Replies

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Dec 27, 2005 05:10pm | #1

   I face the same issue next week. As I use WB poly (see other posting) I plan to DYE water mixed wood filler and make that my first application. I am anxious to see your other posts.

   JF

1. 
   arkriver | Dec 27, 2005 11:12pm | #2

   I had a wreck doing what you are doing so there must be a better way. I used a grain filler then applied a Danish oil fruitwood. It seemed to work OK on a sample but not on the real deal. I did a lot of xtra sanding and scraping and then used a gel stain to get the color I wanted. The more I use stains the more I believe that God made woods in different colors so don't mess with what he created. Allyn

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Dec 28, 2005 05:29pm | #6

   Thanks for the heads-up1 I don't need anymore trouble than I already have.I normally buy my wood from a loacl outfit (Armstrong Lumber). They are very good. A friend suggested Niagara Lumber on the internet. Being busy at home with the holidays, I ordered 80 bd. ft. Got in TWO days! Great. But - the stuff has more crooks and bends than old spaghetti. As it is presurfaced 4/4 stock, it arrives at about 13/16". Not a lot of room to flatten the bad material. I guess I'll rescue as much as I can and go buy makeup stock from Armstrong's. Then - I'll start the finishing. Not really how I planned on devoting the majority of my time on this assignment.Jerry

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 28, 2005 01:31am | #4

   Some waterborne pore fillers will except dye, and others, not so well.  You can still use the waterborne fillers over dye or stain, and you can also tint it.  (Though using universal tinting colors, not oil paint.)

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 28, 2005 01:28am | #3

   Go directly to the stain, without a coat of shellac first.  Red oak doesn't need a pre-stain sealer since it doesn't blotch.  After the stain has been well cured, you can then apply an oil-based wood filler.  If pigment is added to the filler--I usually use artists oil paint--the filler will act almost like another coat of stain, though it will color the pores because you are wiping it off across grain.  If your sample shows this becoming too dark, then you could put a 1 lb. coat of dewaxed shellac before using the filler.  Oak has very large pores and may require two coats of pore filler.  Give plenty of curing time for the pore filler, both between coats and before applying the top coats.

   You are right to use a varnish top coat.  Over pore filler, the top coat should be a film finish, an oil finish doesn't work right in that context. 

   Variations are possible.  You could dye the oak first to establish the base coat, then a coat of 1 lb. cut dewaxed shellac, and then the pigmented pore filler.  When cured you could apply the varnish top coat. 

   Work through the entire finish--including top coat, on scrap of the same wood as the project to be sure you are liking how it is turning out. 

1. 
   michael_j | Dec 28, 2005 02:35am | #5

   Hey Steve,Yes, I tried a sample starting with the stain and omitting the shellac. I was kinda using the shellac to clog up some of the pores since the stain is a pigmented stain (Mohawk Cherry Paparica Wiping Stain) and I wanted to diminish some of the late wood effect. That sample is pretty close to the mantel I'm matching (BTW, it doesn't help matters that the painter "slopped" on the stain with absolutley no knowledge at all of what he was doing. This happens a lot around here with production houses. I'll probably make the clock then offer to remake the mantel for free because they are very good friends.)I do indeed take my samples through the entire finishing process. I have some Bartley's pore filler (natural) and I've been satisfied with the results in other pieces. Ditto on the oil with oak. Been there, done that.When you mention artists oil paint are you referring to the stuff in the tubes that can be purchased at an artist shop? I've added these to oil-based stains but have not tried it with the oil-based pore filler. Might have to give that a fly and see if it floats.Anyhoo, thanks for answering my question about when to apply the pore filler in the finishing process and for adding all the great tips on finishing. I really appreciate your time.Warmest regards,
   Michael

3. 
   forestgirl | Dec 31, 2005 08:22am | #7

   "What I would LIKE to do, is apply some type of grain filler to this process."  A grain filler would be used in order to get a "glass smooth" finish (usually).  As an optional solution, have you considered wet-sanding instead.  I like to stain red oak with Danish oil and wet-sand it in.  Partially fills the pores, and lessens any tendency for the DO to bleed out.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   michael_j | Jan 01, 2006 12:16am | #8

   Hey ForestGirl,Yes, I have considered Danish Oil and wet sanding it in. I've done that on other woods and it came out great. I don't really like the idea of oil in the oak because of the bleeding factor, but I haven't dismissed it totally. My samples have indicated a good finished feel using a couple coats of shellac and I have a couple pounds of flakes on hand. I'll probably opt for the shellac. After all, it IS a grandfather clock and ya ain't supposed to be up there stroking the thing anyways. I'll post some pics in April when the three of them are done.Nice forum here and I really appreciate all the responses to my question. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.Have a great New Year!
   Warmest regards,
   Michael

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 01, 2006 01:51am | #9

   Michael, I made a shadow-box type display case (for a signed sports jersey) a couple of years ago out of red oak and used the wet sanding and Watco.  It worked great.  I had virtually no bleeding.  Can't tell you how happy I was when it was done, because earlier experiences with Watco and red oak were not happy pictures....  If memory serves, I let it cure and put a final coal of poly on it.

   "Warm and fuzzy"   Hmmmm, be careful, just about the time you think it's safe to feel warm and fuzzy around here, someone has a meltdown and lights into ya, ROFL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   YesIWood | Jan 07, 2006 11:30am | #10

   MJ,

     I see you have a lot of responses to your original question.  When I finish Red Oak I finish by sanding, use of aniline dye (to pop the grain), 1# cut of de-waxed shellac, then a pigment stain, then finish with a wiping Varnish/Poly.  I am in the process of trying different methods.  I'm going to try Forest G's sanding with watco. 

     Finishing is so important, I am determined to get better at it.

   Practice makes perfect,

   Joe

   Is it really saw dust or wood dust?

1. 
   michael_j | Jan 07, 2006 04:08pm | #11

   Hey Joe,Yep, recieved lots of great suggestions. I have so many different samples curing on my kitchen counter that wife says she thinks we are getting enough "fiber" in our diets and I can remove these pieces to a place where the sun don't shine. Gotta love that woman!Thanks for your reply, Joe.Warmest regards,
   Michael