Replies

1. 
   user-83153 | Nov 21, 2007 03:24am | #1

   Since all finishes have trade offs and their is no "one best finish" it is important to know what you are looking for besides durability.

   Do you want a film finish? An "in the wood" finish? Are you planning to dye or stain the wood, or will the color be left natural? Do you want an arts & crafts type finish?

             Rob

1. 
   velomark | Nov 21, 2007 05:50pm | #4

   Rob:

   Thanks.  I am going to keep the natural color and am looking for an arts & craft finish.

    Cheers,

   Velo

1. 
   user-83153 | Nov 22, 2007 03:56am | #6

   Velo,

   A traditional arts and crafts finish usually is much darker than the natural color of q-sawn white oak. It involves fuming the wood with ammonia to darken it as Frenchy mentioned.

   Here is a link to Jeff Jewitt's version that doesn't involve the hassle of fuming. http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/mission_oak.htm There are many similar ones, including some on this website(use the search function if you are interested).

   If you don't want to color the wood then you could probably use any type of topcoat that you want. Which one would depend on what finish qualities that you want. Which brings us back to these questions... Do you want a film finish? An "in the wood" finish?

   Sorry that I haven't been of more help. I'm trying.

           Rob

1. 
   velomark | Nov 27, 2007 12:47am | #7

   Rob:

   Thanks. 

   This discussion has emphasized to me how little I know about this.  I did recall that I own a FWW finishing guide book and I am reading up on some basic finishing processes.  I am appreciate your patience in answering my questions

   What is a film finish? How is it different than a wood finish?

   The white oak I used to make my table did not come from the same tree.  White oak is pretty hard to find in this area and thus I had to obtain it from various sources.  My finishing guide indicates that fuming should not be used unless all of the wood came from the same tree.  Do you agree?

   I found a guide for basic stickly finishes at the following:

   http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/pdf/mission_oak2.pdf

   I am going to review these with the next couple of days and pick a shade/finish to use as a guide.

   Thanks

    Cheers,

   Velo

1. 
   BG | Nov 27, 2007 01:33am | #8

   Velomark,
   I used jeff's #3 protocol on a bookcase that came out great. The only difference was I used wipe on varnish to save a bit of money.

2. 
   user-83153 | Nov 27, 2007 03:17am | #9

   Velo,

   The article that you linked to is basically the same thing that I linked to in my previous post. It is a good schedule to follow. Fuming can be troublesome when using wood from different trees due to each tree having different reactions to ammonia, I don't think that fuming is worth the trouble when we have the dyes available to us that we do today.

   A film finish is when a finish is built up on top of the wood as is done with lacquer, varnish or shellac. An "in the wood finish" is a term used to describe the look you get when you use boiled linseed oil or pure tung oil or one of those oils mixed with varnish. Those finishes are generously applied, allowed to sit for a few minutes and then the excess is wiped off, resulting in a finish that doesn't build but looks "in the wood". There are many of these oil finishes available commercially, some marketed under very deceiving terms. For instance, many finishes with the words tung oil on the label don't have any tung oil in them at all. They are a mix of BLO and varnish or even varnish thinned with mineral spirits. For some reason woodworkers seem to think that tung oil has some magical properties, possibly because it is oriental. In reality I doubt that anyone could tell the difference between a board finished with tung oil and one finished with BLO, except that the tung oil would take a month or so to cure and cost a lot more.

   If you are interested in learning more about finishing the book "Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner is considered by many to be the bible of finishing. He explains the basics and the advanced techniques of finishing in an easy to read way. Flexner also explains many of the myths perpetuated by finish manufacturers who are more interested in making money than helping their customers achieve a good finish.

3. 
   velomark | Nov 27, 2007 06:39pm | #10

   Rob:

   My sense is that we want an "in the wood finish".  However, durability is very important.  Would a film finish provide a more durable surface to the top of the table?  Would there be any differences in terms of on-going maintenance between the two finishes?

   Thanks AgainCheers,

   Velo

4. 
   MonteB | Nov 27, 2007 09:14pm | #11

   Velo,

   I second Rob A.'s recommendation of Bob Flexner's book. Ater borrowing it from the library three or four times, my wife bought it for my birthday.

   He now has an updated edition of the book. Both editions are an easy to use reference as well as an educational read-through.

   Monte

5. 
   user-83153 | Nov 28, 2007 03:16am | #12

   Velo,

   Here is a link to an article by Jeff Jewitt that will help you decide what finish to use on any project. It discusses film vs. in the wood, durability, ease of application and repair, etc.

   http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011141058.pdf

   The link you had in an earlier post is a good finish for you to use on this project. If you follow that schedule and use the Waterlox satin be sure to mix it very well each time before using and every once in a while as you use it. The flatting agents that are in the varnish to tone the gloss down need to be thoroughly mixed or you will have streaks of glossy finish next to streaks of dull finish.

   I have attached a picture of a sofa table that is wrapped in q-sawn white oak that uses Jeff's schedule for the most part. The main difference is that I used only shellac for a top coat. The coloring portion of the schedule was done with dark mission brown transtint sealed with shellac followed by Varathane dark walnut gel stain with the excess thoroughly wiped off.

   I hope this helps, Rob

   
6. 
   velomark | Nov 28, 2007 07:12pm | #13

   Excellent!  Thanks for the help!Cheers,

   Velo

2. 
   z3peru | Nov 21, 2007 07:15am | #2

   I'm also trying to figure out the finish for a white oak table.  I am going to fill the pores--a necessity if you want a high gloss finish.

   The next step is Danish oil.  After a couple of applications, I'll apply several coats of varnish.  Once I figure out how to rub out the varnish, I'm ready to start.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 21, 2007 04:03pm | #3

   Once you have filled the pores the Danish Oil has no particular function to play.  OIl or oil/varnish mixes must be used on bare wood, since on wood that has been sealed, including with the pore filler, it would either be virtually all wiped off anyway, and if not thoroughly wiped off it would form a soft, gummy layer on the surface.  You might want one coat of BLO or Danish Oil prior to putting on the pore filler though I doubt you would see the difference in the finished table. 

   If you want to color the wood, then I'd begin with a dye to establish the overall shade--aiming a little on the light side since you have other steps to take.  After the dye I'd seal lightly with a coat of 1 1/2 or 2 lb. cut shellac so that the pore filler will mostly add color to pores, and not on the surfaces in between.  Then I would use oil based pore filler. This should be tinted a little to give a little contrast with the base color if you want to emphasize the grain structure, or tinted to be a close match if you don't.  With oak it will take two applications at least several days apart to completely level the large pores.  Then let the pore filler cure for a week in a good warm space. 

   At this point you can begin with the top coat.  I like a good traditional resin varnish.  Pratt & Lambert 38 or McCloskey Heirloom (if it is still around--there is some merging of product lines with Cabot that I am not quite sure about yet.) Those two are on the lighter side in color, with a Soya based varnish.  If you are going a bit more amber, as in Golden Oak, you can use the excellent but slightly darker Behlen Rockhard.  Any of these can be thinned to use as a wiping varnish, or you could use any of the three Waterlox sheens, which includes a Gloss, as well as the nearly gloss Original/Sealer, or the Satin. 

3. 
   frenchy | Nov 22, 2007 03:16am | #5

   velomark,

     quartersawn white Oak I assume?  I also assume that you know how to fume it to achieve the typical arts and craft finish.  You will of course use shellac then, right?