Hi,
This is my first post here so I apologize in advance if I break some forum rules by posting this here.
i’m rather beginner woodworker when it comes to fine woodworking but I’ve been working a lot lately with wood and would now try to build the garage doors for my house.
I’m limited with the space and machinery so I can’t really make this fully traditional with mortises and haunched tenons, but I could borrow a Festool XL Domino for this project so wanted to check with more experienced woodworkers if that would make sense for doors of this dimensions. I would use 14 by 140mm domino beach tenons to join the rails and stiles, and route the grooves in the frames to put the wood “panels” inside.
From one side of the doors I thought of using the support brace to help reduce the sagging over time.
Each of the three door frames would be approx 115cm wide (45 inches), so total width aprox 345 cm.
The two frames on the right would be connected together with hinges (like bifold doors).
I put in the attachment the screenshots from what I made in sketchup.
I’d like honest opinion if this make sense or if you think that doors built like that would soon fail due to the wood movement and eventual sagging?
Also, if you have some ideas to improve the stability of such doors, I would appreciate it a lot.
Thanks
Replies
If the action is like a tri-fold closet door the rollers are attached on the top in the middle. These seem rather larger for that type of folding. The weight of each panel might be too much for a single roller to handle.
The design puts the entire weight of the door on the top rail. In turn that weight is born by the dominos at those joints. Fat dowels (Dominos) are unlikely strong enough over time. Full width m&t joints are still the norm for stile and rail construction.
Truth is you could probably find hardware out there that will accommodate this design but it might get expensive.
Hi, thanks for the answer.
I probably haven't explained well, the action would not really be as tri-fold closet door with rollers. It would instead be regular opening with standard door hinges.
Not sure if it makes any difference though to the door stability or not.
What kind of hardware do you think could help accomodate the design ?
Those are wide doors to start with and pairing two of them on a common set of hinges on the right side will mean that these hinges and the vertical stile support a 7 1/2 wide panel, that is where the dominos will fail and deep tenon and mortises would barely hold. Such wide doors often have a caster under to support the weight.
Thanks, i might even switch the design from 3 to 4 doors and add some casters to support the weight. I guess it should be less prone to failure then.
I have made very similar doors, and faced significant limitations in terms of ability to cut deep tenons.
In the end, I made bridle joints for the ends - they have so far survived 3 years with no problems.
I also used floating tenons for the internal bracing, but not something as small as the domino - rather, I use a 1/2" x 2" spiral upcut bit to cut a massive deep mortise and made my own super 'domino' to fit.
Finally, it is probably easiest to make these in three layers, each 1/2" or so thick. This makes it a LOT easier to include the tongue and groove as there is no need to cut odd angles (or in my case, curves)
As with all things in woodworking, there are a great many ways to achieve the end goal. If you do decide to go with Dominos, I would use rather a lot of them, just to be safe.
Unfortunately i'm limited with machinery so I can't make bridle joint but maybe three layers could be valid approach here, thanks for suggestions.
There is a FW article by Michael Pekovich called ‘Turn Your Garage Into a Real Workshop’, which describes a method for making lightweight carriage doors, using strap hinges. You should have a look at this.
Will definitely search for it, thanks!
Let me know. Speaking as a retired journeyman carpenter, this is what I would do.
Think about the twisting force on the right door when the middle door is half opened as in your third picture. You will definitely need to support the bottom corner of the middle door(s). On a very level surface!
Weight ratings are your biggest thing to check. Lots of options for regular swing doors 45" is wide but well within the norms. Continuous hinges have knuckles from top to bottom. The other option is offset pivots. Both can have ratings over 400lbs. Let me know I'll be happy to help with model numbers. Doors are my day job.
He has 90 inches with the two right doors attached together. The weight is not the issue, it’s the moment arm at the top right hinge, the bottom one is under compression so nothing to worry there, after that the top horizontal stile carry the load, those diagonals aren’t helping since not going to the top.
I agree with you and chi. Pekovich’s solution is to build a frame for two doors and another for the single. No hinging one door to another. This is a radical departure from the original idea, as is the design of the doors, themselves. If two doors do not afford enough access, then I have no solution other than what has been proposed already.
Gulfstar, would reversing the diagonal to reach up to the hinge side make a diff?
Casters are iffy, most driveways slope down from the doors.
Its one issue to be considered. Certainly not his only issue. Depending on the materials used weight can be a big issue. Honestly it's always an issue just typically presolved by specification and nobody concerns themselves with it. Weight the materials use a properly matched hinge to avoid a problem that won't show up for a while.
Thanks everyone for the replies, it helps a lot.
I've checked Pekovich's solution and I like it, I think I will end up doing similar thing, so having fixed side panels, and two frames for doors where each door would be 45" wide..
I could also use then strap hinges for those regular 45" swing doors which should hopefully provide enough support.
I see the point of gulfstars's comment about diagonale brace not being that much of help as it's not going to the top but I think I might still keep it, I somehow believe it can't make things worse, just help eventually even if it's not signifcant help.
Again, thanks for all of your comments, I did mostly carpentry work so far and I like getting better understanding of fine woodworking on projects like this.
Using strap hinges that reach across the stiles far in the horizontal rails would compensate for the short tenons.
If you build to Pekovich’s design, then all the strength of the doors is in the torsion box. Rails, stiles, and diagonals, are all trim.