Quartersawn Sapele vs CVG western red cedar for siding?
oHello I am a GC working in an upscale area of southern CT. The architect has specified clear vertical grain western red cedar 1×8 T&G custom profile w/alklyd primer and white paint for a new single family house I’m working on. At $72k, the client has sticker shock. I’ve asked my lumber contacts for a reasonable real wood alterbative, they have suggested sapele, 1×8 quartered (vertical grain looking). I have never used sapele for siding. These clients want this house to be their forever home, and they are near a large freshwater pond, very buggy. What’s everyone’s experience with sapele (at 50% the cost of CVG WRC by the way) as a T&G siding alternative vs western red cedar in terms of longevity, rot, insect resistance, etc)??? also, architect does not want to consider a lesser grade of western red cedar with any knots because he doesn’t want to take the chance of any irregularities through the white paint.
Replies
Mahogany 50% less expensive than cedar. Who would thought it.
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https://www.wood-database.com/sapele/
I would not use Sapele as it doesn't have the same weather resistance as real Mahogany. I wouldn't use Cedar either in the northeast. Since it is going to be painted I would use a Hardi Board product. It comes in several styles and is bulletproof. I think it is silly to use expensive hardwood and then paint it.
thank you, i use hardi on some of my projects but this owner didn’t want to see the Hardi seams. Thank you
You can do a board and batten application. No seams show.
Pitch it to the upscale CT folks as an environmentally responsible use of natural resources and charge them more.
How apropos is it that this question appears when one of the feature articles is on torrified wood. I was first introduced to torrified wood when my local hardwood dealer gave me some sample pieces to test. They were selling torrified poplar siding and he had shown me several test reports, one I remember being done by Penn State University that made some pretty impressive claims for its durability and rot resistance in outdoor applications specifically as siding. It might be worth looking into.
Western red cedar tends to bleed and will require extensive priming and to be safe if it were my project I would go to a 8 grade oil based primer and probably more than one coat. Since the color is white and not a darker pigment the possibility of bleed through is more likely. White over red gets you pink! Difficulty painting is yet an additional added cost to consider.
I would probably cry the whole time painting over clear verticle grain cedar. Your talking absolutely clear and that has always been expensive, to the extent of being ghastly expensive. Drop a grade or two and the price will drop considerably. Painted ,to me ,seems such a waste. There is an import / export battle ( tariffs) that goes on from time to time between the US and Canada in regards to western softwoods causing dramatic shifts in price --you might be in the middle of one of those battles,they seem to come and go.
Sapele is rot and insect resistant and is used extensively for exterior applications and I hear that it paints well. The highly figured grades go to things like furniture ,veneers, guitar top etc. In its less figured grades the cost can be reasonable and in appearance can be quite bland, perfect for your siding project.
In the real world , poplar would be among the worst choices for exposure to weather but they claim that the thermally modified zombie wood process does make it impervious to all things rot related.
Western red cedar prices are also high in Canada 🇨🇦 in the 18$/pmp for KD furniture grade select . BC fir would be a good alternative if not better at half the price and if it to be painted, white Pine is a good choice too at a fraction of the price.
You might want to tell your client that natural wood, while looking good, sometimes can be a nightmare when it comes to woodpeckers. FWIW, I would never again want a natural wood sided house because of the damage that can be done by woodpeckers. We had perhaps 25 holes to patch in our cedar-sided house over a two year period, all on one side of the house, and while the suburban area we lived in was somewhat wooded, we weren't in the middle of a forest. Luckily, our house was painted, so patching consisted of using hardware cloth with Durham's Rock Hard, then priming and painting. The woodpeckers are after any insects that enter under the siding at the horizontal joints. The holes were about 2-3" in diameter. One of the woodpeckers even moved into the side of the house and was building a nest between two studs, using the pink fiber insulation. When I went to patch the hole, 12 feet off the ground on a ladder, the bird flew out of the hole and right into my face.
Our neighbor had one whole side of his house resided because of the damage that was done. There's no way to prevent the damage. Our neighbor tried metallic streamers, fake plastic owls, even tacking disposable aluminum pie tins to the side of his house, and he couldn't stop it from happening.
I'm sure that many people will say that this is a rare occurrence, but I can tell you that it really isn't all that rare.