Replies

1. 
   JMartinsky | Nov 30, 2006 01:56am | #1

   Dear Marion,
   Here in CT, the "domestic" (US/Canada) plywood is typically seven ply for 3/4 Birch and thirteen ply for imported (China). The bigger difference being the finish veneers. The imported is paper thin an very easily sanded through., and the domestic has a much thicker veneer. To, me they both perform equally well, so for paint-grade, I choose the imported for price.

   Best,

   John

   
   

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   Edited 12/13/2006 4:47 pm ET by Jmartinsky

2. 
   mudman | Nov 30, 2006 05:19am | #2

   The letter refers to the face, or good side. "A" is the best and is expensive, some species will easily cost $80. "B" is the most commonly used for cabinetry and nonvisible furniture parts, like drawer bottoms and the back. "B will have no natural streaks or knots but some will have patches. "C" will have knots, natural streaks, sap wood, and lots of patches. It is usually used for cabinet backs, non visible parts, or general shop fixtures.

    The number refers to the back and the grading follows the same grading as the face grades but to a lower standard.

   You almost never see a B3 or A3 even A2. They do exist but are mostly used in the production furniture industry where they want a nice face but dont care at all about the back. I have only used A1 a couple times, and it is very costly. B2 is what you generally see at the lumber yard. There are other rating systems, but my supliers always translate them into the "standard" system. There can be considerable variances within the same ratings.

   The letter/number grade only refers to the apearance of the face. You also need to know if  it is rotary cut quarter sawn and spliced, plain sawn and the veneer thickness. there is also the core, which includes the number of plies, MDF, PB, solid wood, or cambinations.

   This may seem complicated, and it is. That is why it is good to develop a relationship with the sales guys at you lumber yard. My guy knows what I like, the times I wasn't happy with the product he made it up to me and I rely on him to tell me if it is good product or not.

    

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   EBrandt | Dec 13, 2006 09:30pm | #3

   I too am interested in this thread.

   For me being a 'small guy' (I use maybe 10-20 sheets / year) I feel like my plywood choices are limited:

   1. I can go to HomeDepot/Menards and pay ~$40/sheet for whatever 3/4" Oak or Birch they happen to have on hand. Last time I bought it there it had 'Made In China' stamped on its end.

   2. I can go to a plywood wholesaler (Alpine Plywood here in Milwaukee) and pay about $75/sheet for 3/4" Oak.

   I've always done choice choice 1 but I always wonder just how much better (if at all?) the product would be if I chose option 2?

   Which leads to another point - I'd like to get some sheet good with melamine on one side and oak veneer on the other. The local wholesaler stocks it, but at $75/sheet, I wonder if there are any other sources I should check, or is that the going price?

   Thanks,

   Eric.

1. 
   mudman | Dec 13, 2006 10:56pm | #4

   You do face a difficult choice. I must say though that $75 for oak ply is awfull high. Unless it is quarter sawn or has premium core plies. I get cabinet grade Oak ply for something like $60 maybe $68. The cabinet grade sheet goods at the Big Box stores are hard to beat. My supplier can't or wont  beat it. He just claims that they buy crappy plywood, so it costs less. But when ever I buy competitavely priced ply at the lumber yard it is always lower quality. The main problem with the sheet goods at Home Depot is that they never keep a caver sheet on the stack and they dont sticker the racks correctly so the sheets are usually warped pretty bad. So if it is flat I say go for it.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

2. 
   Marion | Dec 14, 2006 05:29am | #5

   I ended up returning two sheets and picking up two from local lumber yard. When I called the local place, I asked if the plywood(birch 3/4")was domestic. They said it was. When I got there the plywood had "Made in China" stamped on it. It has 12 layers with paper thin veneer. It was $55 a sheet.
   I can't understand why there aren't rules about marking the plywood. The stuff I returned because of the delamination had no markings on it. The China stuff doesn't say if it is B-1 or what.
   I'm going to call around and see if I can find another yard to deal with next time.
   Thanks,
   Marion

1. 
   oldusty | Dec 14, 2006 06:42am | #6

   Hi Marion ,

               Even on good domestic plywood there will not always be a grade number present . Some have may have a name like , Monarch Birch or Custom Maple . The big box stores typically have lesser grades of the cabinet grade materials .It can be marked RO P/S eventone , but maybe not A2 .Be careful with that material and choose the right application when using it , I used a few sheets and it warped after I cut it up  , "not until the last log is down" do I care to try that one again .

              regards  dusty

     

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 14, 2006 06:08pm | #8

   There are rules for plywood as long as it's made in the US or Canada.Go here: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm for the Wood Handbook put out be the Forest Products Lab of the Forest Service. Look in the section on composition materials. You will find the references to the standards.Keep in mind, the most plywood is used in construction, not furniture. Therefore, the standards are skewed strongly to performance characteristics like strength, bending, etc. Appearence is not a major factor. Most furniture grade plywood is sold based on appearence and you won't find it in the big boxes. Big boxes sell construction grade lumber not furniture grade.Howie.........

3. 
   cadiddlehopper | Dec 14, 2006 07:22pm | #9

   "I can't understand why there aren't rules about marking the plywood."There ARE rules. There are rules for lumber grading also. Problem: they are voluntary and set by the industry. I am sure that they are not international. That is similar to turning the EPA over to the oil and coal producers but not as dangerous. Further problem: if you try to sort through the grading rules and commit them to memory, there is no pattern of grades similar to anything else you will encounter in life. They are even different for different species and hard versus soft woods.Cadiddlehopper

3. 
   charles | Dec 14, 2006 07:01am | #7

   Marion,

   This site has a lot of information on grading standards. Keep in mind it is a voluntary standard and some suppliers do not use them. I don't buy from suppliers that sell ungraded material.

   http://www.hpva.org/

    

   I think Cedar Creak lumber sells in your area. They may be wholesale only but might sell a few sheets retail on a good day. Another source may be a local cabinet shop or mill-work house.

    

    

   Good luck

   Work Safe

   Charles

4. 
   Dan1120 | Dec 15, 2006 10:58pm | #10

   I buy my ply from Lowe's or Menard's. I find Lowe's is fine for birch, but Menard's can't be beat for Oak. About $35 a sheet for 3/4. The Oak at Lowe's seems to be rotary cut and the Oak at Menard's is closed to quarter sawn, the grain just looks a lot better. Menard's is also selling Baltic Birch for about $55 for 3/4. And they can special order walnut, cherry, etc.

5. 
   a_Furnitologist | Dec 16, 2006 04:50pm | #11

   Marion:

       As usual great replies!!! What you do have to remember when buying flat panel goods is that you are buying the "face" then evaluating the structure of what is available to you. 

       Over time you will notice big differences between the A side and B side, then you'll inspect the structure of that panel and make a decision as to whether you feel that panel will work for you or not.

       Don't over think your purchase, like many on this forum, over time you may lay your own veneered panels because you can never find what you want.

       Neil

    

     

      

    

1. 
   ptu | Dec 16, 2006 08:25pm | #12

   I pretty well quit buying plywood, I was paying $90 a sheet 3/4 birch, and it was dlaminated, and warped, and the thickness varied. This was Home (We got your lumber) Hardware. I found construction grade to be much better wood, and cheaper. It is okay if you can hide it.

6. 
   dovetail15 | Dec 17, 2006 04:25am | #13

   Marion,

   St.Charles Hardwoods has the best plywood selection in the greater St. Louis area. A close second is A+ Hardwoods in Arnold.