Replies

1. 
   LJM | Sep 24, 2006 02:25am | #1

   You may have wind in one or more of your pieces. Check each pieceindividually on a flat surface or with winding sticks.
   Larry

2. 
   ring | Sep 24, 2006 03:19pm | #2

   Try first to identify the source of the problem.  If you dry fit the frame pieces only (without the panel) is it out of plane?  If it is OK, then the panel is the culprit and needs to be jointed/planed.  If the frame itself is at fault, then probably some angle was slightly off in your joints.  You didn't say how the joints were made, but any tooling that was not perfectly 90° will repeat that error 4 times over and cause the frame to be out of plane.

   DR

1. 
   DanAlberta | Sep 24, 2006 10:47pm | #3

   It is out of planw without the panel. I made the joints on my router table using a mitre guage, with a rail and stile bit. I have noticede thgat the rails and stiles are slightly out of plane ith each other. Could this cause the frame of the door to twist?

1. 
   ring | Sep 24, 2006 11:18pm | #4

   Yes it could.  Any systematic inaccuracies in the joint are multiplied 4 times, and this is probably the most common cause of frames that do not lie perfectly flat. Boards that are bowed are too obvious of a problem to be mysterious.  You have to check every step in order to find the reason.  Was the the stock milled perfectly square?  If the edge-jointing was even slightly off 90° this will cause every joint to bend a bit when clamped up, all in a compounded way.  Or, if you held the stock to the miter gauge in a way that slightly angled it, it would have the same effect. 

   DR

3. 
   oldusty | Sep 24, 2006 11:41pm | #5

             Dan ,

                    Even if some of the frame members are not perfectly flat , I glue them up and usebar clamps and stand them up side ways and sight down the door it self to see if it is racked , you will see the discrepancy from one edge of the door to the other . I actually hold the end of the bar clamps and rack them into the correct direction . When un clamped the door will stay put in the plane it was glued up in .

               How much are you talking about any way ? Industry standard suggests 1/4" diagonal warp or rack is in the acceptable range , with euro hinges you can easily adjust the door until it looks fine . Even if the door is perfectly flat some cabinets after being screwed to the wall become racked, and the door will need tweaking .

                          good   luck         dusty

1. 
   Patto | Sep 27, 2006 06:21am | #7

   Dusty,

   I'm surprised at your comment of 1/4" being acceptable rack in a panel frame. Is this the practical limit of a mass production process or because so many othe rthings can go wrong that it just isnt noticed?

   dave

1. 
   oldusty | Sep 27, 2006 07:21am | #8

   Hi Dave ,

                Door factories that serve the cabinet industry have brochures with disclaimers included . This was one of the standard disclaimers I have seen , as well as the fact that they could not guarantee grain type or color discrepancies that may exist . Unless you paid more per square foot and ordered the elite series that paid more attention to matching and such .

            I make all my own doors and can retain control of the grain patterns and color changes . In 25 years I have purchased one set of doors , that was the first and last time for me . I am picky about grain and try to do as much pattern matching as possible , when applicable .

           I belive the 1/4" is reality for a mass production fabricator , as a rule F & P doors stay quite flat if your set up is close to right . I can't remember ever having to replace one due to warpage . Try the system of sighting from one side to the other and tweaking the clamps until flat , you'll like it

                            dusty

1. 
   Patto | Sep 27, 2006 08:17am | #10

   Dusty,

   I'm strictly amateaur at this, it just seemed a large level of imprecision, particularly given the mass and expense of the type of machienery needed to do this work in any quantity.

   My last complex glue up (squatters chair) was trued by sighting across the rails from about 10' away and wedging the feet untill all square. Good result visually, havent measured the resulting twist.

   Dave

1. 
   oldusty | Sep 27, 2006 09:30am | #11

    Dave ,

          Regardless of the mass or expense of the machinery used , wood imo is a very unforgiving medium . It is what it is , with Euro hinges and some finesse these imprecisions can virtually be non existent depending on the application .

     In the real world many walls are not flat and sometimes cabinets get racked out , so even most doors that are way flat may be placed against a surface that is less than perfect and need adjustments .

            What's a squatters chair look like ?

                            dusty

4. 
   jackplane | Sep 25, 2006 11:29pm | #6

   I think ring is right.

   You may also be putting too much clamping pressure, which will compound the problem. But the main issue is getting a solid fit in the t & g joint connecting stile to rail.

    

5. 
   dull tool | Sep 27, 2006 08:09am | #9

   Dan,
   Please see my post number 31808.5 and 6. Also use minimum clamping pressure on your glue-ups. On the frame and panel chest I did not use glue!! I used pocket hole joinery to attach the rails to the stiles and used biscuits to align the various components (front, back, ends and bottom) and then assembled them with pocket screws. Everything came together with ease and with a minimum of clamping. The beautiful part is that if anything goes wrong it can all be disassembled and repaired.