Here’s a question for you guys with experience…I recently acquired a nice, old Stanley #4 hand plane on ebay. Problem was it arrived w/ no blade. Seller refunded me a portion of purchase price so I’m OK there, but I still need a blade. I went to Woodcrafter and found a blade, chipbreaker combo for $99 – I think it was made by Pinnacle. $99! – that’s more than I paid for the plane! I also found a replacement blade at Home Depot for $3 (no chipbreaker) made by Buck.
Can someone tell me what the difference is between these two blades? I mean in performance, use, sharpening, hold an edge, etc. Or maybe give recommendations for another brand. I’m just now acquiring a few hand tools and want tools that will perform for me, but I don’t care about labels or brand names. Thanks for the help.
Replies
If you're really really lucky, they'll have similar performance.
Do you need a chipbreaker, too?
Two options, both inexpensive compared to $100:
* buy a good shape stanley iron and chipbreaker off of ebay (should be able to find them easily for $10)
* buy a combination hock iron and chipbreaker from craftsmanstudio - for $55.
Maybe someone on here could come up with an iron and chipbreaker for you - hopefully properly set chipbreaker if it's an old stanley. I might have a pair, but I may have also thrown them all in planes I was selling off and given the rest away already.
Plane Iron Options
I've 'been there, done that' - many times, many ways. Here is my opinion:
If the old Stanley is in really good shape otherwise (sole, frog, mouth, etc.) you will get the most out of it with the Hock blade and chipbreaker combo at $55. (I use them with a #5 Bailey - they are great). However, my experience with ebay is that perhaps 1 out of 3 planes I've bought there, is, on average worth it. You didn't mention if it is a Bedrock, or regular Bailey. If its a good Bedrock (they were going for over $100 as I remember a year or so back) it has more of a chance being worth the $55 Hock. If a Bailey, to me its questionable spending $55 - given other options (below).
I have tried the Buck blade. The problem I found with it is the painted front side. The bevel edge side is machined, the other is not. It was not flat and wouldn't seat fully on my Bailey frog. You can try to sand off the paint and flaten that side - I tried. More trouble than it was worth.
Next, I would never buy the Pinnacle set at $99 - when you can get an entire Bedrock-design #4 Woodriver for $120. (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2021170/29725/WoodRiver-4-Bench-Plane-V3.aspx) - including a fine, thick blade and chipbreaker. I have the complete set of V2 Woodrivers - and the #4 is one of my favorites. I often use it just before a final pass with my Lee Valley (LV) bevel-up 4 1/2 smoother - my favorite plane for smoothing - and well worth the $230 or so it cost.
Bottom line - I have a cabinet-full of ebay Baileys I tinker with and rarely use. I use my Woodrivers, the LV 4 1/2, and an LV block Plane/#3 (with optional handles - $140 plus about $30 or so for the optional tote and knob) all the time. And my one #5 Bailey/Hock for prior rough surfacing before smoothing.
So, my advice:
1. Sell the ebay Stanley, and try to avoid future plane auction fever. I wish I had. (Don't even go look at them - ever again).
2. Use the money to buy a #4 Woodriver.
3. Get the LV block plane at $139.
4. When you can afford it (save up until you can), get the Lee Valley bevel-up 4 1/2 ( I think they call it a '164 1/2') smoother.
4. Gradually add other sizes - I'd go with a #5. The Woodriver is fine. The LV Jack BU is another option.
End up with a set of Woodrivers and LVs.
(FWIW - though I don't own any, I have compared my LVs to the similar Lie-Nielsens in a class. I personally don't see the Lie-Nielsen's worth the additional cost over the LVs..)
Good Luck!
Chris
Chris,
Excellent response.
Except for one thing. I believe that most all woodworkers who get interested in hand tools go out and buy an old Stanley, either at a flea market or on Ebay or at a garage sale. I did. I bought an old Stanley #7 and paid $65 for it. I had absolutely no idea whether it could be made useable or not. In fact, I didn't know what "useable" meant. I had been building furniture in the mode of Norm Abrams for decades but never had used a handplane.
What happened next was the fun part (if you have a wide definition of the word "Fun". I bought the Taunton book on hand planes and I used its directions to fettle the plane (and I learned what "fettle" meant). Do you know how long it took me to flatten the sole of that plane on the bed of an 8" Delta jointer? You don't want to know! But I did it. I used up a lot of sandpaper and I lost a few pounds.
I studied the literature on how to de-rust a hand plane, and on alternative irons and chipbreakers, etc etc etc. I decided to keep it all "original". I have now been doing hand tool work for a few years, and I now know what sharp means, and what a flat sole will do for you, and the difference between a Bailey and a Bedrock, and the differences between a Wood River and its lookalike twin, the Lie Nielsen. I have a part time job at Woodcraft -- for the fun of it, not for the money. Ha ha ha.
I have done six old planes. I only paid for one. The others are from ancestors. I don't plan to fettle any more old metal hand planes, but if the need arises, I know how to do it. I know what makes a LN a LN, and a LV an LV. I have now fettled a number of old woodies and I use all of them.
What happened to the OP happened to me. I bought an old plane, and wasn't sure what to do with it. What followed was a great and a fun education. The only place I disagree with your post is that it is a good thing to buy a few things on EBay (not too expensive) and at flea markets, etc. This doesn't cost much, and can result in a great deal of learning and fun.
If it wasn't for that old Stanley #7, I probably would never have jumped into working with hand tools. Was it worth the days it took to fettle? Not in a monetary sense. I spent a lot of money on sandpaper (even with my discount at Woodcraft). There were two afternoons during which I sweat a lot, and I was sore for a week. But after I did the research and figured out what the words meant, and experienced the difference (before and after), I was on my way to a new brand of woodworking -noiseless and dust free.
I have a LN #8 and my Stanley #7. I use both. I became a big fan of Lie Nielsen. They do everything right, and customer service is as good as it gets. Besides, LN planes are "free" in terms of life cycle cost. If you look on EBay, you'll see that they sell in great numbers for approximately the current retail price or slightly less. You can't beat that with a stick. If in a few years, I decide I don't want my LN #8 anymore, I am confident I could sell it on EBay for about what I paid for it, and get a few other LNs or LVs that I think I need (whatever "need" means). You can't sell a Wood River for a third of what you paid for it. The third generation of Wood Rivers is not so bad. The first generation had real problems. The second generation had the rear tote back too far. The third generation corrected that. Of course, many say that re-sale value is of no interest to them because they will never sell their tools. Well, their wives will, when they die. My wife knows how to tell which ones the LNs are. :-)
I do believe however, that if one is going to buy a new plane which is not a LV or an LN, then Wood River is not a bad way to go -- as long as you are buying the third generation (and as long as you can tell which one the third generation planer are). Certainly, the new Stanleys and the Kunz and Groz are vastly inferior to the Wood Rivers. But my advice to any woodworker interested in trying their hand at hand tools is to try to fettle some old Stanleys for the purpose of education, and then stick with Lie Nielsens. I think the LVs are as good quality as the LNs but they don't have the resale cache that the LNs do. That is unfair, and too bad, but it is true.
So congratulations to the guy who bought the Stanley on EBay. I am sure he is not out much money - probably less than a tank of gas. I hope it leads him to learn and have fun. I think there is no better way to start out in hand tools than to get some experience with the old ones.
Another way is to get a part time job at Woodcraft. The discount on tools is enormous, and you get to try them all out.
Have fun. Hope you enjoyed my thoughts as much as I enjoyed yours. I agree with your conclusions on alternative irons.
Mel
PS the next thing that the OP needs to learn, after figuring out hoe to fettle old metal planes is that there is a lot more to hand tools than hand planes -- saws, chisels, carving tools, marking and measuring, etc etc etc. AND THEN THE FUN REALLY STARTS when you find out about Hollows and Rounds.
You found one old plane, now you know what to look for! Learn what other blades from Stanley planes will fit your #4 (#5 for example). Look at Patrick Leach's site to learn a bit more about Stanley planes and then search local antique stores & flea markets. Depending upon where you live, you may find a #4 for as low as $4.00 (I have, a type 13).
Any of the Bailey planes you find will have a blade and chipbreaker that you will be able to make serviceable and learn if you want to pursue this hobby. If you are luck, maybe you'll find a laminated Stanley blade.
I don't want to say aftermarket blades are all a bunch of BS, because they're not (I have a few), but craftsmen have been doing superb work for decades using the stock Stanley setup. The other issue when using an aftermarket blade is fitting it to your plane. I believe the Pinnacle chipbreaker has the capability to be adjusted to work with a variety of planes, but you may find that because of the thickness of the blade, you will have to open (file) the mouth of the plane to make the blade fit.
Learn to use the plane as Mr. Stanley intended and then chart your future course from your experience, and not us forum browsers!
EBay Stanley plane
Old Stanleys can perform very well when properly tuned up. You should buy or othewise get (Library?) a book on tuning a handplane. There are several excellent books on this subject and TONS of information available on various web sites. Then think about buying a blade and chipbreaker- Hock and many others make very good blades for that plane. Once properly tuned it will perform well for you for many, many years (your decendants too).
I have many old Stanleys and several Lie Nielsons and Veritas (Lee Valley) planes- all perform well but all are well tuned and kept sharp. The biggest difference is the amount of work it took to get each into that shape. Some no work, some a lot.
Jeff
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