All ,
It was a sad day when my 25 year old Dewalt 10″ chop saw died recently . I have a Makita 1013 sliding saw and love it , but still want to replace my standard chop saw . Any opinions on what is the best one today .
thanks dusty
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Replies
12" is pretty much the standard now. The 10" models are not built as well as the 12" models; not as accurate, poor stops, etc.. I recomend the Dewalt 706 (now the 716). Heck of a saw.
Mike
Mike ,
Thanks , I guess since I own many good quality 10" carbide blades and do mostly furniture and cabinet work I thought a 10" would be o.k. What about using a 10" blade on it , besides losing some capacity in your opinion would the quality of the cuts be as good ?
dusty
I too have the DW 12" slider and would recommend it.
WRT using your 10" blades on it, Probably Can't do it, see edit..... 2 things you'd have to deal with:
1) need to add a platform/raise the table where the work sits by 1" to account for the smaller diameter blade.
==========================
EDIT (not enough sleep, not enough coffee)
WAIT , they don't make a negative bushing yet. Big arbor, small hole, no can do,
2) need a bushing to adapt the 5/8" blade hole to the 1" saw arbor.
Edited 11/3/2005 11:34 am ET by sharpblade
Unfortunately a smaller blade will not work because all the saws I've seen have a stop for the down position. In other words when you "chop" the blade will be 2" above the table.
Mike
As for the blades you have.... a real miter saw blade is a pretty specific blade. It is not the same as the crosscut blade you would use on a table saw. The blade that works best in a miter saw would have no real use on a table saw.
Mike
"The blade that works best in a miter saw would have no real use on a table saw." I'm not sure that's altogether correct, mudman. Blades for sliding miter saws are very specifically designed, but many of the blades that are recommended for miter saws, by Freud anyway -- they are the line I'm most familiar with -- are cross-referenced for table saws also. IIRC, it's the hook angle that's critical on the sliding MS blades, with a negative hook being preferred.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I have only a working knowlage about blade geometry so I just buy what Forrest says is the best for a given application. Their miter saw blade is different from their cross cut table saw blade. Miter (chop) and sliding saws cut very different from all other saws because the plunge in from the top and try to cut a LOT of material at once, wheare as RAS and TS cut material "the easy way". Granted the practical differences are unlikely to be all that great, but to me the miter saw blade is the most importaint in my shop. Any thing that I rip will get sanded or scraped so the finish off the saw is not that big a deal to me. However it is damn near imposible to sand the end of a piece of 1x2 without rounding the edges, so I want my cuts on the miter/ radial arm saw to be perfect.
Mike
Mike ,
Thanks for your information , the 10" blade I have been using on my chop saw is a Freud 10" 80 tooth teflon coated blade , and has given me many many years of service and produced flawless cuts in all types of materials . I think it is a triple chip with little set to the teeth . I have about 30 years experience as a professional and depending on the material to be cut and the quality of cut desired a person can use a blade designed for the table saw , an example would be if I an chopping a bunch of 2x4s a person may not want to dull a good finish blade . So if I used a 1" auxiliary table that will make up for the difference from 12" to 10" the way I figure .
thanks dusty
"So if I used a 1" auxiliary table that will make up for the difference from 12" to 10" the way I figure ." What about the arbor size? That was the roadblock I ran into when wishing to put a 10" "Ultimate Cut-off" blade on the 12" Bosch. Drat! Such a drag.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hey Forestgirl ,
I forgot about the arbor size being larger on a 12" blade , so I guess I'd have to use an adaptor . I think I will take a good look at the Bosch as you suggested . The other thought was to pay any amount to have my old relic rebuilt if the parts are still available . I really wanted to move forward and up grade , but it sounds as though 10" chop saws are not so hat any more .
thanks for your help on this matter
dusty
" ...What about the arbor size?..."Get yerself an engine lathe and turn it out to the required diameter! (grin)
I agree with mudman on the 12" vs. 10" saw issue. Bought a Bosch 12" CMS last year after looking, and looking, and looking. The 10" saws just seemed flimsy in comparison. Yeah, it cost me a little to get a couple of blades for the bulk of the work, but the solid feel of the Bosch and it's ability to hold accurate settings made the extra $$ seem insignificant. And I love the extra capacity.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
You wrote a blanket statement that "the 10" saws just seemed flimsy in comparison." Can't tell from this statement which saws you are talking about. Are you saying that all 10" saws are flimsy? I'm confused.I owned a Bosch 10" slider and before that a Bosch 10" chop saw, and both were fantastic. I then had a 12" Bosch slider and it had greater capacity, but the 10" was certainly not "flimsy."Perhaps Forestgirl could tell us which 10" saws she actually used. I'm sure she has experience to back up her statement.Here's a review I wrote in 2000 about the Bosch 10" slider:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000223EO/002-3353746-2592816?v=glance&n=228013&n=1000&s=hi&v=glance
Edited 11/4/2005 11:13 am ET by MatthewSchenker
Here's another vote for the DeWalt 706, 12" DCMS. It comes with a thin-kerf blade, but I replaced it with a full-kerf for a bit more stability. Like you, I had a stock of 10" blades -- they still fit my tablesaw. I went to the 12" saw for the additional capacity.
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I have a DeWalt DW703 which is a "Heavy Duty 10" Compound Miter Saw" (according to DeWalt). I have not had a lick of trouble out of it and it has been very accurate and repeatable. It runs about $200 and in my comparison to other 10" saws (many of which were in the $100-$250 price range) it seemed to be much more solid in build and adjustment. I have used (not owned) a larger, older Makita and a 10" Ryobi. Both did their jobs just fine, but I would buy the DeWalt again.
In my mind, the main limitation of a 10" saw is not depth of cut but width of cut. A 12" saw helps this, but a sliding saw (or radial arm saw) fixes the problem even better (at a higher price) or you could build a crosscut sled for the table saw.
The Dewalt 10" saw is certiantly a great saw. However if you compare the locking mech. , the detent stops, and the ease of adjustment there are diferences.
Mike
No doubt there are structural differences between the 10" AND 12". There should be for a sticker price of $200 for the 10" vs. $380 for the 12". For me the 10" was the right saw, for others, a 12" would be. I guess I could say that in the realm of 10" saws, my research pointed to the DW703 as the best saw to meet my needs. I am sure there are many other fine 10" saws out there Bosch, Makita, etc. I did not consider 12" saws, so I have little to add about which one is best (but I have used a monster 14"? Makita).
FWIW you can go to Amazon and check out tool reviews. Like any internet source, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff and realize that reviews are written folks with a broad diversity of skills, experience levels, and applications. Still, it appears that if a product is a piece of junk, you can usually ferret it out through the reviews. Good luck with your search.
Edited 11/4/2005 12:04 pm ET by K1500
K1500 ,
Thanks for your opinion on the Dewalt . Mine has been a wonderful tool for over 25 years , so looking at a new Dewalt is not scary to me . I know over time things change and regardless of brand name , quality can and does change unfortunately. I too have no use for a chop saw larger than 10" , since I also own a Makita 1013 dual sliding saw for larger type of cuts . And the fact that I have so darn many high quality 10" blades that are valued way more then a new saw is , keeps me leaning towards a new 10" model .
thanks to all
dusty
Hi dusty; I have the Dewalt 703, and when I bought it, I tried out quite a few 10in. chop saws, inc. the Makita, and the Bosch, and for me the Dewalt stood out from the competition in a few ways, so I bought it. I'm still very impressed with this saw today, and the only one I would trade it for would be the dual bevel model.(I shouldn't have cheaped out.)
I now have the Makita LS 1013 SCMS that I've wanted for years, but wouldn't buy it untill the price went down. It's a great saw, but I still keep my best finish blade in the Dewalt, and use use it for my fine cutting.
The statments made that the 12in. chop saws are built better, stronger, and will deliver more precision cuts than the 10in., I have to disagree with. Weather it's a Dewalt, Bosch or Makita, the 10s, and 12s are the same machines, built to the same standards, except one is built to hold a ten in. blade, and the other will hold a 12in. The only real argument that has been made in terms of accuracy between the two is that, in certain circumstances you may experience more blade drift with a 12in. blade, over a 10in.
As to the different features, I think older models are being compared to newer ones. When I bought mine, the features on both were the same, as they are on the new ones
I've noticed most of the big name saws are sale priced are sale priced right now to make way for new models, so nows the time to get one for a good price.
Good Luck. Walker1
I agree. 12 inchers are NOT built better, more accurate, etc.
Makita -- period!! Great stuff.
Planesaw
I'm a fledgling woodworker, looking to buy my first miter saw. And before I get to set up a shop, I need to do trim for the room it's going to be in. So, I've had my eyes on the Makita ls 1013, figuring it would be good for the trim and good for later. Would you suggest a simpler, smaller saw instead? It surprises me that you have two and use both of them.
Hi Linda; Your instinct's are right on. The Makita LS 1013 is a great choice, and IMO the best SCMS on the market. And no I don't think you should buy a lesser saw if you can afford the Makita.
I bought the Dewalt CMS saw years ago, when the sliding saws were a lot more money, and I couldn't justify the cost. I finally found a deal on the Makita LS 1013 that I couldn't refuse. I still use the Dewalt because, with the combination of the Dewalt's higher RPM, and the Forrest Chopmaster blade I put in it, I get flawless cuts, and miters, even with the smallest pieces, but I do a majority of my cutting with the Makita.
I keep the 60T combo blade that that the Makita came with, on it most of the time. I'm not a fan of combo blades normally, but this one delivers surprisingly good quality cuts.
Using the two machines this way means less blade changing. I do a lot of reno work on my house as well, and wouldn't want all that wear and tear on my Forrest blade. So those are the reasons I still use my Dewalt.
Having said all that, if I could have only one, it would be the Makita, no question They are bringing out new models right now, so now is the time to get deal one. I paid $459.00 can. for mine.
One more thing. Whichever one you choose, make sure it's Dual Bevel.
Cheers. Shawn
Hey thanks for all the good advice... and the validation! Now I can't wait to get that Makita 1013. And now... care to add a few words about where to install it? I've seen some cool plans for chop saw stations, but can't get anything like that built before we do the trim to complete the room. I've seen contractors jury rig great temporary stands on sawhorses, etc., but not sure that would work. I know someone who wants to sell me his DeWalt DW73 miter saw stand at a good price, but don't know that that's the way to go.
Hi Linda; If it were me I would skip the miter saw stand. They work for jobsites, but not for homeshops. In my opinion, anything that takes a footprint that size should have nice storage underneath.
Building a nice mitersaw station is a fun project, and there are lots of different plans available, if you do some searches. I know there is a nice one on NYW website. But until you finish your shop, I would stick with something simple and moveable. My favorite temp. benches are old interior flat panel doors, and sawhorses. I can usually get those doors new at the lumber yard for about $8.00 each.
I set the mitersaw in the middle of the bench/door, and take some 1x2 or whatever, and screw down a border around the base of the saw just snug so theres no slop, and then add supports at each end of the bench the same height as the base of the saw.Then on the underside of the bench screw down two rails at each end to receive the tops of the sawhorses. Drop the bench on the sawhorses where the rails receive them, then drop the saw in the border/base you made, and you have a quick and stable mitersaw station, that you can throw up against a wall to get it out of the way. It's great for using to work outside on nice days as well.
Cheers. Shawn
I'm with Walker on this one. I bought the Bosch 12" CMS last year, with the stock support extensions (what? 12" maybe) and don't feel any big need to build or buy a space-consuming stand. I've cut boards up to 10' long with no problem. Only thing I might do is buy another stock hold-down to put on the right-hand side for the big cuts.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'm late to the table here, but just wanted to add my voice in support of the makita 1013. It is a fine saw, made better by a great blade that comes with your purchase -- glass smooth cuts. With a lot of other saws you pretty much have to pony up an additional $60-80 for a blade, at least if you want a first rate cut. As for your questions about work stations. they can be pretty simple. A set of horses, a scrap of plywood (8' long by 20-24" wide), or maybe an old hollow core door (because they're light), and some blocks to support the pieces you are cutting. For the blocks, I use scraps of plywood -- maybe 6-8" wide X 12" long. Lay this scrap flat on a table and nail another scrap to this piece at a 90 degree angle -- one that has been ripped to match the height of your saw's platform . I don't even bother to screw them down; I just move them around for the stock I am cutting.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Thanks for your advice... I actually already ordered the saw and it arrived yesterday and I'm setting it up this weekend. I have a couple of old kitchen cabinets from a friend and I'm thinking of installing it on top of a base cabinet, using roller stands until I make some collapsible wings or some such. But if the cabinets aren't the right size, heft, etc., I'll go with the saw horse plan, at least for now.
Sounds like a plan. The kitchen base cabinets should be about 34", which with a top of some sort, would be about the right height for a saw stand, depending on how tall you are. If you have two such cabinets, you could set them apart, bridged by a 2' X 8' piece of ply -- if you have the room. Good luck.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
notDusty,
No problem. Another gripe I have anecdotally heard about the bigger (12") saws is the accuracy/blade wander/blade deflection problem. There is a thread over in BT right now where a bunch of trim carpenters are discussing their preference for the smaller saws due to weight and accuracy (and there are some that love the big saws too).
It was too far in the past for me to effectively comment on the accuracy issue with respect to the big Makita (and I imagine full vs. thin kerf blades have a lot to do with it too). Just another point to ponder I guess. It was not a material point in my decision making process so I did not really consider it. I suppose I would have liked a larger saw at the same quality and price as the 10" (impossible) but I have not regretted the capacity of my 10" at all. If anything, in my shop I can see a 10" (or smaller) slider being more useful than a 12" non-slider (I have yet to do much crown however).
K1500 & Walker ,
Thanks for sharing your personal experiences with me on this one , sounds as though our needs are similar . A close friend and fellow wood butcher told me he bought the 12" Dewalt and had problems with blade drift and what seemed like less accuracy and less quality of the finished cuts , at least in comparison to his old old Makita 10" . Believe it or not he ended up taking the Makita to our local power tool repair guru and paid $150 bucks or so to have it completely reborne. He then offered me the new 12" for a cheap price , I passed . Well from the sounds of it I am not the only one facing this challenging decision .
thanks to all very much
dusty
Dusty, maybe someone already mentioned this, but I just noticed that the DeWalt 705S accepts both 1" and 5/8" arbor sizes.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
forestgirl ,
That's a practical and handy feature . I am pretty well convinced to buy a new 10" the best I can try out . My friend said he took a few pieces of wood and asked to try them before he purchased one . Thanks , dusty
General makes a 12" cross sliding table saw. Cross cut distance and amperage is larger than most models. A little costly but I would buy it again.
Very pleased with my 8.5" Hitachi.
Kev
I own a dewalt 12". I recently bought a new Dewalt 8.5" sliding saw for cutting wide crown moulding on the flat. The 8.5" saw deflect very little and is as superior saw for the type of work I do, furnituremaking. Tearout is minimal when mitering delicate mouldings. The 12" saw has its virtues. Very useful for cutting 4x4s and cutting some crown moulding. Both saws are slightl over 40 lbs. The slide saw is more compact and easier to move. Still, weight and compact design should be something to look at, especially if your body is not strong. 12" slide saws are more heavy than I care to use, and I am in good shape.
I'm curious, what saw did you buy?
I read this thread, was a bit amazed at the talk that 12" saws are somehow better built then 10" saws.
I don't know where anybody gets that idea. I cant for the life of me imagine there being any truth to it. I think some on here make general statements without any info to back it. And a few are just brand loyal and haven't even seen, not to mention used, other brands.
I am in need of a new slider, like you I have all the 10" expensive blades and not really willing to go out and spend a lot of money on 12" blades.
I'm leaning towards the Makita or the Hitachi saw.
Doug
I'm with you on the hogwash about 10" vs. 12" saws. There's a lot of poor information floating around the "new" Knots it would seem.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
"There's a lot of poor information floating around the "new" Knots it would seem." That wive's tale is way older than the new Knots.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
But then again, we all get to form our own opinions and impressions..........********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Hi Doug ,
Well , as of yet I have not purchased a new 10" chop saw yet. But I have a Makita LS 1013 slider and imo this is a top notch tool that is a pleasure to use and own . The original Makita blade that comes with the saw produces way good cuts . Not so sure it gets any better then this one .
I'll let you know on the chop saw
dusty
Hi DougU and All ,
My ancient DeWalt 10" chop saw has been repaired with new brushes and a cleaning and deburring of the swing arm , and is BACK in service !
Ya All worried the heck out of me with which one to buy , sheesh .
Oh yeah the repair bill was $67 dollars .
a happy new year to all dusty
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