<!—-><!—-> <!—->
I just finished applying the first coat of stain on a project I built and the stain is not taking properly to where I clean up some glue residue.
<!—-> <!—->
During the assembly of my project I wiped up glue, but I guess that I might not have cleaned it up enough. I did sand the wood prior to staining
<!—-> <!—->
How can I remove these traces?
<!—-> <!—->
I am using english walnut colored wood stain (oil based) on maple veneered MDF. The glue I used is a yellow carpenter’s glue
<!—-> <!—->
<!—-> <!—->
Thanks
<!—-> <!—->
Paul
<!—-> <!—->
Replies
A cabinet scraper is often useful here since it can work into corners. There isn't a good remedy, short of paint, that doesn't require sanding or scraping back to wood that doesn't have glue impregnated in it.
For next time. Its often better not to wipe during glue-up. The wiping process can spread the glue over a wider area, and let it get deeper into pores, etc. Yellow glue can be scraped off fairly easily after it has set up, but before it is fully hardened.
I always wipe down my projects with naptha before applying stain or finish. It helps remove dust, but in this context it also reveals any places where there is glue.
What Steve said.Let me add that I have started to pre-finish pieces, taping off mortises, tenons, and dowel holes. The glue wipes off really easily once the piece has some stain and finish on it.Regards, Scooter"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Thanks guys.
lesson learned, less glue, no wiping.
this is my 2nd real project, so I am not too stressed about it.
I scraped and sanded, applied a 2nd coat of stain, looks better. I figure with the poly only I would be able to see it. I need to apply a 3rd coat to the top.
I too have begun pre finishing, for the reasons Scooter cited, plus one: I used to have trouble finishing evenly to the edges. Now I prefinish (two coats of 1.5# shellac, top coat with laquer or w-b poly) before I cut the plywood to size and everything goes much easier and faster for me.
One question for the finishing gurus: with this approach one advantage is glue doesn't stick, so cleanup is very easy. One disadvantage is, glue doesn't stick, so there is no structural help. How do you approach that? Dowels/biscuits? Score the edge with a dado stack? TIA for any experienced tips.
-robert
The simple answer is, don't finish those portions. You can use masking tape or painter's tape to block your finish from the sections you're going to glue.
Soon the experts will arrive with more ideas, but that's worked for me.
I'll add to the conversation- but most of what has been said is on point.
One thing to bear in mind: you do need some squeeze out, or you will starve the joint, and it may fail. This is particularly true of M & Ts, less so for dovetails.
So, you WILL have glue squeeze out... the worst time to clean it up, is the time when you are most tempted: immediately. When you do so, you push the glue into the pores and almost always will find it apparent when you stain. A wet rag is the kiss of death...
The best time to clean up is ~60 min after you glue up, when the glue has a rubbery consistency. It will chip off fairly easily with a chisel, chisel plane (I have a LN chisel plane given to me as a gift and this is one of the few things that I use it for), a paint scraper or a cabinet scraper.
In addition to taping, you can wax the areas next to the joint with beeswax- do a dry assemby, wax near the joint and then glue up. The wax won't invade the joint (as shellac sometimes can) and affect its strength, and it will keep the glue from staining into the pores. The glue will not bond to the waxed surface and can be easily removed in an hour or so.
When you are ready to finish, wipe down the piece with mineral spirits- it will remove the wax to allow for even finishing and will also show you any defects in your surface prep to scrape or sand (any defects will be magnified by stain).
Just my 2p,
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
> "wipe down the piece with mineral spirits- it will remove the wax to allow for even finishing"
Glaucon, I'm wondering if this can be true - does paint thinner disssolve wax? And if so, wouldn't there still be a problem with the dissolved wax entering the open grain and resisting stain, just as the watered down glue would have done if a wet rag was used? I've got melted candle wax on unfinished maple veneer and was thinking that reheating and absorbing with newspaper might be my only recourse, but I'm looking for better solutions.
My experience is that if you use lightly applied beeswax at room temp, it doesn't get into the pores the way melted wax can. I use #000 steel wool to wipe away the wax, and I haven't had any problems with stain.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
As finish carpenters our crew makes a variety of stain-grade builtins. Since custom home building is the way it is, we sometimes need to tear things apart when designs change, which gives us a great opportunity to see how durable our original assembly is.
Dry joints are often not much better than no glue. Most people make the opposite mistake.
Always apply glue by spreading it evenly with a finger or whatever. There's no other way to get good coverage without excess squeeze out. Eliminate heavy glue near edges where excess squeeze out is likely before assembly. Make sample joints and tear them apart if you don't know how much is enough.
I've worked with guys who have been building cabinets and architectural woodwork for 20 years and have never learned how durable their glue joints are until we asked them to make up a glue joint sample to tear apart. Many times the glue isn't spread evenly creating large dry areas. Other times they are going light on the glue, too light, to avoid squeeze out. One carpenter, with many years in a high-end cabinet shop, could spread glue with his finger and never have squeeze out, yet his joints were always stronger than the wood when destruction tested.
Some coworkers let the glue dry and scrape it away. The amount of glue residue left after scraping is troubling at times, especially if the squeezeout is smeared or otherwise worked into the wood pores during assembly.
I like to use a dry cloth, a cloth (t-shirt material) dampened with as little water as possible, a small putty knife to get into corners and a toothbrush to get into the pores. A fine bristled brass brush is used gently on harder woods such as oak. Clean cloths and water are essential.
The object is to lift as much of the glue from the wood as possible using the dry cloth without spreading it around. That way only a small area is wiped with the damp cloth and toothbrush. Obviously the toothbrush can only spread the glue around so it and the wood surface must be constantly wiped with a clean section of the cloth. If a section seems clean enough go over it a few more times. :-)
With a little practice it's quick, doesn't leave any residue and the moisture is minimal.
Good gluing,
Don
Two easy ways to help spot glue before you start the finishing process. I've seen both used commercially.
1. Add a flourescing agent to the glue. This allows you to pass a blacklight over the surface prior to finishing. Any residual glue will glow and you'll know immediately where it's at.
2. Either buy or custom tint glue to a brown color. Once dried it is significantly easier to see and has the added benefit, depending on stain color of course, of having color in it already... which makes any joints that aren't as tight as you'd like that much harder to spot once the piece is finished.
What I do when glue has been missed and I find it during the staining operation is to wet sand the glue using the same stain to wetsand with. There are variables depending on the hardness of the wood being stained, as well as what type, what color and how dark the stain is. So, I can't give you any hard and fast rule on what grit to use. Generally speaking 180 to 320 works in most situations.
This only works before the stain has dried! Once the stain has dried completely you'll almost never get wetsanding to yield a satisfactory result. Before the stain has dried it certainly is possible to completely fix not only residual glue spots but other things like scratches... even cross-grain scratchs using the wetsanding method.
How to wetsand with stain:
What you want to do is to dip your sandpaper in a container with the stain in it. I'd start with the coursest grit and then if that's too course change to a finer grit until you find the one that'll work best. Wet sand the problem area being sure to sand with the grain. Then to check it just lightly wipe the stain with a dry cloth. Using a circular motion until most, but not all, of the stain has been wiped away. You'll be able to see the glue area and whether it's fixed or needs a bit more. If the area is too dark because the sandpaper was too course, just rewetsand with a finer grit.
Once you have enough stain wiped off to see whether the area has been fixed you can then blend it in to the surrounding areas using light pressure. Often wetsanding will yield a slightly lighter area because the wood pores are slightly more closed than the surrounding areas and thus won't accept as much stain. So, this is the main reason for not being in too big a hurry to wipe all of the stain away. You might need to blend the repair area using some of the residual stain.
Again, this only works if the stain hasn't yet dried completely. It might be good to practice this technique on scrap just to get the hang of it. Then the next time you're finishing just keep a selection of sandpaper nearby so that you can wetsand out any problems.
Paulgartner,
I have this problem a lot. I have found that if I have just stained a piece and found a spot that I didn't get all the glue off, I sand that area with 220 grit paper and restain that area. I know that sounds unorthadox but it works for me. When it first happen to me I paniced but tried this method, make sure that you do it while the stain is still wet and it should blend ok
Hi Paul, I can't add much more to what's already been said,but I do feel that preperation is the key here./ Tho I'm not sure about all you have done, cleaning up the glue residue with a damp {only} rag is important right after glueing.The dampness helps break down the glue and helps wipe it clean. When glueing and clamping i use parifan wax between the wood to keep from sticking , also after the drying process using much of what has been suggested seems to work. I would try some denatured alcohol on a test spot, usiing a rag or cotton ball to let the chemical soak in and quickly wipe off to get down to the bare wood, and then try a small amout of water, to clean some more, bearing in mind that many glue's are water based. Hope i have been of some help. and that you don't have to do a complete restripping process.
Isawu
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled