Question! Backing material for bookshelf
WhitePower14
| Posted in General Discussion on
I’m putting together a tall bookshelf out of number 2 pine, so far everything has come out perfectly. For the backing material, I’d like to rout a dado and slide in a board material to provide a solid, happy and joyful rear to the piece. What is the appropriate material? How thin is the thinnest plywood? Is a skin type paneling adequate? What the hell do I ask for at the yard? I’ve seen some guys use up to 1/2 inch stuff for backing, which seems just a tad excessive. What are your thoughts? Will a tablesaw blade kerf be large enough to accomodate such a material? Thanks for the help in advance!
Replies
Hi Jimbo,
Couple of options.
Luan is, I believe 1/4" so it would take more than a table saw blade kerf (2 passes with my TS blade)
You can also use '1/4"' birch plywood. I've been buying 1/3 sheets from HomeCheepo - it's actually 3/16" - I'm pretty sure they have full sheets. I'm using the birch plywood for carrying cases (archery equipment). It's pretty tough stuff and looks good. Just go through the stack to get a good sheet.
HTH (hope that helps)
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
1/4" ply is perfectly adequate for strength. No need for anything thicker, unless you are going to hang something from it (don't know what that would be in a bookcase).
1/4" Luan (pronounced loo - awn) is ok (and cheap at about $7-8 per 4 X 8 sheet), and it doesn't look too bad if it is stained and/or varnished -- although it would be much darker than your pine. However, it is not a good choice if you are going to paint.
Personally, I would prefer 1/4" birch. It paints well, and would blend better with the pine if you are varnishing. Cost is somewhere around $18-20 per sheet.
Hi Jimbo ,
You might consider using Knotty Pine plywood , in 1/4" thickness . The pine would make for a nice match . If matching is not important on this project then you could even use 1/4 white Melamine or Birch or Maple and a number of others that are readily available to you .
dusty
Personally I'd use 6mm birch ply dropped into a rebate routed into all affected pieces before I assembled them...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Wow. . . thanks for all the help! I'm a union plumber, and with this project I've picked up woodworking tools for the first time - what is a rebate? Is that a thin dado? If I'd like to rout a groove up the boards along the long edges, would it make more sense to mess around with a table saw or a router with a 1/4" bit? You guys are great!
A rebate's a dado with a side missing; the edge of the board is where that missing edge would've been. Using a router, the normal option is to cut them with one of these...
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=20972&recno=15
That set's kinda fancy, but they demonstrate the principal; the rebate depth is governed by the difference between the radius of the cutter and bearing.
If the bookcase is already assembled, you've kinda stacked the deck against yourself; adding the rebate's gonna mean running the router on the edge of the boards rather than on a face... There's a danger of tipping the bit into the work. To avoid that, make an "L" section bracket at least as long as the cabinet, clamp that to the outer face of the board to help with stability...
It's maybe too late to say this now, but the best time to make the cut with a non bearing guided cutter is prior to assembly. You can rest the router on the face of the board rather than the edge, guiding it with the edge guide. A better option is to make the cut on a router table where you'll have more control...
Hope this helps....Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
what is a rebate?
Jimbo, I think we're dealing with folks on the east side of the 'pond'. I suspect a rebate is what we would call a rabbet. I've attached a picture of one from a table saw book.
You gotta watch those east siders. They'll start calling their lumber "timber" and refer to things in "mm". ;)
jt8
Opportunity doesn't knock. You knock, opportunity answers. -- American Proverb
They'll start calling their lumber "timber" and refer to things in "mm". ;)
hang on now..... you sayin that lower spinal regions do grow on trees...????????
mannnnnnnn... why couldn't someone have told my doc this 20 year ago....??????
You gotta watch those east siders.
Ahem...
that'd be Scots...
wi an accent like this ya think I'm fae Brooklyn.....????????????
;P~~Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
They'll start calling their lumber "timber" and refer to things in "mm". ;)
hang on now..... you sayin that lower spinal regions do grow on trees...????????
mannnnnnnn... why couldn't someone have told my doc this 20 year ago....??????
<sigh> there they go again. Mixing their lumber and lumbar on us. Next thing you know they'll start calling their car trunks and french fries by different names :)
A couple years back, I'd managed to get my butt over to London for a week. I kept trying to explain to the locals that they talked with an accent, but they wouldn't believe me.
You gotta watch those east siders.
Ahem...
that'd be Scots...
wi an accent like this ya think I'm fae Brooklyn.....????????????
East side of the "pond". With that accent, you're doing OK just as long as we don't mistake you for an engineer on the Enterprise :) To tell you the truth, I'd MUCH rather visit Aberdeen than Brooklyn. But the exchange rate is probably better in Brooklyn ;)
jt8
Opportunity doesn't knock. You knock, opportunity answers. -- American Proverb
But the exchange rate is probably better in Brooklyn ;)
I wouldn't be so sure about that... least... from this side o the pond, buying the likes of L-N's direct from the manufacturer has a definate advantage given that the $ has the same exchange rate as monopoly money right now...
If only their production would catch up with demand...
<currently looking at 4-6 weeks lead time on an order...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
[thread hijack] What's a bottle of Laphroaig -sp- or Glenlivit go for over there?jt8
Opportunity doesn't knock. You knock, opportunity answers. -- American Proverb
offhand I donno... but gimme a little time and I'll endevour to find out...
edited to add...
10yr old:- £23.99
10yr old original cask strength :- £32.49
15yr old :- £31.49
with prices like that I canna afford t read the lables... sheesh
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Edited 3/16/2005 6:14 pm ET by Mike
Sheeze, no home field advantage there! With the worst exchange rate in decades, I think pounds are going for nearly $2 now (about $1.58 when I was there a few years back). So that 10yr would be $48 if I flew over there and bought it. Meanwhile I can probably wander into the local liquor store and pick up a bottle for $36-ish.
Works just the opposite if you head down to Mexico. That $16 bottle of Jose sells for a lot less as you get closer to Mexico...and goes dirt cheap if you actually cross the border to buy it (NOT that I would compare tequila to good Scotch).
Good time for Scots or English to visit the US while the exchange rates are in their favor.jt8
Opportunity doesn't knock. You knock, opportunity answers. -- American Proverb
Son in law made beautiful bookshelves--I will say they are painted. He used beadboard for the back. Nice contrast.Gretchen
East side of the "pond". With that accent, you're doing OK just as long as we don't mistake you for an engineer on the Enterprise :) To tell you the truth, I'd MUCH rather visit Aberdeen than Brooklyn. But the exchange rate is probably better in Brooklyn ;)
*********But the ale's much better than what's probably available in Brooklyn.Leon Jester
But the ale's much better than what's probably available in Brooklyn.
And the folks in Aberdeen are probably a bit friendlier too.
jt8
Opportunity doesn't knock. You knock, opportunity answers. -- American Proverb
I've been out here in California for the last 30 years or so and love to tell people I was born in the far east. When they ask where I say Brooklyn. :)
KDMKenneth Duke Masters
The Bill of Rights
December 15 1791
NRA Endowment Member
LEAA Life Member
CRPA Member
JohnT8,
Those guys across the Pond also refer to a planer as a thicknesser. Can you imagine!I believe they also refer to a miter as a mitre.And they say aluminum with extra syllables.Why can't they learn to speak and write good?Just listen to Richard Jones.
Funny, those Brits. They have a different word for everything.For you in the UK, the translation is in brackets [] :-)I was driving down the highway [motorway]
I was rear-ended [hit in the boot]
by a Semi [Lorry]
I got on my cell phone [Mobile]
and called my insurance agent [broker]
and asked to change my deductible [excess].Enjoy,
MarkThis "translation" happened when I was teaching in Maidenhead. My students and I had a great laugh. The point of the discussion is that you can't buy insurance AFTER the accident and you can't plan After the project is complete.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
I commend to you Bill Brysons book,Notes From a SmallIsland.
Wonder if you chaps could trll me why it is that you have Italian Americans,Irish Americans,Geman Americans etc,but never English Americans.?
Wonder if you chaps could trll me why it is that you have Italian Americans,Irish Americans,Geman Americans etc,but never English Americans.?
*********snicker. More seriously, most of us that claim English heritage tend to be Southerners, so we're just Southern -- with the odd lot of clansmen from the Appalachians mixed in. I know from acqaintances that we've got McLeods, Campbells, Sutherlands and MacGregors and McCalls in abundance.Leon Jester
They are Scottish Americans.Do you think the English intergrate better?
And as Fanders and Swan used to sing....
The rottenest bits of these islands of ours We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot You'll find he's a stinker as likely as not The English the English the English are best I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest The Scotsman is mean as we're all well aware He's boney and blotchy and covered with hair He eats salty porridge, he works all the day And hasn't got bishops to show him the way The English the English the English are best I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest The Irishman now our contempt is beneath He sleeps in his boots and he lies through his teeth He blows up policemen or so I have heard And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third The English are moral the English are good And clever and modest and misunderstood The Welshman's dishonest, he cheats when he can He's little and dark more like monkey than man He works underground with a lamp on his hat And sings far too loud, far too often and flat The English the English the English are best I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest And crossing the channel one cannot say much For the French or the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch The Germans are German, the Russians are red And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed The English are noble, the English are nice And worth any other at double the price And all the world over each nation's the same They've simply no notion of playing the game They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won And they practice before hand which spoils all the fun The English the English the English are best I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad It's just that they're foreign that makes them so mad The English are all that a nation should be And the pride of the English are Chipper and me The English the English the English are best I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest
The English the English the English are best
Ahem.....Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I just call myself a White man (from Brooklyn). Anything else is just a sell out.
The reason that I'm setting the backing away from the rear is so that I can install mounting hardware cobbled together from 2x4 concealed behind the backing, yet invisible from the sides. It's based on something I saw in a magazine called a "french cleat" although here in America they probably call it a "freedom cleat" I'm not quite sure. As for Aberdeen vs. Brooklyn, I'd be satisfied going to a week old morgue instead of my crummy apartment. Hell, Aberdeen would be like a utopia.
Makes sense, Jimbo, French cleats are a very reliable method of mounting stuff to a wall, unless you're a paranoid like my late FIL (who believed that if a #8 3 inch screw was good, a ¼-inch 6 inch lag bolt was better. Seven lag bolts were even better. (Part of his opinion was formed, I believe, by the Germans shooting up his tool storage repeatedly during WWII.)Edited: I suppose I should add that Nick was a retired Navy Chief, it really was his ship that was getting shot up, the tool storage was sort of attached, you might say. To the best of my knowledge, the Germans didn't shoot up Philly during WWII. I can settle for "freedom cleats."Leon Jester
Edited 4/6/2005 10:11 pm ET by Leon Jester
Those are freedom cleats, buddy - freedom cleats. Damn Germans. . .
Even 1/4" is more than necessary - I use door skins, which are 1/8" Luan plywood. Once the shelves are full of books you can't see the back anyway, so why put nice material there? Even hardboard is probably fine. Some people, oddly, do not fill their bookshelves up and so maybe they would need a nicer-looking back..."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
A rebate is typically called a rabbet on this side of the pond. Or a "dado with one side missing".
;-)
Regards,
Ken
"Do as you would be done by." C.S. Lewis
If you are looking for a backing material for a pine bookshelf, I would consider pine wainscotting paneling. You can treat it with the same finish and it will look good. Plus you have the vertical lines to add some visual interest if you want. It's also pretty reasonable.
Regards,
Ken
"Do as you would be done by." C.S. Lewis
Ken, I agree with you. I have made many bookshelves both residential and commercial. Plywood or luan works ok but the finished product looks the best with beaded pine wainscot panel. Depending on the application I have installed sheet goods in a rabbet, in a dado and even surface mounted with 1/4 inch narrow crown staples. Exposure/appearance and time dictated the final approach. JimO
Sorry about the digression there JimO,got carried away,must control myself.
Every piece of shelf-like furniture that discount stores sell typically use 1/8" hardboard nailed on the back with small brads.
Baltic Birch plywood comes in 1/8" and should work fine. It doesn't stain well, but should take paint or any clear finish fine. It will also fit in the kerf left by one pass of most table saw blades.
The last few times I've built bookshelves, I've left off the backs completely. Lets the wall serve as a visual backing, and you can put a small lip on the back edge of each shelf to keep the books from actually touching the wall. Of course, I had enough strength in the frame of the shelves so the back wasn't necessary structurally.
Dave B.
Edited 3/15/2005 6:33 pm ET by 4DTHINKER
At least nobody suggested using a sliding dovetail for the back:-)phew.
Rabbet is sometimes used in England today and rebate is an alteration of the word rabbet,a step shaped recess.
I would suggest a rabbet myself,being the easiest method and just as good.
Hey, how about a sliding dovetail? *Chuckle* Couldn't resist.I like a 1/4 dado slot down both sides and across the bottom and top - set it in about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Build your frame except for the top Or bottom) then slide in the sheet goods...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Nothing like doing it the hard way...chuckle too.
What's hard about that approach, an added benefit, if your sheet goods are square, your cabinet will be (or have to be) square too...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Only hard by comparison with rebate,oops rabbet.
Hi Mark ,
I have used the 1/4" slot on each side for the back on Euro type work, however I would caution some that if the cabinet is to be fastened to the wall through the back then generally I leave a 1/2" behind the back and fill it in in 2 or 3 places depending on the height , so your installation screws do not go through the back. Also the back may not have the normal squaring tendency when racking the box and not firmly fastened to the back side .Though it does have a clean look , the slot may not offer as much strength as the (rabbet , rebate , notch , half dado whatever you would like to call it ) joint has .
dusty
Attaching to the wall - hadn't considered that. Thanks.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
when painting a bookcase or cabinet I use pre painted or plain tempered masonite & as someone mentioned it helps keep things square
i have used beedboad plywood from home depot. i put a rabbit in the back and then measured and did it the easy way and have them cut it for me. with the rabbit any inaccuracies in their saw will be hidden.
this way if you paint or stain you have matching pine. Lastly if you stain the pine will bleed.
remember to use a prestane on it.
David
http://www.darbynwoods.com
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