I need a spray, or wipes, or something, that will neutralize the static that builds up on Plexiglas. Just long enough that I can get bits of sawdust off and put something together without going nuts. Seems like there was once a post here describing such a solution, but I’ve not been able to find it.
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
FG
Try Staticguard spray.
Rich
The Professional Termite
Try wiping with dryer sheets.
Joe Phillips
Plastics pay the bills, Woodworking keeps me sane!
Joe, where have you been? Hadn't seen you post for a long time. Thanks for the dryer sheet idea. What do you think about StaticGuard? I'm a little uneasy about using any spray, even if it's on a cloth first.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl,
I have been busy with my full time job making shower heads. I spend most of my time here reading and learning after I leave my favorite forum, (http://www.plastics.com). The site is the best place to get your plastic questions answered.
What are you trying to do with the plastic? If all you want to do is clean it, you could also use computer screen cleaner. If you are going to glue it, use the dryer sheets. There is a lot of static and dust in the wood shop. Go outside.
By the way, when I get home tonight I should have a stack of freshly milled cherry to sticker for drying.
Please Mother Nature no rain today.
Joe Phillips
Plastics pay the bills, Woodworking keeps me sane!
Edited 6/12/2003 7:12:47 AM ET by Joe the Plastics Man
I use a product called Brillianize. It works well. Spray it on and wipe it off. It polishes plex too.
To minimize the amount of dust on the plastic just peel paper off around the edges. I trim the curl off with a razor blade. Carefull not to scratch the exposed acrylic. Peel the rest off after it's assembled.
At work we use an ion gun. It's an air amplifier with a gizmo that produces negative charge. It's also good for shooting toliet paper all over the shop.
Len
Len, that TP thing sounds like too much fun! I, too, keep the blue film on until the last minute, generally. Took it off one side too early this time, and got some sawdust and a few bits of silicone on the Plexi. Figure if I'm going to be working with Plexi, might as well get whatever it is I need in stock.
Where do I get Brillianize??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie,
I would not use dryer sheets as they will probably scratch the plexi surface. Staticguard is nothing but Deionized water. It will not harm the plastic a bit.
TDF
Edited 6/11/2003 8:12:18 PM ET by Tom Ferreira
Why does Static Guard smell then? Is it the propellant? That's the characteristic that made me hesitate.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
There is probably a perfume in some versions. As i tell my wife...they are rated E. I'll bet you can get an unscented.
TDF
I buy it from a local plastic supplier. Do have a Tap plastics near by? Their website has local retailers listed.
You can order it direct.
http://www.brillianize.com/products.htm
You might be able to get it at Mcmaster-Carr but you never know what your getting there until it arrives.
I've done that too. I have attached low tac masking paper and taped to the edges.
Len
Forest Girl,
I use Pledge Grab It (dry type - not wet mop) to remove the static sawdust from the Lexan shield on my TS over arm guard. I also use them on machine tops - and they're excellent as a quick tack cloth.
View Image
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
I use these in my store, but have had them scratch Plexiglas display shelves. Didn't want to take a chance.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Ground your self Girl!
Attach a very fine wire to the nearest metal pipe
and the other end to your 'bracelet' This is what they use in electronic work, where static electricity'can ruin delicate electronic components.
The reason I suggest fine wire is so in the event you walk away before removing your 'wristlet', it will break (The wire, not your wrist)
Note:Wristlet must be metal Stein
Grounding, huh? That presents a humorous picture. Actually, thinking about it, the garage/shop has no metal pipes (actually no pipes of any kind). Might have to ground myself to an outlet or the electrical box? Oooooo, I dunno. Think I'll try the Brillianize!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I think a wrist grounding strap and clip may be a bit too much. You can get them cheap at Radio Shack and many other places. A required tool for working on or even cleaning inside of electronic items. I have two of them, one at work and one at home.
I work more with glass than plexi but have found a couple of good cleanings with Windex works fine.
Enjoy, Roy
F-G
Do you use plexi-glass for your display cabinets? I am making a couple of large shadow boxes, and was consdiering using it instead of glass for weight control, but wondered whether it looked OK on close inspection.
TY
Stan
Hi Stan. I was originally going to use glass, but my first clients asked specifically for plexi, for the reason you cite -- weight reduction. For the 2nd case, which is displayed in my retail store, I stayed with the Plexi. It looks fine now, but I know we'll have to be careful not to scratch it when dusting.
If I was making smaller cases (these are 32"H x 24"W) for something more elegant than sports jerseys, I'd probably use glass. What's going in your shadow boxes??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You want to be really careful with plexi for closed cases. I know of a woman who turned a $10,000 antique doll into a $100 doll by putting it in a plexi case. The problem is that the plexi begins to outgas acrylic acid as soon as you peel the blue protective sheet off, and continues to do so for a couple of years. If the inner surface is in a fairly air tight compartment, the acid is concentrated enough to attack any metal ions in the pigments of paints, inks, or whatever else is in the case. Old baseballs and such that were autographed with an ink pen ( the ink is black because of the carbon in the ink) are very vulnerable.
Of course, after a couple of years the plexi will have finished the outgassing process and begin the yellowing & crazing process, followed by the cracking process.
I've made quite a few cases in both shadow box and in "picture frame" configuration for sports jerseys, letter jackets, autographed footballs and such like, using ssb glass (.085 inches thick) and had no problem.
Glass also changes its chemical structure. It eventually becomes crystal but the process usually runs to a couple of hundred years. I've told clients that my work comes with a lifetime guarantee -- my life, not their life. I've never had to make good on a gurarantee so far.
good luck
Thanks for the alert on the acrylic. I'll pass the info along to both the jersey owners and see if they want to change the plexi out for glass. [PS: The signatures are in "Sharpie" ink -- does that fall into the same vulnerable category?]
What does the "ssb" stand for??
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/15/2003 1:11:36 AM ET by forestgirl
I believe that "Sharpie" and all other permenent ink markers use an alcohol-soluable dye. Whether that'd be affected by the gassing off... I dunno.
Regards,
Kevin
Sorry for the jargon. Glass is referred to in several ways, but today's glass is "float glass", and ssb stands for "single strength [mind just went blank]" That is standard window pane glass, and is .085 inches thick. The other is dsb, which is "double strength [same word]", and is 1/8 inch (sometimes called .125 inches) thick.
When you get into annealed, tempered, and so on, you get into stuff only a glass user or chemist would care about.
I don't know about Sharpie ink. The problem with so many things is that there are ions of metals in the dye. I'm not a chemist, so I don't know, but suppose there is some copper compound in a blue dye. The acrylic acid could react with it to change the color of the object. Old ink was essentially finely divided carbon in a water suspension. That's why you used to have to "blot" whatever you'd written with ink, lest the writing smear before the water evaporated.
The old doll I was telling about had a paint over the bisque to simulate skin color, and when the lady took it out of the case, the surface was all gummy and tacky because of the reaction of the acid with some component of the paint. Generally, if you wouldn't want to get vinegar or lemon juice on it, don't put it in a closed acrylic case.
Hope this helps,
Henry VIII
After I logged off last night, I was thinking about the collectors' supplies sold by the big outfit called PKK -- their line consists of everything from 9-pocket sheets for card collections to screw-down card holders to bat and ball holders. With the exception of the 9-pocket sheets, these are all made from acrylic. They tout the UV protection that's provided, so perhaps there's some modification of the material from the regular Plexi we buy. I'll have to track down Joe the Plastics Man and get his input.
Is there any possibility that other parts of the doll case contributed to the problem? Finish products or whatever?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It could well be that the cases you see for sale are either coated with a film like window tinting to provide uv protection, or that the acrylic has some added ingredient or modification to the formula.
I worked at a local Department of Defense contractor for several years, lastly in antennas & non-metallics, where I was pretty much on the cutting edge of materials tech. Five years ago started doing wood work full time, so I am perhaps a little out of date on the latest and greatest.
The doll was definitely harmed by the acrylic acid. The owner raised nine kinds of Cain and tried to sue someone over it, but without any success. There are other stories from the doll people, including one where a woman told me she had carelessly let the doll's wig (artificial) rest against the case. Probably had it in the sun, too. Anyway, the wig fused to the acrylic after a few months.
The problem arises only where the case or enclosure is nearly air tight, so the outgas can accumulate to some critical concentration. Bear in mind also that old stuff was made using things like ivory and gutta-percha rather than the long-chain polymers we have nowadays.
I hope you'll post what you learn about this. If things have changed, I'd like to know. If you can get a Larson - Juhl catalog from your local frame shop, it has a good bit of info about different kinds of uv protectant glass, etc.
Wow, thanks for the information. I am making 24x32 shadow boxes for displaying old childhood clothes with photographs of the people in them. I see the potential off-gassing problem. Maybe vent holes would prevent the problem?
Can you just go to glass instead of Plexi, Stan? With the photos in there, it might be better not to take the chance. Also, you're going to want to be very careful about UV light. You can get UV protectant glass.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks F-G, yes, I just went and got another piece of glass for the first frame. I was hoping to avoid adding to my pile of broken glass by using plastic. (does anyone make a really foolproof glass cutter?)
"foolproof glass cutter" -- I usually buy my glass at the local small-town hardware store, they cut it for free and I don't have to buy their broken stuff! Of course, for resale, I may not be able to afford that.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Before you all get rid of all your plexiglas,stop and consider something.Plexiglas is used throught the world by museums in exhibit cases and for some artifact mounts.If museums use it, shouldn't it also be safe for the uses described in this thread?
I build exhibit cases, among other things, for a natural history museum.In the course of that work, I deal with what materials to use, and we are very concerned about using the right materials, ones that will not harm the object on exhibit.I can tell you that Plexiglas, and other brands of acrylic,is an acceptable material from a conservation standpoint, according to all the sources I am familiar with.We use it all the time for exhibit cases and artifact mounts. There are certain types of materials that it should not come in contact with,but it is perfectly acceptable to use it for glazing,as described earlier in this thread.
I think the problem with the doll was NOT caused by the Plexi,but by some other material in the case, or even the doll itself.The fact that the case was air tight concentrated the harmful gases within the case, and probably contributed to the doll's deterioration.
Therefore,I'd feel safe in recommending Plexi for glazing in the cases described.
UV filtering plexi is a good idea, but by itself will not prevent objects from fading.The overall light level is what you need to consider, not just the UV.
BTW, we use Brillianize to clean all our plexi cases.
Hope this helps.
Rick W.
Thanks, Rick, for bringing another viewpoint. One of things I like about my design for the jersey cases is that the jersey does not come into contact with anything in the case except acid-free matboard in the back. Many jersey cases are actually like large Riker (sp?) cases, very shallow, the the Plexi (or whatever plastic) flat down on the jersey. I keep about 2" between the matboard and the glass.
Thanks again for stopping by.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Pretty close to foolproof. I've wasted very little glass or mirror using a Toyo brass handled carbide wheel oil cutter. The real trick, though, is to use running pliers to break the glass after you've scored it. Fletcher makes running pliers, as do others.
Another trick is to score the glass and then break it as soon as you can get it lined up in the pliers. I keep the pliers at hand, and pick them up as soon as I have scored it. It may be a myth, but I've been told that the heat and stress lines created by the scoring process help keep the break straight.
These items are available from Sommer & Maca, which have distribution centers all over the country. The cutter is about $30.00 but is a one time buy - - the cutter heads are replaceable, as are the cutting wheels themselves. They last a long time, if you keep oil in the reservoir.
Hope this helps.
I'm at work, sans catalogs. What are "running pliers?"forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
There are two basic types. One has jaws that are curved across the end of the jaws. It is a little hard to describe, but if you are looking at the end of the pliers where you'd usually grab something, they are curved in a gentle arc with the high side in the center (side to side) of the jaw.
The other kind I've seen have either a point halfway across one jaw and two points on the edges of the other jaw.
The idea is to score the glass and then put the "high" side of the curve on the score, squeeze, and thereby cause stress on the edge of the piece of glass downward on either side of the score line. Most of them have a mark on the top jaw to use when you are aligning them to make the break. Center the line on the score, make certain the jaws are perpendicular to the edge of the glass (on the edge where you ended the score) and squeeze.
Note: These are different from "Breaking pliers" which are used on thick (3/8 to 1/2 inch) glass. The technique for them is different. Running pliers are good for anything up to about 1/4 inch thick.
Hope this helps,
Henry
Helps alot! I've got a big stockpile of glass that I could use for various things when the time comes, but no experience yet with cutting it. These are very specialized pliers, I like that.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl,
Out gassing can be reduced by taking the plastic and putting it into a preheated oven @ 150 F for 4 hours. This will accelerate the out gassing. Be careful because the infrared rays can raise the temp above the softening point of around 200 F. Put 2 layers of foil, shinny side down, on the lower rack of the oven placing the Plexi on the upper shelf. If you have a hand held digital thermometer that records peak temp, leave it in the oven for an hour to ensure that the oven will not over shoot 190 F.
Joe Phillips
Plastics pay the bills, Woodworking keeps me sane!
Thanks for the info Joe. These sheets are too big for my oven, but I'll remember that for other items though. Given that today's jerseys are synthetic, probably polyester?, I'd thnk there would be less danger as far as the actual material is concerned. Still, though, I think I'll check into glass prices.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've been watching this for a while and I don't want to offend anyone but I think there needs to be a couple of corrections.
"Glass also changes its chemical structure. It eventually becomes crystal but the process usually runs to a couple of hundred years."
Glass is amorphorus crystal. It doesn't change it's chemical structure. It behaves like a liquid over hundreds of years. That's why glass windows in old homes sag.
Most display cases sold as acrylic are actually polycarbonate. Polycarbonates are UV resistant. However, if you put them in direct sunlight they will degrade but not as fast as acrylic. Sometimes plastic manufacturers add an additional UV inhibitor to polycarbonates. ie. headlights.
We use acrylic for all our display cases. (We have hundreds of displays cases.) Some of them are 20 plus years old. None of the items that have been on display in them has every shown damage due to outgassing. Due to some carelessness, items have been damaged due to sunlight, (UV).
If you have really old items and are worried about them. (I would be.) Display them, like a museum. Use a small fan, with a filter, for positve pressure in the case and use glass. But for the most part acrylic is fine. Just keep it out of direct sunlight.
FWIW.
Len
Len, I finally found UltraPro's web site (PKK was bought by UltraPro a couple years ago). Couldn't ferret out whether they use acrylic or poly, but here's the blurb from their ball holder info:
I guess I could tell which material it is by konking one with a hammer -- doesn't Plexi shatter more than poly?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Len,
My apologies for the "glass changes its chemical..." You're right; I misspoke. I should have said that it changes its physical structure at a molecular level.
What I was trying to say was that glass is not crystal, but it will, given enough time, become a crystal, which is to say that the molecules within the glass will line up in some sort of regular / periodic / repetitive lattice. If, when you're pouring the molten glass, you let it cool down slowly, you get crystal.
sorry for the boo-boo.
Jamie,
Try dusting your cases with the car dust brushes. The ones they sell at the car shows. The one I have is called the California Car Duster. It works great.
http://www.calcarduster.com/productsAuto.asp
Len
What "the" doe's this have to do with fine woodworking? Hello people... get a grip on RL! Most people who wish real covers encase them in glass and daily regulate any changes in temperature and humidity. FG have you ever made any case's that are climate controlled? Let's get back to work learning how to machine and finish wood here.- JK -
JK,
I actually think this is a most relevant topic and have enjoyed reading here. I have not seen you post before, so I guess that you are a newcomer. I would suggest you lurk for a while to get a sense for the chemistry here. We try to share is ideas for sometimes many off topic projects. Welcome aboard, and hold on for your life!
TDF
Edited 6/17/2003 8:56:39 PM ET by Tom Ferreira
Sheesh, what's your problem? This has has direct bearing on my particular woodworking project at the moment, and we discuss everything from glazing to metalworking around here when we feel like it. I hope your other 4 posts were more worthwhile and helpful to the members of Knots than this one was.
I'll make the same suggestion to you that I did to the last troller that popped up -- if you don't like my posts, put me on Ignore. Doesn't bother me a bit.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Brogansrun,
Did you even read what you wrote? Your first thought was that we should stick with cutting wood then you switch to writing about climate control. Heck maybe you could teach some of us how to build a climate controlled display case.
Many people have diverse back grounds. I for one have a degree in industrial climate control and I am un degreed engineer in the field of plastics with 4 patents.
Joe Phillips
Plastics pay the bills, Woodworking keeps me sane!
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