Replies

1. 
   Napie | Feb 04, 2009 06:33am | #1

   VG is used with softwoods, quarter sawn is used with hardwoods, or so it seems.

2. 
   NWTIMBER | Feb 04, 2009 08:29pm | #2

   I have .02 to add from my experience with working with hardwood lumber.

   Vertical grain is in reference to the grain pattern on the face of a board. A board can either be vertical grain or flat sawn. Flat sawn being the loopy grain pattern and vertical being when the grain runs from one end of the board to the other.

   Quartersawn has specific applications. You must look at the end of the board in order to see whether or not it is truly quartersawn. The grain on the end of the board will look like /////// (or even a bit steeper of a angle).

   Woodworkers desire quartersawn for 3 dimensional applications. Such as legs or Luthers like it for the neck of the guitar. Quartersawn allows all faces of the (leg) to have vertical grain pattern.

   There may be more to it but this is how I use the term in my work. thanks, Sara

   http://www.nwtimber.net

1. 
   joinerswork | Feb 04, 2009 09:13pm | #3

   nw,

   "Quartersawn allows all faces of the (leg) to have vertical grain pattern"

   I think you have confused riftsawn with quartersawn definitions.

   Ray

1. 
   NWTIMBER | Feb 04, 2009 09:38pm | #4

   You are right, I was confusing the two.  

   I found a video on the subject

   http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Materials/MaterialsArticle.aspx?id=28324

    

    

   Edited 2/4/2009 1:48 pm ET by nwtimber

3. 
   SgianDubh | Feb 05, 2009 01:56am | #5

   Vertical grain is a term particularly associated with North American terminology. It is the same as quarter sawn. Perhaps a more precise definition would be to say both these terms describe a plank that is radially sawn from the log. This graphic might help. Slainte.

   View Image

   Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   jimmy | Feb 05, 2009 02:03am | #6

   Whens your book coming out?  If its half as informative as the posts I've been reading from you the last eight(?) or so years , it should be great...Jimmy

1. 
   SgianDubh | Feb 05, 2009 02:37am | #7

   Hell Jimmy, I'm still working on that in between all my other jobs. Three plus years in the writing so far, but I've set a deadline of finishing the manuscript this year. The task after that is to find a publisher that wants to go with it. I had one offer me a contract last autumn, but I'm not willing to accept a contract because I want to work at my pace, not a publisher's pace. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

2. 
   Jammersix | Feb 05, 2009 02:42am | #8

   Then why can I buy VG fir, but no quarter sawn fir, and quarter sawn maple, but no VG maple?

1. 
   SgianDubh | Feb 05, 2009 02:58am | #9

   It's a bit like buying a Hoover compared to buying a vacuum cleaner, or using a biro rather than a ball-point pen. That's two idiosyncracies from British English for you: we hoover up the dirt and write with a biro. Vertical grain is synonymous with quarter sawn, but American timber (lumber) merchants use terms they are familiar with.

   I'm guessing your question was tongue in cheek rather than serious. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   Jammersix | Feb 05, 2009 03:47am | #10

   Nope. I really want to know-- if there's a difference, any difference, I want to know what it is.If there's no difference, then there should be a reasonable reason one is used for fir, and one for maple.If there's no reasonable reason, then there should be and UN-reasonable reason, and then I want the amusing anecdote.:)

1. 
   SgianDubh | Feb 05, 2009 11:26am | #13

   Jammer. the answer is custom and usage of terminology using American English in America, as Dusty seems to have explained quite well in message 12.

   Quarter sawn is quarter sawn, aka radially sawn or, in American descriptive or vernacular terminology, vertical grain. You see the description applied to softwoods, eg, fir and pine but it seems, from my memory of living and working in the USA, to be seldom used to describe hardwoods. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

2. 
   oldusty | Feb 05, 2009 06:35am | #11

     Jammer Man ,     I like your persistence personally ,, not to try and diminish the words of the wise but in terms you may be able to relate to , here goes .

         CVG seems to be a grade specific to Fir and it used to be Redwood was graded as such when old growth was common . Soft woods use a different grading system then hardwoods do .   " C " was a grade for clear , some wood Fir and Pine was graded C 2 , it was clear boards with some defects to cut out to leave the clear lumber.

      So you can buy VG Fir and you can buy CVG meaning clear VG . Not all species produce fabulous grain and character when QSawn , and most of all not all species have the grain makeup that creates VG .

      To me Rift Sawn Red Oak is very straight grained almost like a VG Oak is the way I describe it .Ash Rift sawn and QS is very VG also , Maple is such a closed pored and tight grained wood it typically will not have the VG patterns , therefore is not sold as such .

     So even though the QS Maple is cut the same as Oak it will not normally have the character or Vg grain patterns .

         hope this helps

                       regards dusty

1. 
   Jammersix | Feb 05, 2009 07:42am | #12

   I have no persistence. I just never quit.My wife likes it; my Mom says it's going to get me killed.

1. 
   dgreen | Feb 05, 2009 12:31pm | #14

   They are both right! :) 

    

   ................................................

   Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot

4. 
   tequila_tibbs | Dec 14, 2020 11:32am | #15

   Quarter sawn refers specifically to the way the boards are cut from the tree which produces vertical grain. however you can get vertical grained boards from a a log cut rift sawn or from the centreboard of a flat sawn log (which has the heart removed).
   TL;DR: QUARTER SAWN refers to the process that is used to cut a log and produces vertical grained boards. VERTICAL GRAIN refers to a board that has the radial rings of the tree running straight up the face of the board and comes from quarter sawn, rift sawn and the centre board of a flat sawn log

1. 
   andybd | Dec 16, 2020 04:36am | #17

   @Tequila can I ask what prompted you to revive an 11 year old post?

1. 
   tequila_tibbs | Dec 16, 2020 01:16pm | #20

   i was drunk

5. 
   gulfstar | Dec 14, 2020 12:16pm | #16

   I think this thread confuses growth rings with grain direction. Quarter sawn has vertical growth rings when the board lays flat but the grain runs lengthwise just like in any mill cut.

6. 
   DRBWWing | Dec 16, 2020 10:15am | #18

   AFAIK, the term vertical grain describes a particular type of quartersawn board, one that has growth rings at 90°, whereas "quarter sawn" can be anything from 90° to around 75°, then it becomes rift sawn.

7. 
   _mj_ | Dec 16, 2020 01:13pm | #19

   I use a yard the sells Oak as quartersawn and Doug Fir as "vertical grain". Any boards with straight face grain can be sold at a premium as vertical, so it is more of a descriptive on appearance, like birdseye. In Oak it is about the milling to enhance the figure of the wood by showing internal structures of the wood itself, also for a premium.

   Most other lumber is just stacked for you to pick through. I guess you can't get a serious premium for quartersawn Walnut or Cherry, or that yard doesn't try.

1. 
   john_c2 | Dec 16, 2020 01:32pm | #21

   Quarterback cherry is sold separate in these parts, but not much of it.

   Vertical grain is used most often here in the building trades -- vertical grain for shingles, clapboards, and flooring. I really think the terms vertical grain and quartersawn are technically interchangeable, and subject only to customary usage.