Replies

1. 
   adastra | Mar 17, 2005 07:33pm | #1

   Well, I can't imagine the current political climate to be too friendly about forcing manufacturers to do anything. I'm not trying to start a red state vs. blue state thread.

   But its always been a mystery why this isn't a part of table saw design other than mfg. would have to retool castings. Not a small expense. And American woodworkers have rarely even seen a riving knife so they equate it with that crap splitter/guard that gets pulled off of just about every saw sold. I'm a self-professes "safety cub" but even I hate that design.

   That being said I use a shopmade splitter whenever possible, which is about 95% of the time.

   Which is the beauty of the riving knife, it does its job and stays out of the way unless you put in a smaller diameter blade like a dado or something. Makes so much sense it seems stupid not to have it.

   I worked with a guy that didn't like splitters and guards and never used them. In an unrelated conversion he told me about an accident he had from a kickback. Seems he got speared by a narrow ripper that got caught by the blade. Ripped his hip open and he needed several stitches.

   But he didn't have any use for splitters.

   I think the problem for a lot of solo workers and hobbyists is that they haven't been around woodworking enough to understand the dangers. I have friends missing parts of fingers and seen my share of blood, some my own. Even when you are taking precautions it is still dangerous.

   Another guy I know got a four inch splinter through his palm and into his wrist and this was while using a power feeder. That was just dumb luck but my point is its dangerous enough even when you're doing things right. So people continue bad habits because its never gotten them, and they'll tell a story about Grandpa that did it that way and never got hurt. Well, Gramps should have bought a lottery ticket because he was very lucky.

   Early in my career I had a close call with a kickback that threw my hand into the guard so hard it opened the skin. I had no time to react and -after I changed my underwear ;) - the lesson was learned. Had the guard not been there I would have been missing part of my hand, there was no way I could have done anything. It was over before I realized what had happened.

   Kind of got off topic a bit but point is I think there are so many injuries that could be prevented my something so simple that its hard to believe prople aren't aware of it. Its like buying a car and then having to go aftermarket to get safety belts that work.

1. 
   DonC | Mar 17, 2005 11:36pm | #2

   I certainly agree about the merits of a rifing knife. I own 2 INCA 2100 table saws. Best I've ever seen. They are no longer retailed. I don't have a clue why. They are truely incredible. As standard equipment it has:

   The best fence I've ever seen. You can slide the fence to the end of the table surface or to the middle of the blade. The rails are mounted on dovetails. You can slide all 50 inches right or left and maintain accuracy. Measuring scale is calibrated both directions.

   It has a gauge to tell you height of blade above surface of table.

   Tilting saw blade scale is so accurate, a sliding T bevel is not required for ripping polygons.

   Rifing knife that never gets in the way and provides safety.

   A dust collection system that works so well, cabinet clean-out is only required one a year with heavy use.

   Safety guards that actually work and compliment the operator.

   Power Take Off for mortising table.

   The absolete best tenon jig ever sold. It was very expensive and worth every penny.

   Cast estension tables that accomodate routers mounted under and table saw fence can be used.

   Anodized Aluminum surface that never warps.

   Don

    

    

1. 
   adastra | Mar 18, 2005 12:38am | #3

   I agree about Inca. I just sold my 259. Couln't hold on to it, didn't have the room and couldn't build it into my current saw table due to the tilting table. But it was tough to get rid of even though I wasn't using it. The machining was unbelievable and it had the same dovetail sliding rails. Just made incredibly well.Does yours have the same arbor plate with the ball and socket arrangement to apply even pressure to the blade? That was pretty incredible as well. Just so many details that made it so much more elegant than cabinet saws. But just don't do enough small work to have a 259. Great for a boxmaker or luthier.Forgot about Euro dust shrouding around the blade. Yet another thing that totally makes sense but isn't done. Except I think maybe some smaller saws and Dewalt's hybrid.You're very lucky to have two 2100's. What kind of shop do you run? High end tools are such a pleasure to use. Kind of like driving a really well tuned sports coupe. A beater will get you there too but it ain't the same.I'll just have to slug it out with the little Grizz for now. Doubt I'll ever find a big Inca but hoping for an old PM 66. I've used those in shops before and they are nice equipment.

1. 
   DonC | Mar 18, 2005 04:08pm | #7

   I'm not familiar with the PM66 you referred to. Tell me a little about it.

   I only have 2 saws because I bought one for myself first and then later bought one for the school where I work. I'm a shop teacher. I retire next year and the shop will be discontinued upon my retirement. Dern shame! Anyway, I received this saw as a gift from the school board for 34 years of service.

   By the way, I just remembered another nice design feature of the INCA 2100. The blade raises and lowers in a straight verticla plane. It doesn't swing thru an arc like the trunions of most table saws. This can be an advantage for some set-ups.

   My shop is very large and is in the basement. I make Queen Anne stuff for the wife and I. The house is now full of furniture and I am taking carving classes. I have $1000.00 invested in chisels now and really enjoy this (new to me) woodworking discipline.

1. 
   adastra | Mar 18, 2005 05:36pm | #8

   PM 66 is just shorthand for Powertmatic 66.Sounds like you have a good setup to enjoy your retirement. Sometimes feel that is the best way to do woodworking: with no pressure for it to be a business.Sorry to hear about the school shop closing. The skills aren't exactly demanded by the workplace any longer, but of course I feel like it does add to the quality of life. Like music, its not necessary for survival but it helps makes life worth living.Another issue I see is that the general population have no idea what exactly is involved in building furniture. Its equated with rough framing carpentry. School shops had the benefit of showing people how to do something, and if they remember what was involved with proper woodworking it would help them identify crap down the road.I guess you would know better than most that it doesn't take too long to have a basic understanding of the trade. But it takes a long time to be good at it.I always equate it to music. Someone can show you how to make the chords and tune a guitar, but that doesn't make you a musician. And even within the trade there are specialties as in music. Same instruments, different disciplines. But I think just learning a trade (or instrument) gives you a better understanding of things even if you never make a dime with the knowledge.The knowledge that is being lost to the general population makes it that much harder for a craftsman to survive. When people think Pottery Barn is "nice stuff" it ain't a good sign.Anyway kind of went off on a tangent but if you ever want to downsise to one saw send me an e-mail.

2. 
   DonC | Mar 18, 2005 07:57pm | #9

   Well said and good analogy to Music.

   A pleasure to talk with you.

   Don

2. 
   WillGeorge | Mar 18, 2005 03:37am | #4

   Bad guy here..

   I love my 'SPLITTER' but took them anti-kickback spikes things off.

1. 
   MatthewSchenker | Mar 18, 2005 03:04pm | #5

   Will,
   I know most table saws come with splitters, but the government group I referenced is considering some kind of regulation about riving knives, a whole different animal.

3. 
   MarkRD | Mar 18, 2005 03:54pm | #6

   I was going nuts trying to figure out what a Riving Knife was, so I did a search.

   Here is a reasonable picture: http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/pagebin/guidothr0007.htm

   Another site where someone modified their Hammer knives (Sliding Table saw)
   http://benchmark.20m.com/tools/HammerB3/B3RivingKnife/hammerb3_rivingknife.html

   The guts of the SawStop Cabinet Saw (nice looking machine btw):
   http://www.sawstop.com/cabinet%20saw%20photo%20gallery.htm

   I'm still using a 50+ year old craftsman TS - no guards (they were long gone before I got the saw).

   I'm in the market for a safe TS. So far I like the SawStop machine.

   Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.