Hi,
I have a drill press that its chuck was knocked out of alignment. I need to remove the chuck so I can re-align it. My drill press is a cheap one, doesn’t have slot in the quilt to remove the chuck. So it needs to be done from the outside. Does anyone know where I can get a good pair of wedges to remove the chuck ? Thx
Quang
Replies
Quang,
MSC, a machine shop supply outfit, should have what you need. Their prices are good and they ship right away. Their website is: mscdirect.com A pair of wedges cost around $7.00.
Your chuck is probably mounted on a Jacobs taper on the end of the quill but some of the imports can be threaded on. With luck, the side of the chuck will say 2JT on it to indicate that the chuck is taper mounted and that will also tell you what size wedge you need. If the chuck has 3/8-24 or 1/2-20 stamped on it then the chuck is threaded on.
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Hi John,
I visited mscdirect and found the wedge.
I have one more question. How do I use this wedge ?
Thx
Quang
Quang,I assumed that you knew that your drill chuck was mounted onto a Jacobs taper and that you therefore knew you needed a set of wedges to get it loose. If you don't know that for sure, you need to confirm how the chuck is attached either from what the chuck has stamped on it, as I explained, or as described by the other poster who also answered your question. I would suggest that you do not use his two screwdrivers technique to pry off the chuck, wedges are gentler on the parts. You also do not need to heat the chuck as someone else described.If the chuck is mounted onto the end of a Jacobs taper, you will see that there is a gap between the top of the chuck and a shoulder milled on the end of the arbor that the chuck is attached to. Take two of the wedges, oil or grease them lightly, and slide them, narrow end first, into the gap from opposite directions until they fill the gap and won't go any further. They should stick out more or less evenly on the opposite sides of the chuck.Now take a pair of hammers and place one of them, the heavier one if they are not the same size, against the outboard end of one of the wedges and hold it there while you tap fairly gently on the opposing wedge with the other hammer. If the chuck doesn't come off after a few blows reverse the hammers and tap on the opposite wedge a few times. Usually the chuck will pop off easily. Rarely a chuck can be seized and not cooperate which can be a headache but with luck that won't happen.Before you start put a plastic bucket with a rag or two in it for padding on the table directly under the chuck. This to catch the chuck when it pops loose, it will usually fly off with quite a bit of speed.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Hi John,
It was Jacobs taper chuck. The chuck has marking 1-16mm JT33. So I think the correct wedge is this one:
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1785469&PMT4NO=0
I wasn't sure that I need to use a vise to clamp the 2 wedges onto the spindle and the chuck.. I'll try your method using two hammer..
Thx
Quang
Your chuck has a Jacobs 33 taper. My old drill press has a JT33 chuck also. A few years ago I needed to replace it and I could not find JT33 wedges, I think I used JT3 wedges. John will probably provide info on what wedges to use. They worked but more wedge taper would have been better.
EDIT: I checked my wedge set and it is marked 6. The McMASTER-CARR catalog does state that they are for 6 and 33 Jacobs taper chucks, P/N 29225A37.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.
Edited 11/5/2009 8:24 am ET by JerryPacMan
As is common for numbering systems developed by manufacturers a century ago, the Jacobs numbering system makes no sense. Jacobs tapers numbers 1 through 5 are in a logical order, #2 is bigger than a #1, and a #3 is bigger than a #2 and so on up through #5. Then the system falls apart, #33 and #6 are both larger than a #2 and smaller than a #3. Since no one actually makes a wedge set for a #33 anymore, you need to get a set of wedges for a the next nearest size which would be for a #6 Jacobs taper. So what you need from MSC is a size 6 wedge set, their part number 08592966.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Hi John,
Thank you for your help. That was valuable information, very hard to find. I just switched my order to #6.
Quang
Not all drill presses use a drift to remove the chuck. I have two DP's, the delta does use one drift. The other is a very old Craftsmen that uses a threaded ring to remove the chuck. The ring is knurled and is on the quill above the chuck.You turn the ring, I don't recall for sure if it is right or left threaded.The chuck is forced off the taper. You reinstall by turning the ring up til it snugs up, then install the chuck. I found that using the quill to force the chuck on the taper works only to partially seat the chuck. Then with the jaws fully open I tap with a wooden mallet.One heavy blow will do it.Use a block of wood and a hammer if you do not have a mallet.
Have you asked the manufacturer how your model DP chuck comes off?
mike
Hi Mike,
According to the manual, the chuck was installed using a mallet.
Quang
Most of the time you need a mallet or a block of wood and a heavy hammer. Just make sure the jaws are open all the way.If the jaws are closed or partly closed they protrude past the face of the chuck.The jaws would be damaged if the chuck was hit with the jaws not fully open.
Does your manual show you how to remove the chuck? Most use a drift ( triangular steel wedge).Although like I mentioned one of my dp's uses a threaded ring.
mike
Quang,
If its a taper, I have had good luck heating the chuck to make it expand and then it slides off easier. Also when reinstalling, heat the chuck but not the taper. When it is put back on the hot chuck will cool and grab tighter around the taper.
Stevo
Hi Quang...
I've used and abused many drill presses. I've never knocked a chuck out of allignment. I HAVE screwed up a chuck or two by putting short drill bits into the chuck and therefore chewing up the gripping surface of the three jaws. Before you blame the drill chuck, take a bit that wobbles and place it on the top of your tablesaw and roll it back and forth a few times. Check to see if the drill bit is warped (bent) or not. You don't want to go through a whole lot of work just to find out that the 2 or 3 bits you normally use are bentd and you're blaming the chuck. If they are OK, then on to step 2......
let's start at the beginning. Do you have a manual for the drill press?? If so, look at the parts diagram. Does it show a screw going INTO the chuck?? Sees it show a tapered spindle, either Morse # 1 or 2 (long thin taper) or a Jacobs #33 taper (shoret stubby) on the end of the quill, the part that moves up and down? If you don't have a manual, try finding it on the net. If it is an older unit, try http://www.OWWM.com. They have lots of manuals.
If it has a taper, a couple of medium thickness screwdrivers GENTLY tapped between the chuck and quill should get the chuck off. Place the screwdrivers so they pass to the left and right of the center of the quill, NOT into the taper!!
Use a mirror and flashlight to look all the way into the chuck. If you see some sort of screw head, it (the screw)_ must be removed before doing anything else. WARNING*** Some of these screws are LEFT HANDED THREADS, so try both directionsd to get the screw out.
If the chuck is screwed onto the quill, I use the following method... Have an assistant hold the drive belt to act as a brake so nothing turns. Place the tail end of the chuck key into one of the three holed. With a plastic MALLET, give the 'other' end of the key a sharp rap. This should get the threaded chuck loose. Again, watch out for left handed thrteading, so tap it both ways.
Hope this helps SawdustSteve Long Island, NY (E of NYC)
Hi Steve,
I didn't believe what happened to the chuck. Somehow the circle cutter came loose, and it banged on the hold down, and knocking the chuck off-line. I tried to seat it back with a rubber mallet, with no luck.
I had the manual, but it didn't cover the chuck removal procedure. By then I realize my drill press wasn't as good as I thought it was: didn't have a slotted quilt for chuck removal. Sometime buying the best tool is the only way to go ...
Quang
Edited 11/4/2009 7:34 pm ET by Quang
Edited 11/6/2009 8:03 pm ET by Quang
Quang,Are you sure that the chuck is bent? In the scenario you described it is more likely that the shank of the fly cutter bent. Actually this is the hopefully the case. If you bent the chuck, or even worse the drill press's spindle, you will have a more complicated and expensive repair.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Hi John,
The chuck is probably not bent , but I'm suspecting it doesn't sit square to the spindle. One would think there is only one way for the chuck to go onto the spindle thus it must be straight. I used a rubber mallet to correct it, it was better, but still a little off. So this is when I'm going to remove the chuck to reseat it.
I replace the circle cutter with 1/2" drill bit which was straight. The circle cutter was wobbling anyway. I'm still looking for a quality circle cutter. Let me know if you'd like to recommend one.
I'm getting a Starrett dial indicator to check spindle/arbor runout.
Quang
Unless there is dirt inside of a taper socket, which isn't likely in this case, tapers cannot seat out of square. Anything is possible, but I suspect that you will probably find that something is bent.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
If nobody has already said so.....
Scrap that old junkie chuck (I am assuming it is) and get a keyless chuck from MSC. My drill press had a perfectly functioning chuck but you just can't beat the new keyless chucks. They are not too expense either.
I got mine at MSC and I think I paid near $75 or $100. Worth every penny to not have to deal with that stupid key.
Rob Kress
Hi John,
I received the wedge #6. However there was gap betweent the chuck and housing above it. So I filled the gap with a bracket from home depot, it wasn't enough.. I finally get it off..
Putting on the Starrett dial, it reads 0 to 5 mils as I turn the spindle by hand.
Is 5 mils within acceptable run-out ?
Thx
Quang
Should be okay for woodworking, if I am correct 5 mm is .008.Are you sure the indicator is in mm. I ask because some indicators are in mm but most I have seen are in 1000ths.
Not an expert here, maybe a machinist will chime in. If you need another opinion, try asking at a machining forum.
mike
Mike,
I could be wrong but 5 mils is 5/1000 of an inch, as one mil is 1/1000 of an inch.
Quang
Is there any play in the spindle ? If you push and pull very firmly toward and away from the indicator does the dial change?On a taper with no bearing play I would say run out on the order of .0001" ( one ten thousandth of an inch ) is where it would be off the lathe when manufactured. Then add another ten thou or so for bearing weirdness.Are you measuring down by the narrow end of the taper or higher up. Big difference.Did you say you finally got the chuck off ? It is a bit unclear to my pea brain.An easy way to get the chuck off if no cool nut to turn to force it off is put a half inch bolt through the table with the threaded end up and tighten the chuck on it and use the drill press handles to pull the taper out of the chuck.I never had to do that but read it some where. I think it was in the questions and answers section of an old issue of FWW.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 11/22/2009 2:19 pm by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->
Edited 11/22/2009 2:23 pm by roc
What I did was Remove the belt, put the dial base on the drill press table, locked it with the magnet button, and installed the dial indicator to the base rod. Then zero out the dial indicator. and rotate the spindle by hand
I think it's oscillating between 0 and 4 mils.
My drill press was a radial arm drill press, so I don't push at different spots on the drill to see if it affects the dial. The dial change if I shake the drill any where.
The specs says it 0.001 " graduation for the dial.
Quang
Edited 11/22/2009 10:54 pm ET by Quang
Edited 11/22/2009 11:09 pm ET by Quang
Circle cutters I have used on the drill press are awful
I would try one of these but have no experience with it.
http://www.amazon.com/RotoZip-RZ05-2400-ZipMate-Masonry-Adapter/dp/B001AZRN7C/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1258918285&sr=1-7
with one of these ( or better yet home made )
http://www.amazon.com/RotoZip-CRCT2-Circle-Cutter-Attachment/dp/B00006AGPN/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1258918166&sr=1-15
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 11/22/2009 2:33 pm by roc
>Is 5 mils TOO MUCH run-out ?<
For me it would be too much but I am a candy. I am often amused at what people are able to produce using junk tools ( eventually and if they squint and hold their tung just right ).
: )
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
I just measured the thickness of a few American dollar bills with a high quality digital micrometer. The purpose of this is you could slip a dollar bill between your dial tip and the tapper and use the result to determine weather your gauge is using inches or millimeters.
inch = .00385 to .00405
rounded that is .004 inch
millimeters = .098 to .107
rounded that is .100 millimeter
Even better you could go get a set of decent feeler gauges from an auto parts place for a few bucks and put a two thou inch (.002 ) blade from the stack between the dial tip and the taper and see what you get on the dial.
If metric you would see a change of .051 millimeters on your gauge.
If inch obviously it would be .002 inch
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 11/22/2009 3:15 pm by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->
Edited 11/22/2009 3:17 pm by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->
Edited 11/22/2009 3:18 pm by roc
Very clever !
I'll try the dollar bill.
Thx for spending the time.
Quang
Hey Quang,You are welcome. I like messing about with the measuring stuff.I always wanted a radial arm drill press that is pretty cool !To you and any others who have posted back to me :I am not getting mail from FWW but am getting mail fine from other sources. Not sure what is going on. Sorry if you didn't get a response if you expected one. I just happened to look in here and saw Quang had made two posts to me. No indication of these in my mail. I went to the " Cloud/Mobile Me " and expanded my mail space, days ago, so not a prob on that end any longer.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 11/23/2009 7:00 pm by roc
The term "mils" seems to be throwing a few here; it's a term used mostly by car guys to refer to mili-inches, thousandths of an inch. We machinists say "thous", but the terms are interchangeable. Mils, as used by most Americans, doesn't refer to anything metric.
You say you measured your runout on the Jacobs taper portion of the arbor. My question is, is the arbor integral to the quill of your drill press? If not, you're only getting part of the story. Usually, drill press arbors are double-tapered adapters; you usually have a Morse taper #2 or 3 end that seats into a tapered socket in the quill, with a Jacobs tapered end for the chuck to seat onto. If this is the case for you, you need to get the arbor out of the quill and measure the runout of the spindle by indicating inside the female socket in the quill. This is to eliminate the potential for error stackup. Once you've established how true the spindle is running, then you can start to look at the other elements in the system. Basically, you've got four mating surfaces and the mechanical error introduced by the chuck to look at as potential error sources causing runout. Wear, dirt, and rust can contribute to error in all of them.
Ultimately, your best runout measurement is taken on the shank of a drill or a piece of ground round stock in the chuck. That's, after all, where the action is. First step is to determine how that arbor is fixed to the quill (integral or taper-locked). Get back to me with that, and I'll be better able to help you determine where your runout is happening and what needs to be done.
And oh, yeah, five thou TIR (total indicator reading) is a little excessive. As was mentioned, probably okay for woodworking, but worth looking closer at.
Oh, and I'm beggin' ya, please don't heat a drill chuck.
Sorry for the long post, hope it helps.
I for one like long posts.
I learned some thing.
Thanks.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Very good suggestions !
I'll need to disassemble the quilt,arbor,... and see what's going on like you said.
My indicator is only good for .001 inch graduation. I'm wondering I should get indicator with 0.0001" graduation. It is rather expensive.
Quang
Edited 11/27/2009 12:26 am ET by Quang
I wouldn't buy a .0001 reading indicator for what you need. The thing about .0001 readers ("tenths" in machinist-speak) is that their movements are that much more delicate than their lower resolution counterparts. I sweat every time I take mine out of its case.
If you wanted to get a more sensitive indicator, I'd recommend one with a resolution of .0005". A quality made one will be rugged enough that you don't have to handle it like high explosives every time you touch it, and will be accurate enough for your needs. In fact, you can infer a reading of half the resolution (this is true for any indicator in good condition), so if you take your readings carefully,and obtain repeatable results, you can be reasonably assured of accuracy into the range of 2 tenths.
I also don't recommend "saving" money on an indicator. A good one, well cared for, will last your grandkids a lifetime. I have a very old Starrett back-plunger type that still reads as accurate as ever. That said, by many accounts Starrett's quality has slipped in recent years. All my Starrett tools are pretty old, so I wouldn't know, just repeating what I've heard. When it comes to indicators for every day use, I swear by the name Interapid. Expensive but worth every penny.
Looking forward to hearing how your repairs work out!
Regards,John
Thanks for your inputs. I almost went out and bought a .0001" indicator. ..
Getting 0.0005" indicator is more economical.
In restropect, the runout might have been all the time, I just didn't notice it until recently. Interapid ! I'll look into it.
Have you used any Mitutuyo indicator ? They seem price reasonably.
I have a digital caliper from them, it's pretty good...
Quang
Edited 11/27/2009 7:05 pm ET by Quang
Quang,Mitutoyo makes quality measuring instruments. I never have used one of their indicators, but I have several micrometers from them. Very well made; fits, finishes and accuracy are superb. I think you'll probably be very happy with what you get.
Quang,Sorry I have been slow to get back to you on this but I have been busy installing a new roof and a chimney on my very tall houseAs to your drill press: If your drill press has a Jacobs taper that was machined as part of the spindle, which seems to be the case from your earlier postings, then a .005" measurement of movement at the side of the taper suggests that you have bent the spindle, probably right at the top of the Jacobs taper. Take a runout measurement at the top of the taper and another at the lowest edge of it. If the runout is worse at the bottom than the top that would be a further indication of a bent spindle.If the spindle is bent, and the original accident easily could have bent the spindle on a light drill press, then any drill chuck you install will have a wobble and the tip of the bits will move in a circle that will get bigger the longer the bit. It is possible that the old chuck is also bent from the accident, but your fundamental problem appears to be a bent spindle.There is no simple way to straighten out a bent spindle, it is almost impossible to bend it back into line. An experienced machinist could attempt to straighten out the part if it was removed from the press but the cost of the work would almost certainly be greater than the cost of buying a new drill press. If you can get a replacement spindle from the manufacturer that is probably the least expensive repair.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
Thanks John. Very enlightening indeed with your feedback. Measuring the top and bottom side of the arbor to detect bent makes lot of sense....
Quang
Answer Was Precise And Detailed With The Two Original Replies
Model 813B Central Machinery Harbor Freight 8" Drill Press Thankyou for posting this answer though it was a long time ago. It precisely and completely answered my own question about an older drill press chuck that needed removal. I could not find the answer in several hours of watching You Tube presentations and incomplete answers on forums. It also pointed me further down to the correct size wedges need for a chuck marked JT33.
Thank You, WhyDoThingsHaveToBeSoComplicated
Hey,
I'm terribly neanderthal. I changed a chuck a while ago. Took a 2lb. hammer and tapped around the chuck till it loosened. One last whack and it dropped out. No muss, no fuss, no spindle damage.
And, for circles 6" and under I use a Dremel circle attachment. It takes longer but so far it's fail-safe. I trust it with the Brazilian ebony I work with. If you're in a hurry avoid this.
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