Corrugated Soles on hand planes. Some have told me corrugation is to reduce drag when flattening a board. Others have said that is rubbish, the real reason is because in areas of seasonal changes where the iron will change shape, you have less material to remove when flattening.
Anybody have 2 cents??
Replies
Both explanations are plausible reasons for the benefit of a corrugated plane. IMO I find both to be bull. It neither helps reduce drag nor is it a huge time saver in flattening the bed. It's just another marketing ploy used by old plane manufacturers as another feature why their plane was better than the competitions. I use a Stanley 5C that I've found the corrugations to be a perfect nesting space for dried up glue and saw dust/shavings.
It also looks cool.:)Troy
I hear ya. What's even nicer is when you take the plane to a machine shop and have them route the corrugations wider and then infill pieces of rosewood into the grooves.. Now that's cool! : )
mike
I am sure that causes much envy with other tool fondler's, I mean woodworkers. Of course if you wanted to be gaudy you could alternate the rosewood with maple:) To much fun.Troy
Troy,
to make a corrugated sole really look cool, just fill the indentations with epoxy. You can add come color to the epoxy for some nice effects. It is sad that so many woodworkers leave the corrugations empty. MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I thought the grooves were to be filled with bear grease thereby reducing friction and applying the finish simultaneously.
BTW. the books Ray recommended are On Killing, and On Combat by David Grossman a career military psychologist. I was interested in the effects of their experience on our returning vets.Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke
Professor Green,
I agree on the bear grease!Thanks for the names of the books that Ray recommended. When we enter a war, we do NOT think about all of the costs -- such as the effect on the returning soldiers. I am thinking of writing a book, "Woodworking is Hell. God how I love it." MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Great idea, I know Smith & Co. makes a lot of color pigments to add to their epoxy.Troy
Scientifically, I'm sure both reasons are correct but in reality---marketing. I mean if you reduce the surface area then friction must decrease--but not so anyone could actually notice. Same would hold true for the resurfacing issue.
Then again it is another aspect for collectors to covet and get un-naturally excited about.
Regards,
Mack
"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Quote from the November 1939 Stanley Tools Catalogue No 34
"These planes are made exactly like those on the preceding page with the exception that the bottoms are ribbed or corrugated. Some workmen are of the opinion that corrugated bottom Planes slide easier on resinous woods."
I agree.
>I agree.<My experience is that a little bit of paraffin wax on the sole of a bench plane has a HUGE effect - way more than any sort of perceptible difference between corrugated or not. I use the pure paraffin wax that you buy where home canning supplies are sold. $1.19 worth looks like its going to last me about 25-30 years. The bench plane feels like it is just floating on the surface, nipping off the high spots.Do you or did you teach any technique like that? Best, Ed
Edited 7/5/2008 11:03 am by EdHarrison
If he didn't he should.Philip Marcou
Its been a long time since I taught woodworking. I teach Metalworking, Drafting and Photography. I've been collecting and using planes for an equally long time. I do a lot of work with white pine and for some unknown reason generally use a corrugated sole. I believe they perform better although I doubt there has been scientific studies to prove it. Maybe it was simply a sales gimmick used by Stanley to sell more planes,
I haven't used one (someone snapped up the jack before I got it), but I can see the corrugations getting cought on the edge of a board. I don't see any advantage between either type of sole, other than a corrugated sole would be easier to flatten, if need be.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
Lighter plane and less metal used in the making? I like you see no real advantage to them. Also with less material I wonder if they might be weaker?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
It would also require more machining. Tomorrow, I'm going to borrow a friend's Record jointer plane with a corrugated sole to flatten my new benchtop. After flattening the top, I'll have a more informed opinion - practical, not just theoretical.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
One of the cookbook experiments in freshman physics is demonstrating that the total drag is independent of the contact area. Assuming the downward force is constant, the pressure changes with the surface area so it's a wash.
That assumes that the drag is being caused by friction. The rationale for corrugated plane soles is the reduction of suction (caused when two near-plane surfaces are in close contact), rather than friction.-Steve
I'm thinking that if the surface is smooth enough to cause suction, why am I planeing it?
Shouldn't I use my corrugated shellac brush at that point :)
As to the friction, aside from pure Physics, I remember skating on frozen ponds with both hockey and figure skates. I went a lot farther/faster than on the flats soles of my shoes.Maybe we should try hollow ground soles with just the blade touching in the center between two edges. Might work until one side falls off an edge. Kind of reverse scrub plane.
"I'm thinking that if the surface is smooth enough to cause suction, why am I planeing it?"
You get suction even if the surfaces aren't completely flat. Take two boards, at least 6" wide, and lay them together, then try to pull them apart quickly. You can feel the suction as you pull them apart. You do get more suction if the contact surfaces are flat and smooth, but you still get some suction even when they're not.
-Steve
Steve,I was responding more or less tongue in cheek.
IMO, failing more substantive empirical evidence, in my experience, the amount of suction on such a set-up (board to board, Starrett flat) unless they actually are in a finished smooth state, is so minimal as to all together discount it as a viable force. At least not enough to be noticeable in the practical working of the piece.
Rather than board to board, I would think plane to board to be more valid but I can't check that as I sold all my 6" wide corrugated and smooth soled planes :-)When the opposing forces come down to the differences of the relatively short length of a plane (corrugated or otherwise) on a longer board, I think the answer proffered by Lie-Nielsen and others would marginally have the greater validity (friction/resin). Having worked with both on all types of wood, I can't give either any credence. Especially when wax or paraffin enters the equation. IMHO.It is interesting that other than the Craftsman router table years back, and a few older TSs wings, the antique Stanley shooting beds, I haven't seen the use of corrugation on any of the other more modern flat metal surfaces we work with. It's not something I have paid much attention to.Perhaps others have. Regards, John
Granted, the effect is small regardless. But it's observable: Get a decent-sized plane (I just tried it with my LV low-angle jack, whose sole is 2-3/4" × 15"), and a lightweight board roughly the same size as the plane and having a smooth, flat surface (I used a piece of poplar, 3/4" × 2-1/2" × 24"). Back the blade out, so that the sole can rest fully on the board. Now place the board on a couple of "stickers," so that air can get underneath, and place the plane on top. Quickly lift the plane straight up. When you do that, the suction will lift the board up off of its supports (in my case, by 1/4" and sometimes more).
-Steve
Steve,
THose corrugations in the soles. I think they were for the ball bearings.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Won't work. Linear ball bearing mechanisms need some way to recirculate the balls from the back to the front (sort of like when you're rolling a heavy object across a floor using dowels--you need to pick up the dowels that get left behind and shift them to the front).
-Steve
Steve,
Dang, no wonder that thang didn't work.
I plugged the slots with dowels and bondo but couldn't get the blade thingy to hit the wood. Are ¾" dowels too big?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 7/17/2008 2:49 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
You need a thicker iron. Maybe 1" or so. File the mouth to fit.
-Steve
Steve,
those plane soles that you have seen are not the whole mechanism. Originally they had another piece that goes underneath them. The ball bearings went between the two. That should explain it.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Yeah, and the second piece isolated each bearing, so the effect wasn't linear but uh ... um ... uh .... pointier?.
Samson,
It is really good to hear from you.
It has been quite a while.
All is well here. Hope same it true for you.
Next week, my wife and I are going on vacation in Colorado, and all three of our kids and their spouses will be there, and our one grandchild. IT will be on a dude ranch. Should be a hoot. Not much woodworking going on at the dude ranch, but I believe we'll have some fun anyway.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hey, Mel, thanks. I've been around. Maybe just not posting quite as much. I've got too many hobbies!
Have a great trip. It sounds like it'll be a blast.
To add to Steve's comment about suction, wood surfaces are irregular no matter how smooth we plane them, so an ideal-surface friction argument may break down.
d, about 10 years ago I picked up two #5's in a hardware close out-a Stanley and a Record, both post war plastic totes. I upgraded the irons,wood totes/knobs and fine tuned them as smoothers. One was a #5c and I don't remember which as I don't perceive any great difference using them on happy straight grain non very hard woods.
On harder stock a #605c and a #5 Clifton also show little variance. I expect due to the larger foot print my #608c "might" but I will have to find a younger fella with a #8 to dance with that big beauty as I don't dance so fast any more-ha ha ha. All the best, Paddy
Well, I spent about 4 hours tonight surfacing my new benchtop with a corrugated #7 and found no significant difference. I suppose that it makes the plane a little lighter, but that's both good and bad. Bottom line, if both cost the same, I would go with the smooth sole for the extra little mass and no chance of catching a corrugation on the edge of the work.
Boy, I'm going to be sore tomorrow!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
Best medicine is ta git right back in there, but mebbe grap a #5 instead o' #7, at least for a while.
:-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Good idea! I don't have a #5, so off to the store I go!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Here is a quote from Lie-Nielsen.com:
"With some planes, such as a smoothing plane, a corrugated sole can make planing easier by reducing friction between plane and wood, especially resinous woods. "
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
Does this mean I have to get a corrugated sole #4 from LN to go with the non corrugated sole #4 that I already have;)Troy
Maybe. If you need justification, this is as good as any.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
troys,You'll be very grateful next time your planing in the pouring rain and hit a curve...that corrugated bottom really shows its stuff on wet curves...
Thats a new one for me, although I don't think its such a good idea in a thunder storm.:)Troy
I've used both types (#7 and #7c) and haven't noticed much difference in the effort required. If the price is right either will work. That said, my favourite equalizer is to rub the base of every plane with a paraffin candle. Now THAT makes a difference in friction! Neither LV or LN sell candles (no profit margin) so you'll have to find your own supply. :<))
Regards,
Ron
I never noticed one bleedin' bit of difference and I hated how difficult it was to see the cutter on the corrugated plane when trying to adjust its exposure. Probably just my old, tired eyes.
Actually LV does sell citronella candles for their candle lantern. Great for long planing sessions in the yard in the summer.
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=1&cat=2,40731,10318&p=10318Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
THe heck with LV citronella candles.
The hottest items in woodworking now are the Lie Nielsen temporary tattoos.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Paying two cents to be able to read this discussion forum is probable the cheapest (and the funniest), entertainment I have had for quite some time - lmao
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