190 for one vacuum cleaner bag.
Regarding phone support, I found Festool's support to be outstanding - easy to understand, plain speaking, knowledgeable staff during their business hours - I cannot say the same for all their dealers. I almost never got a human voice when I called Bradbury Industries, and I often waited more than 24 hours for my call to be returned. When I called Eurekazone, I always spoke with Dino - the inventor. Since English is not his native language, it is sometimes difficult to understand him. Having said this, I have not spoken to anyone more enthused about his inventions, more knowledgeable about carpentry or more willing to help you work safely and intelligently. He has been available day and night, and even on weekends to answer my painfully persistent questions - I don't know what his time is worth, but I bet he lost money on me. It seems that others have had similar experiences, considering his perfect eBay rating and the buzz on the Internet.
Having used the Festool, EZ Smart, and other systems, and having an appreciation for safe tools with value, I would recommend the EZ Smart to anyone without qualification. When you combine the EZ Smart with Eurekazone's Dead Wood Concept and you have an extremely safe, accurate, clean cutting system that is well worth its very modest investment.
I hope my comments have been useful.
Bill Porta
Daryl.
this guy is dreaming?
davidwood,
Please let's not go down the "Festool versus EZ Smart Guide" again!!!We've been over this territory so much it's created a rip in the fabric of the ethernet. The fact is, both companies offer excellent cutting systems, each with its own advantages. And beyond the guide rails/saw application, we are comparing totally different things.I own a Ridgid table saw, an Incra router table system, and a Powermatic bandsaw. All of these go nicely with my Festool system. Each tool comes in for its specialty.I would not compare my Powermatic bandsaw to my Festool system, so let's not compare the Festool lineup with the EZ SmartGuide rails.
hi matt,
"created a rip in the fabric of the ethernet". I do like your style. I have to look up words every now and then, but it's good mental gymnastics.
so the rip cut gets out of hand and people start cutting each other, is that the problem you're trying to avoid?
I just remembered I told tom I would try to keep this green, but when they start talking about the green saw as a framer's tool? matt you have to least warn people there are some areas where green is not the answer.
you've pointed this out with your other tools in the shop and that's good, but you have set yourself up as the fez expert. when others attack, just prove you have the best or show the cuts or whatever.
If it's always just words, this becomes just like a magazine article where every tool is good and nothing goes wrong. A few sparks once in a while is good. the excitement makes me stay up past my bedtime.
tom, my apologies for coming back.
matt, cudos on the verbage.
jericho
jericho,
I've never used my Festool for framing work, so I can't comment on it. I'm not going to "prove I have the best cuts" as you put it. I'm done with the whole argument about which is better. No more supporting our tools by trashing someone else's.If you look back through my history here on Knots, you'll see that I am often very vocal about tools I like and trust, no matter which company makes them. It just so happens that Festool tools are standouts that I can rely on every day, and they give excellent results. But they are not the only ones I use.One last thing. The person who started this thread wanted to know about cutting with the AT55, Festool guide rails, and using a dust extractor. If you look at my first response, I was just answering his questions. I did not trash anybody else's tools. Far from it, I said very positive things about Fein. So all of your arguments about my one-sided opinions just don't hold up.How about we stick to the point of this discussion?
Edited 8/16/2005 3:03 pm ET by MatthewSchenker
well, oh-yeah, you are a big, big doo-doo head. ;-)
hello matt,
sticking to the point. I told tom I would try to stay on topic. I slipped or was I bumped?
anyway, one of the questions was; can the festool DE pull a TS. nyet.
another question; should I hook a shop vac to the AT55. yes, but you'll need ear plugs and duct tape. If you're going to try this, at least get the small dia festool hose that will hook to the AT.
how's that for staying on topic? best I can do with the green stuff.
as for the one-sided opinions, arguments, and proving, I am guilty as charged on the proof count. this is just about challenges. that's how steeple chase races, nascar, and belt-sander races got started. does that mean I'm an eclectic mix of irish, redneck and sawdust? maybe.
on the other two, one-sided opinions ( is there such a thing as a two-sided opinion?) and arguments, we're making progress.
race you to another thread?
jericho
I wouldn't use a Festool dust extractor on a table saw either! I hook my big loud Ridgid up to the table saw.
morning matt,
I was thinking table saw as in full size w/ a dust port of 4-6". for the table top contractor saw the green vac could do it with the 36mm hose.
how is that ridgid on noise, eh?
I thought you had a fein vac?
have a fein day,
jericho
jericho,
I had a Fein vacuum, but replaced it with the Festool.I have two Ridgid vacuums -- an older 9-gallon model and a newer 16-gallon model. The 16-gallon is actually quieter than the 9-gallon, since Ridgid did some sort of thing with the motor to quiet it down. Doesn't matter, since I wear ear protection in either case. The Festool dust extractor is way quieter.The 16-gallon Ridgid also has a blower. Maybe this is crazy, but I actually use the blower to clean my tools sometimes.The Ridgids offer brute strength; the Festool's offer specialties!
matt,
blowing the dust around? you have 2 brute vacs and one finesse extractor, where's the dust coming from? do you do a lot of hand sanding?
see ya in a couple of days,
jericho
Jericho,
The dust comes from the router table, band saw, and table saw. Festools don't leave any dust behind -- certainly not the sanders.No no, I don't blow the dust around the floor! What I do is blast some air into the fence of the router table, or into the router motor, inside the gears of the table saw or the bandsaw trunion to get particles out.
MatthewSchenker, You are right. There is no comparison between the EZ SmartGuide rails and the Festool. The EZ SmartGuide will not allow the saw to jump off the rail for example. I have both. I know. You are telling one way to set up the shop. I am just showing another way that does not involve as many tools. People need to know facts, real facts. I like my festool router. I use it a lot. But the guide rail I am not happy with. My table saw is gone. I have no need for it any more either. It looks like you like to collect tools. I like to get rid of tools. the festool system makes you keep buying tools, extra rail, extra long rail, extra clamps, special table. But you still need your regular CS and a TS. If you are going to shill for a company, at least get paid for it. If you don't, they are just using you to spread misinformation. These are woodworkers looking for answers and if you give all this information and do not tell about some drawbacks, then you will be the one misleading.
davidwood,
I wasn't going to answer your insulting and obnoxious post, but you do raise some things that need a response:1. Please actually read what I wrote. I said there is no comparison between Festool and EZ SmartGuide because they are different kinds of systems. I did not mean that as a statement about quality. I'm not going to get into any more arguments about comparative quality. Enough of that.2. I do not like to collect tools, whatever the hell that means. I actually have relatively few tools, and like simplicity. If you actually read my post, you'd see that the table saw I own is a bench-top model. I guess all those Unisaw and Powermatic 66 people like to collect tools!3. I've never had my Festool saw "jump off the rails." Could you explain what the circumstances were when this happened to you? Like you said, we wouldn't want to spread misinformation.4. I'm not shilling for Festool, any more than I am shilling for Powermatic, Ridgid, Incra, or Porter+Cable when I say good things about those companies. Again, if you actually read my post, you'd see that my point is that we should use the tools we need for the job at hand, wherever they come from.5. Which "misinformation" do you think Festool is asking me to spread?I look forward to your responses.
Edited 8/16/2005 12:54 pm ET by MatthewSchenker
"If you are going to shill for a company, at least get paid for it..."
How about laying off the personal attacks?
The question was about tools. Whether someone likes or does not like a tool hasn't anything to do with HIS character... on the other hand, accusing someone who happens to disagree with you of dishonesty ("shilling") might say something about yours.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
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