Reboring a tablesaw moulding head.
woodenfish3
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I am thinking about buying an old 12″ Dewalt RAS. It has nice cast iron arm.
But it has a 1″ arbor.
One of the advantages of the RAS is to be able to use the moulding head.
Mine is 3/4″ bore.
I know it is common to rebore ordinary blades, but I don’t know if it is common to rebore a moulding head easily three times as thick, about 3/8″
If you know if it is easy or if you know someone who regularly does reboring of blades, please find out for me.
Is a 1″ bore moulding head commonly available? Does it at least exist?
Replies
Any capable machinist can open it up on a lathe or a milling machine. If you can measure the shaft of the saw with a micrometer, then give them the measurement so they can get the fit right. If you can't measure, then take the head off the saw and let the machinist check it. You won't end up having to go back if it's too tight to go on the shaft, and you won't get a sloppy fit either.
Personally I would be more comfortable with a molding head (if I had one) in a tablesaw but that's a choice best left to you.
If you are going to have a machinist open it for you, then see what it will cost to have them make a bushing up so that you could also put it in your tablesaw. Gives you another option.
Contact the manufacturer of the moulding head first to be sure it is feasible. It is possible that there will not be enough "meat" remaining around the hub.
Freud America, Inc.
Thanks
I picked up two C-man molding heads for very little money before the prevalence of ebay commerce.
One is very small about 4" in diameter and cuts silky smooth on my TS and even tiny RMS. The other uses only one cutter, somehow it was made to balance in rotation, it does rather well.
I would get one of the larger newer C-man, about 5.5" in diameter thru ebay, for about $20 for reboring if reboring could be done inexpensively. The machinst would need to center it and than rebore.
Now the dado. I think there are one inch bore dado. I'll get onto ebay to see.
Thanks
Typically, 10" and 12" Dado sets such as the SD310 and SD312 are 1" bore.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Sounds doable. Here is a better moulder head to use...
http://www.woodtechtooling.com/Magic_Molder/magic_molder.html
Available in other bore sizes as well for use on a shaper.
Have you considered having a machinest reduce the sixe of the RAS motor spindle? Then you could use the same saws and cutters that you have in the shop.Most of my equipment is old heavy solid stuff that I have rebuilt. I reduced the spindle diameter on the shaper to .750 dia. Now all of my old cutters fit.
It makes more sense to bore the cutters than to reduce the arbor size. Plus it would reduce the value of the saw and make it less safe to use the proper sized cutter. All tooling can be bushed with a $5 dollar bushing. We use lots of tooling interchanably in our shop with bushings.
I may be a little dense,however,if you bore the cutters to fit the saw spindle,I fail to see the need for bushings.~~~Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
With bushings you can put it on 5/8" arbor or 1" arbor. We interchange blades on our Griggio 30mm table saw and Dewalt 1" arbor RAS.
I have ####great RAS and I never use it. Tell me more about the actual
mechanics of using it with a moulding head? Do you use a power feeder with it?
Regards
M.Stehelin
You basically turn the yoke so that the arbor points toward the table.
This is rather severe application. I do it with a lot of caution. The position of the saw along the arm must be fixed very well. I place clamps securely along the arm to fix the position of the saw. I don't rely on the basic friction from a single set screw to fix the saw along the arm.
There are "molding head guards" for the RAS, but I just use a wood setup.
I think it is safe for me, since I take a lot of caution.
This setup is rather like the shaper or router table, but with much larger radius of the "bits" and the height adjustment is from top to bottom. You can have many variations of shapes with different combinations and even angles. This is dangerous if one is not thoughtful.
Edited 12/14/2005 10:50 pm ET by woodenfish3
Edited 12/14/2005 10:52 pm ET by woodenfish3
Edited 12/14/2005 10:53 pm ET by woodenfish3
About 24 years ago, I thought I was very careful and safe too using a molding head on a radial arm saw just as you describe. This resulted in one of my more serious injuries and I feel lucky. The result of a catch while putting a profile on the edge of a piece of oak resulted in:
A huge chunk of flesh ripped out of the palm of my hand from the wood kicking back.
A 6 foot long piece of oak being propelled approximately 40 feet out of the open garage door toward the street. Fortunately, no one was in the way to make this distance shorter.
One of the arms of the molding head bent approximately 2 inches back from its original position with the resulting imbalance caused the RAS to start dancing across the garage floor.
In retrospect, my first mistake was thinking this opeation either was or could be safe. The problems associated with this type of setup is that there is (1) nothing to limit/control the feed rate other than your hands and (2) a molding head design which does not have depth of cut limitation. I don't see a practical way to do this with a power feeder on a RAS which would make it much safer. Please, for your own safety, reconsider this.
I am sorry to hear about your accident.
"(1) nothing to limit/control the feed rate other than your hands and"
How does using the TS differ? As for the router table, one never allows the work to be between the fence and the cutter. The work would not be caught.
"(2) a molding head design which does not have depth of cut limitation. "
On a TS, the cutter can also protrude excessively.
The depth of cut is set by the user in a RAS by the position of the saw along the arm in relation to the fence and is not limited to the table top of a TS. It is necessary that the user is aware of the amount of cut, but depth and width.
It is necessary that the saw does not drift along the arm or a serious accident would happen.
When he said "depth of cut" I assumed he meant that it wasn't anti-kickback design.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Why would the depth of cut be related to the absence or not of anti-kickback design?
The blunt bulky part always recedes toward the sharp part, of course. The cutter spins and the blunt part never touches the work.
In the TS, the table top limits the extent of protrusion.
The RAS is more dangerous for two reasons, IMO.
One, the saw's position is not as firmly fixed. If the saw drifts along the arm a serious accident can happen. I never rely on set screw alone. I fashion large wooden blocks and clamp along the arm to pin down the saw very tightly.
Two, the user can opt to cut too close to the arbor too soon. Ie, the possiblity of cutting too much for someone hasty is greater. Just don't be tempted to cut too much. The RAS cannot take as much thrust as the TS, IMO.
Edited 12/19/2005 6:59 pm ET by woodenfish3
Edited 12/19/2005 7:00 pm ET by woodenfish3
Charles is correct about the lack of anti-kickback design in referring to lack of depth of cut limitation. How much of the cutter is exposed is only one factor, I believe mostly it has to do with the feed rate. If you feed too fast, you will take too much of a bite and can expect it to fly back at you. This is apparently what happened to me as I was using the molding head on the RAS exactly as you described. I now use a spindle shaper with a power feeder for these operations. If you compare most modern router bits or shaper cutters with kickback, the support devices behind the cutting head limit the amount of bite the cutter can take. On a molding head, the cutters extend far beyond the body of the molder and is much larger than the router bit or shaper cutter. This "feature" combined with the lower speed of the molding head (compared to the router or shaper) can get you in a whole lot of trouble fast if you are not careful. You may want to consider looking at the Magic Molder by LRH. If I recall correctly, this molding head does have depth of cut limitation. There may be others, I am just not aware of them.
With respect to the tablesaw, the cast iron top usually results in much less friction to overcome pushing the workpiece as compared with the plywood or particleboard top on a RAS. This should theoretically translate to better, more even control. Don't think that using a molding head on a tablesaw is without risk either. I had a friend loose all 4 fingers on his right hand using a molding head on a tablesaw. They were so mangled, they could not be re-attached. I don't know all the details but, the results were not pretty and were certainly life changing. Whatever you choose to do on this, just please be aware of the risks.
Steve
If you are saying that you have a BIG radial arm saw , as in heavy duty, powerful, and you never use it , this is most unfortunate, as you are missing out on a very useful machine.
Note:I am not talking about some wimpy dewalt r/a saw with flexy rail, or one of those Inca aluminium things.It seems that these days r/a saws have fallen out of favour-the damage has been done by the advent of those wimpy light weight ostensibly do-all saws that would shoot back if the blade got in a bind....
Show us a picture of your saw, M, then we can see what you have (or not).
The r/a saw is not really good for using with a moulding head, especially if it is a wimpy, but it can be done with care , as already pointed out.
Philip Marcou
Philip,
I have a monster old Rockwell. 7 1/2 Hp 3 phase motor- 16 inch blade. 32 inch travel. Starting the saw up sounds like a aircraft motor. I know a RAS is supposed to be a great tool once you have it all set up. But I am unfamiliar with the tool and have never "needed" it. I have recently aquired use of a band saw mill. So I can see using the RAS more often. Plus I have to organise my shop in a manner that would make using it easier. Right now the saw is in a corner by a post.
Cheers,
M.Stehelin
Hi woodenfish3 ,
I have used molding heads to create bead board paneling and other details . I will suggest the RAS is not the most versatile tool for this application . Unless your detail will be all crosscuts , we all know that ripping on the RAS is less than a desirable way to go and ripping a detailed molding could be worse . Just my opinion don't do it . Is there some reason you don't want to run the head on the TS ?
dusty
1. For edge work on wide pieces for some profiles. (Some profiles would work best on a TS even on the edge)
2. For curved edges with a template. This is workable especially with a small molding head. I have one about 4 inches in diameter with the cutters mounted. The guard can a rather large piece of 1/4" plexiglass with a hole near the center and supported rather far away, so that the work can be accomodated. You can make curved raise panals with an RAS and raised panal cutter.
For the same reason that molding on the face is better with a TS; on the edge for certain profiles, the RAS.
Edited 12/15/2005 11:29 am ET by woodenfish3
Edited 12/15/2005 11:33 am ET by woodenfish3
Edited 12/15/2005 11:35 am ET by woodenfish3
Edited 12/15/2005 11:36 am ET by woodenfish3
Here is my take on this subject.
I have an OEM molderhead for a Dewalt RAS sitting in my shop. It is bored to 1" diameter and IIRC the diameter with the four knives installed is about 4 "
IMO the bodies of a 6" Craftsman molder head would
A. Spin too fast for the size/ HP of the machine.
B. put you in a position of great risk due to the potential of shrapnel flying should you hold on to the stock and part or all of the head broke.
JMO
Joe
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