Question?

T.D. | Posted in Joinery on October 18, 2009 06:18am

I am building Lon Schillings essential work bench. The plans call for half blind dovetails on the front apron where the end vise mounts. I have not cut half blind dovetails by hand before.
Any advice?
Are through dovetails easier than half blind to cut by hand?
The wood is hard maple 1 3/4 inches thick

Replies

oldusty | Oct 19, 2009 10:30pm | #1
TD ,

     Delete this post and try again with the title " Help with half blind Dovetails "

              This way folks will know exactly what is what

                      there is a ton of dovetailers here to help you , sorry not me .

           regards             dusty,boxmaker
joinerswork | Oct 20, 2009 04:36am | #2
?

!

Sorry if that seemed too emphatic. I'll rephrase: .

Ray

ps I think that half blind dovetails are easier than baldfaced ones. Half of the joint is, after all, hidden.

Ray
forestgirl | Oct 20, 2009 05:38am | #3
T.D. I almost re-titled your post last night, but thought I shouldn't be so abrupt. If you give me permission, I'll give it a title that's reflective of what you're asking about.

forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
roc | Oct 20, 2009 10:01am | #4
Don't try to cut dovetails by hand without this book :

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Dovetail-Handmade-Furnitures-Signature/dp/0941936678/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=booksqid=1245543976&sr=1-1

Some say the type of wood does not matter but I think dovetails in hard maple is not a good choice for a first attempt at hand cut dovetails.

Practice on some softer wood first. Actually practice quite a lot. You will be better off if you have the correct tools:
•left and right angled paring chisels
•back saws that are sharp and accurate . . .

not sure you don't have these but if you are asking the things you are asking there is a very good chance you don't have them.

>Are through dovetails easier than half blind to cut by hand?<

Maybe but there is more chisel work because you can only cut so far and then you must remove the rest with chisels. For strength I used epoxy to fill any voids behind the outwardly perfect joint because the epoxy can actually be strong across a gap where wood glue will not. I figured since these are the vise jaws they simply could not be made too strong and anything I could do to make the parts become as one mass would be worth doing. Actually mine came out pretty accurate in the hidden areas so no problem.

The alternative is to substitute very large box joints. Some drill and pin through the layers.

Dovetails are a sign of great control of your tools and your medium. I think Lon was kind of showing his stuff here. Not everyone can do this level of wood work. Or in my case taking infinite time and pains not to mess it up. In any case not a quick job. Here is a quick shot of my bench. You have probably seen these a bunch here but in case you haven't.

I did practice a lot and have cut the same joint in other projects. Accurate cutting hand saws are kind of important to. Just getting the saws to cut right can be a job in it's self.

By the way glad to hear from you. Looks like this is your first post. Seems like I saw T.D. here before but perhaps it was TD
roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

Edited 10/20/2009 3:20 am by roc 

Edited 10/20/2009 3:25 am by roc
BG | Oct 20, 2009 11:29am | #5
TD,

Cutting dovetails are a lot easier if you have a workbench. I would find it very difficult to cut half blinds like Roc did without a workbench...cutting sockets into the 6-8'long apron. I would put the sockets in the end pieces...and the tails in the front apron..this would also accommodate expansion better. My point is to carefully think through all the steps and make sure they are doable for you...which is where Ian Kirby's book is so helpful.

Personally, half blinds are tougher but much more forgiving. Two years from now, when your sweating and out of breath from planing a panel you won't give a tinkers dam about the dovetails.

roc | Oct 20, 2009 06:54pm | #6
I hear what you are saying. I used to ride top quality bicycles with a guy that had calves the size of my thighs and was less than 5' 7". Built like a little tank. Fine cyclist ! Really knew his stuff and easily road over 100 miles in five hours. We did 50s in the mornings before work.He used to do the five whammy ride here for one of his regular " training rides ". Each whammy involved steep climbs with switchbacks etc. that most people would be happy to have under their belt once just to say they rode up it. Five different whammies in a row in the same day will certainly get a person in shape for the "real" rides.Ah those were the GOOD OLD DAYS . . . . .Where was I . . . ? Oh yah. He used to tell people who were picking his brain about pro bikes and what they should buy. He used to say " When the sweat is running in your eyes you won't know if you got yadayada or waddyada parts or fancy paint. "Of course his bike weighed fifteen pounds and had highly polished finely made and very beautiful parts that he agonized over before he purchased them. Always a gram scale at his elbow during the selection process ( never can have too much information ). We worked in a shop so could weigh every thing. Payed off in the end. Not only was his ride one of the finest and most beautiful but was easily the lightest as well.I bet when he got home and wiped the sweat out of his eyes and was sippin his sippable he was looking at that bike and admiring it and appreciating the visually appealing attributes.He painted the frame his self for crysake and it was world class paint. Truly fine. He was a master with an air brush and epoxy paint ! ! ! He had a box to bake it in ! We were partners in crime; I did the brazing.So . . . I bet when T.D. sits down to catch his breath and sip his sippable and casts his eye over the dovetails on his bench if there are flaws ( if he is like me ) his eye may go right to them and over look all the fine qualities. If they are world beaters and beautiful he may think "Hey that's not so bad ! Just cause this day is hard doesn't mean the results won't be worth it. Focus and work and enjoy the work and don't cut corners in the best stuff and quality will build on quality. "As Jackson Brown said in a song " Save me just a taste of something fine ".rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

Edited 10/20/2009 12:05 pm by roc

roc | Oct 20, 2009 08:39pm | #7
Of coarse don't get me wrong here. Ugly has its place. Take THE BLACK PIG for one example.

What is the black pig you ask ? It is my long suffering and trusty commuter bicycle. When I got him ( thirty years ago at an estate sale; bike was about ten years old then ) he was candy apple red with chrome decals ! French ! Oohhlala !

I bought him for the sole purpose of parking it at the bus station out side for weeks at a time so I would have transportation when I bussed up from the little town where I lived to the Big City to look for work. Specifically to check in at the place I considered my dream job. I eventually got the job by the way and moved to the Big City. I kept the bike. It happened to fit me better than any bike I ever rode and went on to pattern custom bikes for my self off that steep seat tube angle.

Any way couldn't have the shining red and chrome so I busted out a can of paint called "stove pipe black", is about the cheapest paint other than maybe trunk paint. I fogged the whole bike. Rims and all. Sure makes the rim brakes work great ! For a little while.

Over the years I just give a drop of lube here or rebuilt a bearing there, replaced almost all the parts one by one, but preserved that all important theft resistant ugliness. See pics. Notice the fine patina on the frame tubes.

The joke goes " Oh be careful don't get near him he will slime you ". Not far from the truth. Got to handle him just right or you walk away with a ton of black sooty stuff on one hand and drippy black slime on the other. That is the game; ride him to work but don't get slimed.

Clean him ? Noooo ! That there stuff is theft proofing ! Besides it rained nearly every day here this summer and will see daily use in the winter slush. Clean him ? You must be joking.

We have seen it all. Every ten years or so if he is feeling neglected he will slam me on my face onto the pavement. Just a good natured warning that all is not right.

I put on a new rim or a new this or that. Literally have had more than one rim rip apart and explode because the breaking surface got so thin the metal could not take the strain of the air pressure. No prob mate just pulled the tire off the rim and rode to work on what was left of the rim. Wasn't even late. My butt wasn't the same for hours from all the vibration. Makes a guy appreciate tires.

If he were a mountain bike would have been stolen twenty times over lock and all. Ugly can be a good thing. You know the old song " make an ugly woman your wife and you will be happy for the rest of your life ".

So if you don't want your bench to get stolen out of your garage don't cut it to look like a mountain bike. That is my advice

: )

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

Edited 10/20/2009 1:52 pm by roc 

Edited 10/20/2009 1:57 pm by roc 

Edited 10/20/2009 1:57 pm by roc
daviddodd | Jan 18, 2010 05:37pm | #8
You know, as a beginning woodworker, I made that bench the summer before last. I did everything the way he described it, but I quickly found out those dovetails were well beyond my ability and patience. So I did a simple tongue and groove and that's been fine. Great bench and learning project.
danmart | Jan 18, 2010 07:12pm | #9
I am building Lon Schillings essential work bench.

Could you direct me to where the bench is pictured? Might have a suggestion.

dan