Replies

1. 
   mike_b | May 30, 2006 12:15am | #1

   I've had a 10" RAS for years, but it wasn't until I put a Forrest Chopmaster on it that it cut with any real precision. It was a huge improvement. I was all set to by their Woodworker I, but I talked to one of their sales reps, and he recommended the Chopmaster -- very knowledgeable people and a pleasure to deal with. (wish my RAS was a '55 DeWalt)

1. 
   Glaucon | May 30, 2006 03:47pm | #16

   I'm curious- what improvement do you notice using the Chopmaster- and why do you think it helps? I have a standard combination blade on my Delta RAS and use it for rough crosscutting mostly. I do think a more precision blade might help with tenons and accurate crosscuts- what has your experience been?
   Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

1. 
   mike_b | May 30, 2006 07:58pm | #20

   "I'm curious- what improvement do you notice using the Chopmaster- and why do you think it helps?"Glaucon,To begin with, my RAS is a 1982 or so vintage Sears, so it's not in the same league with Deltas and older DeWalts. I beat on it for years and didn't worry too much about accuracy -- it was OK for what it was. Several years ago I decided to see if I could get more out of it than just OK cuts. I spent a bunch of time dialing it in, but the blade would still wander all over the cut line in anything harder than pine. I always assumed this was because the stamped steel arm had too much flex and the RAS's design allowed for the blade to climb. In a last attempt to fix the problem, I called Forrest and explained what I was trying to do. I was prepared to go with their Woodworker I, which they promote as ideal for crosscutting on radial arms and table saws. The sales guy recommended the Chopmaster instead because of its bevel and hook angles, and I'm really glad he did. The difference is night and day. I added a blade stiffener and the saw now cuts dead on every time -- no more wandering on the cut line. It really is a precision machine now. I wish I had sprung for a good blade years ago. Hope this is helpful to you.

1. 
   Glaucon | May 31, 2006 05:36pm | #23

   Thanks Mike, that is very helpful.Could you tell me a bit about the blade stiffener... I haven't used one, and I am curious about it,Thanks again,Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

1. 
   mike_b | May 31, 2006 07:38pm | #24

   "Could you tell me a bit about the blade stiffener... I haven't used one, and I am curious about it,"Glaucon,Blade stiffeners are available in various diameters (I use a 4" with my 10" blades) and help dampen vibration of the blade which in turn makes for a more accurate cut. I believe they are of more value to a thin kerf blade, but I notice some improvement on my 1/8" blades, so I've stuck with them for a number of years, though I have friends who think they're pointless on a thicker blade. That's about as technical as I can get on the subject. Perhaps if Charles M is still following this thread, he can explain the physics in more detail -- I believe Freud offers them in several sizes.The trade off to using stiffeners is decreased maximum depth of cut, but I rarely have to remove mine for either the radial arm or table saw.My advice would be to borrow one from a friend and see if it makes a perceptible difference before spending your hard-earned dollars. MikeEdited 5/31/2006 12:41 pm ET by Mike_BEdited 5/31/2006 12:42 pm ET by Mike_B

   Edited 5/31/2006 12:42 pm ET by Mike_B

2. 
   RickL | May 30, 2006 12:15am | #2

   Negative hook blade is what you want. Positive hook blades tend to grab and are more dangerous. You can learn a lot from reading tooling manufacturers cataologs on what blades are for what application. Negative hook blades can also cut non-ferrous metal like brass and aluminum. I use one in my table saw to cut brass on a regular basis.

1. 
   mudman | May 30, 2006 12:44am | #3

   I was wondering what the trade off is with a negative hook? Seems like it might not cut as effeciently. Freud's site recomended blades that have 2 to 5 degrees. Which is a lot less that the 15+ degrees that combo and ripping blades have. They have a blade that clearly seems to be tailored to a RAS ,the F812, but I don't want to spend $180.

   Mike

1. 
   BruceS | May 30, 2006 01:14am | #4

   The Freud sliding compound 12" 72ATB 1" arbor. Neg. Hook LU91RO12 runs $69.99.  Available at  http://www.eagleamerica.com   Part # 602-9112. That should do the job for you,  At a favorable price to you.Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

1. 
   mudman | May 30, 2006 05:53am | #7

   I like that blade, it is on my Miter saw now. Actually it moves between the two machines. I was thinking that a thicker plate and kerf might make a difference in the cut. Actually that is another question I have. What is the difference between a thin kerf and full kerf blade in this application?

   Mike

1. 
   BruceS | May 30, 2006 03:23pm | #15

   Thin kerf / full kerf.  The full kerf is about  .035 thicker.   I have both and I can perceive a slight differance when using the RAS as it is a little more under powered than the  TS.Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

2. 
   RickL | May 30, 2006 01:21am | #5

   Negative hook blades cut fine. Been using them professionally for 35 years in various applications. There's other good brands besides Freud.
   Doesn't your local sharpening service sell blades?

1. 
   mudman | May 30, 2006 05:45am | #6

   Even though I live in the cabinet shop capital of the world (In Dallas/ Fort Worth they are a dime to the dozen) there seems to not be any decient sharpening services. My suppliers all carry blades, but they typically don't have first hand experience with the tooling. I will likely buy from them if their price is reasonable, but I need to know which blade to get.

    I am open to other brands so if you have a recomendation let me know.

   Mike

3. 
   Bolts | May 30, 2006 11:18am | #8

   CMT the italian router bit people make superb saw blades I dont know who sells them in the US we have been useing them on a 10inch radial with very good results regards fromOZ

   You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof 

1. 
   dgreen | May 30, 2006 11:31am | #9

   I have been happy with CMT blades also, that being said there are other good blades at good value for the money out there also. I have no personal experience with Freud blades but I have been impressed with Charles candor on this forum and his knowledge of his companys product. If you ask him for specific product information I believe he will steer you right. Should you wish to try CMT's product let me know and I will find a dealer in your area. I am curious why you the owner of a very nice 14" saw wish to put a 12" blade on it. There should be some good 14" blades out there for close to your budget. I have a 1955 Dewalt 12" and use a fine crosscut blade with good results, it is not a negative hook but I always assume no matter what blade is on the saw it is going to try and climb the material. This should have been addressed to Mudman. Long day, my apologies.
   Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb

   Edited 5/30/2006 4:42 am by dgreen

1. 
   Bolts | May 30, 2006 11:57am | #10

   No you probably got it right I mentioned the CMT blades

   You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof ,I thought the saw was 12 inch if it is 14 put a 14inch blade on it.

   Edited 5/30/2006 4:59 am ET by Bolts

2. 
   Bolts | May 30, 2006 12:04pm | #11

   Radial arm saw climb cuts when you pull it towards you and feed cuts when you push it through the work you probably know this I dont mean to be a smart A.....You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof 

1. 
   dgreen | May 30, 2006 12:09pm | #12

   No offense taken, I was referring to the tendency for it to move toward the operator on it's own volition. Someone else had remarked that a negative hook was desireable to prevent this and while I'm sure it does, the safe thing is to assume the saw wants to eat you.
   Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb

1. 
   Bolts | May 30, 2006 12:24pm | #13

   Thank you I have had a 10 inch radial for over thirty years and have never used a negative hook blade if the saw is set up correctly it may try and eat you but it wont unless you let it 

   You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof 

   Edited 5/30/2006 5:25 am ET by Bolts

2. 
   dgreen | May 30, 2006 12:31pm | #14

   I agree, I'm not sure what degree of positive I'm running right now but I never put body parts within 6 inches of the blade path to the sides and never in line.
   Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb

2. 
   mudman | May 30, 2006 07:18pm | #18

   Everyone,

   I love having you guys/gals to help me. Your experience and knowlage is invaluable.

   To those who mentioned CMT. I have a CMT crosscut blade for the TS. It is OK. I have found that any decient blade (even the $40 blades at the Big Boxes) will cut good. It seems that the better and "best" blades last longer and have a lot more carbide. Time and time again I find that Freud's bits and blades have more carbide and are better polished than CMT, and that is after buying CMT so I am not biased towards Freud because that is what I bought. If there is a model in the CMT line that yall recomend for my application then I will look at it, my suppliers carry CMT so I can look at them.

   I use a 12" blade on my 14" saw because I already have a collection of 12" blades, 12" blades are cheeper and more common, I don't need the extra depth of cut, you gain a little bit of crosscut capacity with the smaller blade, and although my saw could hardly be considered under powered (3 phase, 3 horse) a 12" blade is easier on the motor. All of my friends (comercial shop owners) do the same with their old beasts. If there was no price difference or it was cheeper I would buy a 14" blade. Although it would be a minor PITA to raise and lower the arm between the different sized blades. The advantage of the larger blade is a slightly better angle of attack with respect to tear out, as I understand it.

   Thanks forthe info,

   Mike

4. 
   charlesm | May 30, 2006 04:21pm | #17

   Mike,

   Hook angle is important for the cutting application and for the saw application. Very aggressive positive hook blades are best for ripping since it helps clear the chips. The hook is a little lower for crosscut blades to reduce tear out. Low and negative hook is great for plywood and laminates as it reduces the tendency to chip out the exit side and also for non ferrous metal and plastic. Low and negative are also good for sliding saws like the RAS to reduce the self feeding effect. ATB grind is great for shearing fibers for crosscuts and HiATB is even better and a good quality HiATB blade will have harder carbide to extend the life. Thin kerf has gotten a bad rep over the years primarily because the early ones were too flexible. Modern TKs that are laser cut can be made of stiffer steel so they don't suffer from flex in the cut the way the old ones did. TK also helps reduce the self feed effect.

   Is there a problem with the LU91 that you have?

   Charles M

   Freud America, Inc.

1. 
   mudman | May 30, 2006 07:55pm | #19

   Charles,

   I was mistaken about the LU91, it is a $60 Diablo series blade the D1280X.  I really dont have a problem with it per say. It was a $50 or $60 blade and I use it on the miter saw for on site work, generally stuff I am not too picky about. But it does tear out on the back side (miter saw) and a little on the bottom with the RAS. It is also starting to dull. I really just want a dedicated blade for the RAS. I supose my priority is to crosscut Ply with no tear out. I will not use this blade on lumber over 1" because I have another blade for that purpose.

   Here are a couple of blades I am looking at the LU91 and the LU80RO12. The LU91 is cheeper by $45 but is Thin Kerf and ATB. The LU80 has a full kerf, HiATB, and I suspect it had more carbide so it could be resharpend. As you said there might not be an advantage to having a full kerf. I am leaning towards the LU80, unless the LU91 will give the same service life.

   What do yall think?

   Mike

1. 
   charlesm | May 30, 2006 08:40pm | #21

   The LU80 is definitely the one to get, both for the plywood cutting and for the overall life of the blade in terms of the number of sharpenings (they can both be sharpened many times but the LU80 has thicker carbide than the LU91).
   Charles M

   Freud America, Inc.

1. 
   mudman | May 31, 2006 12:22am | #22

   Thank you for the recomendations.

   MikePardon my spelling,

   Mike

5. 
   Troy | Jun 01, 2006 01:12am | #25

   I put a CMT negative hook blade on an old Dewalt 9" RAS. The blade was a 8.5 inch blade for a sliding miter saw and it worked great.

   Good luck

   Troy

1. 
   mudman | Jun 01, 2006 06:37am | #26

   Was it the LU91?. From what I read on the Dewalt sites that seems to be popular for those saws.

   Mike

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

    

   Sorry I missed the CMT part. what model number is it?

   Mike

   Edited 5/31/2006 11:38 pm ET by mudman

1. 
   Troy | Jun 01, 2006 09:11pm | #27

   I don't have the CMT catolog but it was the blade they advertise for the Hatachi sliding miter saw.Troy

1. 
   mudman | Jun 02, 2006 02:23am | #28

   Thanks, I think I know which one it is.

   MikePardon my spelling,

   Mike

6. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jun 02, 2006 09:41pm | #29

   I just got a pile of info from Tony at Forrest tech support (1-800-733-7111) so I can resurect my old RAS. They have no $100 blades but  the woodworker I a 60 tooth ATB in 12/14 is $141/161,

   The better chopmaster with a heavy plate,c-4 carbide, negative rake and an 80 tooth set up of four points and a flat raker is on sale in 12/14 for  $151/189.

   Do you use  stiffeners? I really like their blades and sharpening service.

   hope this helps, Pat

1. 
   mudman | Jun 03, 2006 07:37am | #31

   Those blades can be found for less if you look around on the net. I am considering the Forrest blade as well.

   Thanks mike.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

7. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jun 02, 2006 11:50pm | #30

   Mudman,

   a couple of links from the old days of knots on saw operation might help here.

   http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=2150.14

   http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=2150.59

   From our trade training, RAS are always used with a negative rake blade as it forces the wood down onto the table instead of dragging it onto and (maybe) over the fence.  The above links describe the 'why' in detail.

   Charles,

   Just to confirm my training, is the above statement still the preferred option? 

   Cheers,

   eddie

1. 
   mudman | Jun 03, 2006 07:39am | #32

   What you state is what I hear as well. Really negative hooks cut cleaner in general, but on a table saw they cause dangerous kickback. Of course a RAS uses that to its advantage.

   MikePardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.