Replies

1. 
   Napie | Mar 13, 2007 03:07am | #1

   First, Beretta would not stock one of their fine shotguns in mahogany, it’s walnut.  Depending on which model it is, the finish is some type of varnish or an oil finish on the more expensive guns.  Be careful of the sanding, the fit to the action will be ruined.  Also watch out for the checkering and don’t dull it off.  Look up gunstock finishing on Google, there is lots of information on the subject.  

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Mar 13, 2007 05:40am | #2

   I think deep scratches and gouges, particularly since they apparently are incident to hunting, not vandalism, are part of the gun's history and I would be quite reluctant to try to eliminate them, especially at the cost of distorting the shape of the stock. 

   The wood almost certainly is walnut as was said.  The finish is likely to be a polymerized oil, which can form a reasonably hard film, unlike non-polymerized oils which must have all excess removed. 

    

1. 
   Joe Sullivan | Mar 13, 2007 06:05am | #3

   I have a Beretta and am fairly familiar with the last ten years of so of the line. Anything but walnut would be most unusual. Beretta guns are mechanically idential box locks until you get up into the very expensive range of true sidelock. What changes is the finish on the reciever and the figure and color in the wood. That can make a difference of a thousand dollars or more retail. BTW, no Beretta is a cheap shotgun. Prices keep going up. While they are nowhere near Purdys or other handmade "London Best" guns (which run upwards of $20,000), full retail on the most basic Beretta is going to be over $1,000, (probably $1,500 or so, I haven't looked recently)and they run up to a multiple of that.Oiled stocks are only provided on the high end, or on some occasional offerings. THis is a shame, because most scratches can be rubbed out of an oilsed stock, but not a gloss-finish stock. I am not sure what kind of varnish is used on the non-oil stocks, but it looks like poly to me. Many Beretta owners would greatly prefer an oiled stock, btw, so this should be an option ou offer your client.For a shotgun, "fit" is everything. A good wingshot does not aim. He or she focus intently on the target and unconsciously relys on the fit of the gun to the body to have the hole in the barrel pointing where they are looking. In a way, it is a pre-tech version of an Apache helecopter gunner's helmet that aims the guns at what he looks at. Even a bad shot has a much harder time with a poorly fitting gun. Fit involves a number of factors, such as slight bending and offsets (called cast) that are hard to see unless you know what to look for.I mention fit in order to discourace you from any significant material removal on the stock. Checkering is also important. It allows the shooter to hold the gun firmly even with sweaty or wet or cold hands. Beretta checkering is not as sharply pointed as it might be to begin with, and you need to take care not to flatten it further.the fit of wood to metal is imprtant for many aesthetic and mechanical reasons. It is called "inletting." ANything that messes up the inletting messes up the gun.

1. 
   simpsj91 | Mar 14, 2007 12:51am | #9

   Many thanks for the information that everyone has given me.  The wood is of course walnut!  What was I thinking! 

   I have decided best action is to go ahead gently with the sanding.  The deepest marks are on the very bottom edge and should sand out without changing the shape too much.  I should be able to sand up to but not touch the checkering.  I will not do anything where the surfaces of the metal parts mate with the wood. 

   The owner paid in the region of £2000 and has only had the gun for 3 years.  He isn't a patina kind of person!  I will however offer him the choice of oiling the wood.

   Again thank you very much for taking the time...

   John

   Edited 3/13/2007 5:52 pm by simpsj91

1. 
   Joe Sullivan | Mar 14, 2007 01:15am | #10

   John:

   You will be ok with the sanding so long as you don't change the length (a quarter inch really matters to fit), or materially change the width or drop of the stock.

   Is this gun an over-and-under or a side-by-side? 

   I reaclled last night whilst taking my shower that Beretta also offers some nice auto-loaders at substantially lower prices.  Not sure they are legal where you live.  they are not "automatic" as in machine guns -- you still have to pull the trigger each time, but they can hold up to five rounds. 

   Joe

1. 
   simpsj91 | Mar 14, 2007 01:24am | #12

   Hello Joe,

   I will not touch either end of the stock because that is covered by other non wood parts and therefore is not damaged.  The length will not be altered.

   I believe it is an auto loader but I really am no expert on fire arms.  It has a single barrel but I'm now at the limit of my knowledge!

   What do you mean by the "drop" of the stock?

   Thanks,

   John

2. 
   ajoe | Mar 14, 2007 01:34am | #13

   With all due respect, IMHO you are very dangerous ground. You are messing with a very expensive firearm and don't know what you are doing. I suggest you get out while your reputation is still in tact. Remember the job isn't just for the owner but for everyone who sees the gun.

   Edited 3/13/2007 6:35 pm ET by ajoe

3. 
   Joe Sullivan | Mar 14, 2007 02:55am | #14

   Unless the have put out something Ihave not seen, if it has a single barrel, it is an auto loader.  What that means is that there is a tubular magazine under the forend (the grip up on the barrel itself).  That magazine holds the shotgun shells.  WHen a shell is fired, the pressure from the firing causes a mechanism to cycle that kicks out the spent shell casing and loads a fresh unfired one.  Each tie you press the trigger, this sequence occurs.

   Simply put, drop is a measurement of where lower parts of the stock are relative to a straight line from the barrel.  Each person has a different body shape.  Some have short necks and arms and others have a lot of space and angle in there.  Custom stocks are fitted to the user so that when the gun is mounted correctly and consistemtly to the shoulder, the barrel is pointing straight where the eye is lookng.  AS the stock must fit into a pocket in the shoulder muscles, the stock must drop from the barrel angle dorn to shoulder level.  Again simplifying, a person with a short neck will need less drop than one with a long neck. Commercial stocks are built to some standard model of a person that the manufacturer has developed, but they more or less do the same thing.  

   Also important, though, is where the stock meets the face, because the face is the reference point for the shooter in a good mount.  And the stock will probably have cast or a slight bend, in order to align the barrel with the pupil of the shooter's eye.

   Stocking a gun is really pretty complex.  From your standpont, the lesson is that you do not want to make more than the tiniest change in stock dimensions.

4. 
   simpsj91 | Mar 14, 2007 11:37pm | #19

   Joe,

   Thank you for this.  I understand.  It's the jargon that gun people use! 

   I have the owners consent to go ahead with this project and I will consult him at every stage, for my own protection as well.

   I've just ordered True Oil.  Here's hoping...

   John

5. 
   pinsortails | Mar 14, 2007 08:46pm | #17

   I must strongly agree with ajoe's recommendation that you strategically back away from this project, allowing the concerned owner to pass it on to a stock finishing expert.  If you are uncertain of the type of action, then you are on thin ice to begin with and whatever you do to the surface may well ruin the asthetics of the gun.  The stock doesn't just connect the buttplate to the receiver.  Please take no offense.

   John in Texas

6. 
   simpsj91 | Mar 14, 2007 11:31pm | #18

   Hello John in Texas,

   No offence taken at all!  I thank you for telling me your worries.

   I have shown the owner all the posts on this subject and he has asked me to go ahead.  My get out clause! 

   I don't know anything about firearms per se but I've been working in wood for about 30 years, I've just never worked with a gun before.   Any wood removed will be minimal, 1mm max, and I'm not going to alter the faces of wood to metal junctions at all.  I fancy the challenge to be honest and the owner is willing to attend at any strategic moments.

   Again thank you everyone for all your help on this one!

    

   John

   Edited 3/14/2007 4:45 pm by simpsj91

7. 
   philip | Mar 15, 2007 02:31am | #21

   John,
   "I have shown the owner all the posts on this subject and he has asked me to go ahead. " (!)
   What did he say to my suggestion that you size HIM up first? Have you established if he is a true worshipper or not ?Philip Marcou

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Mar 13, 2007 08:01pm | #6

   Hi Steve,

   In a previous post you stated, "The finish is likely to be a polymerized oil, which can form a reasonably hard film, unlike non-polymerized oils which must have all excess removed."

   Are you implying that the existing finish could be prepped, i.e. lightly sanded and apply new finish?  The reason I'm asking is that I'm also in the process of refinishing a shotgun stock, albeit not of  the Baretta caliber. 

   The existing finish is Tru Oil as in a previous post in this thread.  I was told by the owner of the gun store that it will take somewhere in the vicinity of 13 - 15 coats!

   I sanded off all the old finish and I was wondering if I shouldn't have removed all of it.  This is my first attempt at refinishing a gun stock.  I have the guidance of someone with experience, thank God!

   Thanks for your help,

    Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Mar 13, 2007 10:40pm | #7

   Tru-Oil is one variety of polymerized oil.  And, while it does build a film, it is best applied in very thin coats, so 15 coats seems reasonable to me. 

   Even though there is a good chance that the old finish on the Beretta is polymerized oil similar to the TruOil, if I had it to do, I would probably also want to start from bare wood.  You can't sand out all the gouges, that could distort the shapes, but you can freshen up the appearance. 

   Don't count too much on experience.  I haven't actually ever refinished a gun stock, just paid attention to some guns around me and how they were maintained. 

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Mar 13, 2007 10:55pm | #8

   Thanks Steve,

   This is the first for me too.  There was something on FWW about using a steam iron to raise dents in wood, but I agree with you about the "character/patina" idea of leaving them alone.

   Thanks again,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   Joe Sullivan | Mar 14, 2007 01:24am | #11

   Bob:

   If you look on the gun sites (no pun intended) there is information on shotgun stocks and the finishes thereof.  Or, you could email me and I could put you in email contact with a guy or two who really know what they are doing.

   One thing to be careful about is the built-up gloss of the finish.  There is a trend toward hard gloss.  However, most serious gunners with decent wood prefer a duller oil that can be touched up with a bottle oil in the gun case.  This is because under American hunting conditions, we do not have beaters pushing driven birds towards us so that we can shoot them.  Instead we push through sharp, slappy brush in coverts, and climb over fences as we hunt.  This can be hard on a stock.  the glossy ones just have to look beat-up until they can be completely redone, while a good matte oil finish is no problem at all.

   J

2. 
   Kevin | Mar 14, 2007 08:02pm | #15

   My boss is an avid Elk hunter and used to co-own a small business making custom hunting rifles. He swears by high-build conversion varnish.

3. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Mar 15, 2007 04:13pm | #22

   Thanks Joe,

   I very much appreciate your generous offer. I have access to a gun refinisher in the local gun store so I feel comfortable with that.  He has offered to review my progress as I proceed.  The gun in questions is by no means a collector item and the owner is comfortable with my doing it.

   The guy in the gun store is also looking for additioonal resources that he might call upon in the future.

   Again, thanks and I will take advantage of your offer should we run into any obsticales doen the road.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

3. 
   philip | Mar 13, 2007 09:13am | #4

   John, "How should I refinish the stock?"
   First, you look at the owner and how he has treated this gun. The reasons for this have already been explained by other posters. Tailor the job to suit-why do a flash job if it is not appreciated?

   Philip Marcou
1. 
   arkriver | Mar 13, 2007 05:28pm | #5

   Birchwood Casey Tru Oil is a common gun stock finish. It is available at Wally world in the sporting goods section. It is easy to apply with a rag and yields a nice glossy "varnish like" finish. It should take the elements - snow or rain - better than most of the oils I am familiar with. It may or amy not be what you are looking for

4. 
   furndr | Mar 14, 2007 08:39pm | #16

   I'm not an expert but I have refinished a lot of guns, including rust bluing of doubles.

   I would first remove the stock from the receiver.  Then using a stripper like Kutzit I would remove all the old finish. After you're satisfied that all the old finish has been removed cover the checkering with masking tape. Use a very sharp X-Acto knife to trim the tape to the checkering, being very careful. After you have the tape in place you can sand the entire stock lightly - probably 180 grit paper.

   I'd first try to raise the wood in the gouged area wth steam. A damp cloth under your wife's iron works great. If the wood is actually gouged out, rather than dented, this probably won't work, but I'd try it. If you have a pretty deep gouge I'd try to find an experienced  antique restorer who is familiar with filling imperfections with shellac sticks. They come in all wood tones amd are very durable.   He can melt the shellac  into the gouge and then sand it with fine paper and alcohol and you won't be able to see it!

   After you have it repaired and sanded again with 220 grit paper you're ready to apply the finish. As has been mentioned, conversion varnish is a great and durable finish, but it's not for the inexperienced. It has time and thickness windows that are very critical and if you mess it up it's hard to get off. Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil is great, and forgiving. Before applying it, wet the stock to raise the grain. After it dries a few minutes cut the whiskers off with 0000 steel wool. Don't sand the whishers off - it pushes the dust into the grain and keeps you from getting a good finish. After using the steel wool blow off the dust with compressed air (or brush off with a clean paint brush).  

   Now you're ready to apply the Tru-Oil.  As has been mentioned, apply very sparingly and the next day sand lightly with 320 or 400 paper. repeat this until you get the finish you want. You'll be amazed how it looks after 8-10 coats.  The primary reason you put on so many coats and then sand is that you are filling the pores of the wood. After you get the pores filled it will only take 4-5 coats to have a finish that will rival anything you have ever seen. It's it's too glossy you can rub it out a little with 000 or 0000 steel wool. After you get the finish where you want it take the masking tape off the checkering and brush a coat or two of Tru-Oil into the checkering with an old tooth brush, removing as much as you can.

   You can do it!!

    

    

      

1. 
   simpsj91 | Mar 14, 2007 11:41pm | #20

   Hello furndr

   Many thanks for this.

   I've printed it and will refer as I go along.  A great help.  I will try to take photos as I go, but I'm no photographer!

   Again thank you.

   John