I am considering replacing my sliding glass patio door with two 36″ six-panel pine exterior doors. I’m very new at this and am wondering if I would be getting in over my head. Would it be very much more complicated than building the jamb (or buying 2 prehung exterior doors and modifying those jambs), replacing the threshhold and hanging the doors to meet in the middle like glass French doors? I searched for previous posts and couldn’t find much information specific to this question. As always, thanks in advance for any advice.
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Surprised you found anything. Try Breaktime...that's the FHB forum.
Gizmo -
This is usually a pretty straightforward project - if the new doors will fit inside the existing rough opening! If the new doors are bigger than the rough opening (wider or taller), you'll need some help dealing with modifications to the door header.
I would also recommend buying a prehung unit. It simplifies the process and eliminates the need for "tweaks" which may turn into serious "boo-boo's", or even major "aw-shid's"!! - lol
Since you're new at this, I would recommend getting some help either way. Hanging doors isn't rocket science, but it does take some skill to get them plumb so they don't swing on their own. Hanging double doors can compound the aggravation.
You'll also want to make absolutely certain that the new doors are properly flashed and leakproof - particularly the threshold. I've replaced quite a few exterior doors where a realtively simple job got complicated because the original doors "leaked".
Hi,
I did the exact same thing around 5 years ago on 3 different openings. If your walls are concrete block everything is pretty straight forward. I installed the frame seperate. Don't know why, but even doing this way is all went smooth. I would get prehung next time. They are awkward and heavy so get some help with the muscle part. Has previously advised try the boys over at Fine Homebuilding Breaktime for aditional help.
Good luck,
mike
Sliders are rough framed smaller than swing size doors, so don't go the build your own without exploring your wall first.
However, the Big box stores sell them in two sizes pre-hung, any you have to be a little crazy to not use a pre-hung if you are going with something standard over buying the parts and hanging them yourself.
If you are making something that can't be found anywhere else, that is another thing.
Everyone,
Thanks for all of the input and excellent advice, which I will definitely be following. I knew I could count on you.
Dave45, I have recent firsthand experience with the whole "swinging on its own" thing. I hung my very first door last week - 6-panel pine, master bathroom - alllll by myself, stubbornly refusing numerous offers of help from my husband (pats self on back) and managed to get it to close and latch and square up after only, um, eight total hours. Or so. (Back-patting hand stutters and slows.) Made a few bonehead mistakes I hopefully won't repeat. Sadly, in order to get it to close and hang straight in the jamb, I had to push one side of the jamb forward (in) over the threshold about 1/4 of an inch, and that baby swings almost all the way closed with no outside assistance whatsoever (back-patting hand removed and relocated to face, shielding in shame). Please don't pelt me with stones, O Wise Ones, but I finally decided I would just have to live with that imperfection (it looks and works great otherwise) instead of ripping the whole door down and starting over and ending up in the headlines: "Crazed Woman Barricades Self In Doorless Bathroom with Nail Gun -- S.W.A.T. team steps on air hose and takes her into custody without incident as she shields her face in obvious shame. Woodworkers everywhere fork the sign of the evil eye at her image and her name is not spoken in the presence of small children. In other news..."
Thanks again and have a great weekend!
Congratulations!! I won't mention how long I spent trying to hang my first door - nor how many times I told myself that the self closing feature was intended - lol.
Now (many doors later), I can modestly say that I can swap a prehung hollow core door in about two hours - including casing, caulking, and preparation for priming and paint. It just takes a little practice and the right tools.
As you discovered, the "plumbness" of the hinge side rough framing is very important and sometimes you just gotta take whatever it gives you. That's when the old "bend a hinge pin" trick can be your salvation. A slight bend in a hinge pin can add just enough friction to make the door stop swinging on it's own.
Sometimes, however, you just aren't gonna get there from here. Last fall we installed 12 Andersen Frenchwood patio doors on a semi-mansion and only four of them went in without a fight. Six of them were nine footers and the walls were WAY off. We plumbed them as much as we could and used the adjustable hinges as much as possible.
For your patio door, take your time and you'll be fine. Just make sure that you get it flashed and sealed so it's water tight. Fixing water damage can get very expensive.
So, bend the hinge pin, hmm? Exactly in the middle? With any particular tool?
2 hours...sigh. I'm not worthy. Yet. That's how long I thought it would take me. "Cake," I thought. Turns out that thought was right on target because incidentally, I can't bake worth a crap either.
Thanks for the advice and encouragement - and generously making me feel better:
"Sometimes, however, you just aren't gonna get there from here. Last fall we installed 12 Andersen Frenchwood patio doors on a semi-mansion and only four of them went in without a fight. Six of them were nine footers and the walls were WAY off. We plumbed them as much as we could and used the adjustable hinges as much as possible."
Yep, bend the hinge pin. It's an incredibly high precsion process which requires a small block of wood and a calibrated hammer.
While mumbling the appropriate incantations and spells, you lay the pin head on the wood block with the other end on the floor (I usually do this in the garage or driveway.) Carefully whack it with your calibrated hammer and try for a very slight bend (a few thousandths is usually plenty). When you have your bend, reinsert the pin (you may have to use your hammer to persuade it to go back into the hinge leaves) and you should be good to go. Always make sure that the head is on the wood block. If it isn't, the pin will bend in the wrong direction and it will never work again. (snicker, snicker)
You can't bake either??!! Whassamattayou??!! Not only can I hang a door in a couple of hours, I'm a helluva cook, too. Tonight, I'm doing grilled salmon and tiger prawns. Toss a salad and open a bottle of cabernet and life is good. If I ask real pretty, SWMBO may even bake a cake - lol.
Incantations and spells? I gotcher incantations right heah. *&^%$#*!!!
I do bake a mean batch of Toll House cookies - probably because that's the only thing that ever turns out right. Like Dirty Harry says, a woman's gotta know her limitations. Or somethin like that.
I just know I'm leaving the door wide open (no pun intended) for you to give me a ration of you-know-what if I ask this, but I have to make sure: "calibrated" hammer? That doesn't exist, right? If it does, I was just, uh, testing you. Yeah that's it. You know what? Don't even answer. I'm gonna look it up. Leave me 'lone.
Thanks for the 'snicker, snicker', clue. I feel so earnest and damp behind the ears right now I would never have caught the "it'll bend the wrong way" crack. "Block on floor...head on block...tongue sticking out of side of mouth...hold breath...readjust pin...hair catching on nail in block...oops, wrong head" And FYI, I already read the newbie hazing thread, so don't even think about trying any of those on me! Please?
Thanks again - you da bomb!
P.S. Dinner sounds delish - we'll be there around 6
Issue #160 of Fine Homebuilding, Dec. 03-Jan. 04, page 62: a complete article, with pictures, on hanging French doors...exactly the info you need. Let me know if you can't find it locally librarily and/or don't want to wait for delivery, and i will dig it out of the catacombs and scan it for you. http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/fh_toc_160.aspI buy those slice-and-bake cookies when i really want to impress people with my cookery skills. Do you actually buy the mix to which you have to add ingredients?
Sweet!!!! THANK YOU! I looked all over for articles and info and came up empty. Guess I was once again looking in the wrong place. I found quite a few other articles in the archives that will be useful to me, too, so I'll probably end up buying a 'multi-pack'. Woo hoo!
"I buy those slice-and-bake cookies when i really want to impress people with my cookery skills. Do you actually buy the mix to which you have to add ingredients?"
Heck no, I make 'em from scratch. Slice 'n bake cookie dough just doesn't taste the same when you're licking the spoon. :o) Everything else - cakes, brownies, etc., gets bought pre-made or in a box. Gotta cut my losses somewhere.
Gizmo, you are a breath of fresh air working on a Category One rating (causes negligible house damage). I hope you stick around.You can also check out The Journal of Light Construction. I just now typed "french door" into the search in the upper left hand of this page:http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefrontI saw some articles there, many for free, that might also be of some assistance, but i remembered the FHB article off the top of my head. Those are my two favorite mags for residential construction information.One of the tricks i use on a difficult hang is to run strings from corner to corner on both diagonals. When the strings just kiss in the center, you know the door isn't in wind, meaning it will close tightly and equally around all edges. You can adjust for other problems like plumb or fudge your jambs to a nonconformist wall as necessary, but being in plane, to my thinking, is the first issue to resolve, and the larger the door, the more important.Cookies...still trying to figure out what part a spoon plays...
Splinter -
That's a geat idea about the strings. Keeping a double door in the same plane can get pretty problematic and I never thought of using strings. Us studly, macho, he-man types just keep beating on it 'til it fits, y'know. - lol
Gizmo, you should get to know Splinter. I've seen several of her posts and she knows what she's doing. Maybe she won't pull your chain too much, either - lol
Splinter -
The spoon is for eating the cookie dough right out of the bowl. Ovens?? We don't need no stinking ovens!!
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but a TRUE pro would have figured out why this job required the purchase of a MIG welder.
"Thanks for the vote of confidence, but a TRUE pro would have figured out why this job required the purchase of a MIG welder."
P.S. MIG welder....cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Dave: You have been replaced, chain-puller!
P.P.S. Is the string technique to be used when shimming the jamb, or on the rough framing?
P.P.P.S. Dave, the pin-bending trick worked like a charm! You're back! I'll even let you pull one over on me again, just for old-times sake. (Yeah, like I would know the difference even if I didn't give you permission...I KNEW you were b.s.-ing me about the calibrated hammers, but I was trying to picture where to find the board-stretchers and the left-handed framuses anyway. Sigh. There's no sense pretending...it's hopeless.)
Ok, I'm spending more time on this message board than I am on my projects, so I'm gonna sign off and go fire up some power tools...ARR ARR ARR!
Thanks again, everybody
--Lara
Home Depot seems to suck in direct proportion to how much the customer doesn't have a clue what they want. It's a resource, not your shop teacher. I never ever expect a special order to arrive intact or the right color or when they say, BUT...my local box delivered 28 SQ. of architectural shingles and 30# felt to the roof with a boom truck, no extra charge. Two muscular boys with young vertebrae UNLOADED and DISTRIBUTED everything while i stood around in my faintly faded glory. They got a big enough tip to get well buzzed after work.Where do you live, Lara? I used to refuse to fill out the profile, then i realized the location thing made sense, then, well, i simply couldn't stop myself. Reason i'm asking is that a friend is replacing the rot at the bottom of his wooden French doors in the Southeastern location...another reason, besides glazing being desireable, that you might want to go with the metal or fiberglass type on an exterior set. The string technique is used on the door jambs. The rough framing is ... rough. If i am installing a RO myself, i choose the best studs with the fewest knots and plumb them, too, but it sounds like you'll be working with what you already have, so you'll just deal with it, as long as the opening is large enough; absolutely check to make sure it is before hauling your doors home. The string doesn't have anything to do with shimming per se; shimming regulates the SQUARENESS of the installation, not the PLANE or flatness of it. Are you clear about the dimension in which it works or should i start over?Now, to go find a 16d nail to deflate my head after all your bowing and scraping, then get back to chopping wood and carrying water.Spoon...that's one of those hand tools, right? I prefer power tools, though i had a harrowing experience with a mixer beater, so i'm pretty committed to Subway since then. Good thing it wasn't the dough hook...it would have been like the final scene of "Braveheart" where they disembowel Mel Gibson, but not in time to prevent his making that "Passion" movie.
Yeah, I shouldn't malign HD too much; we have one less than a mile from our home (we live in Colorado - climate getting drier by the day) and I go there at least twice a week. For the most part, they meet my needs. The couple of times we've special-ordered, though, were fiascos. So we just decided that next time we need to S.O. something, we'll do it through someone else. And I've carried enough shingles up a ladder and across a roof to a) know my vertebrae ain't young OR muscular and b) know I never, never, never want to do that again.
Don't try to hide it...I know the real reason you wanted to know where I live. You WANT me as your apprentice, you NEED me as your apprentice, and you can't HANDLE the truth! Oh wait, that's not how that line went. Sorry, couldn't resist a lil' movie quotation. The Deer Hunter is one of my favorites, BTW...a true classic. And anything with Robert DeNiro running nekkid down the street gets two thumbs up in my book!
Ok, I'm thinking the plane is the dimension in which the door swings...right? So if I stand at the hinge side and look at the latch side, that's the plane. And the squareness is when I'm standing in front of the door looking through it?
I prefer to think of the spoon (especially as relates to cookie dough) as an extension of the body, not a mere tool. The sacred dance of spoon to dough to mouth is beauty in motion. Mmmmmmmmmmm....cookie dough.....
Now, where did I leave that axe?
I don't think you'd like my hours. I was picking up tools at 3 am from SR'ing the solarium. You've got plane and sqaure down fine. Then there's plumb and straight...test is in the mail. You make a spoon sound like a sex toy. Finally i understand the old Judy Collins song, "I always cook with honey..."One bad thing about being handy is you become indispensable. I'm off to try to fix a well pump for a galpal...NOT my planned day.
" 'You make a spoon sound like a sex toy. Finally i understand the old Judy Collins song, "I always cook with honey...' "
Ha! I never thought of it that way. Think I'll go bake some cookies. :o)
Gizmo & Splinter -
Is this thread degrading?? Just curious - lol
The content? Or the thread itself? I'm also a message board newbie so this stuff is ALL Greek to me!! (Speaking of that, what is a "troll" as relates to message-boarding? Is that someone who only posts to cause trouble?)
At any rate, not to fear - or, be very, very, frightened, depending on your point of view...I've mostly solved my French door and other door-hanging quandaries thanks to all of you, but I am sure to blunder across something else I don't have a clue what to do about, and soon. Getting ready to fire up the router and the sliding compound miter saw (with laser attachment, ARR ARR ARR) and make some molding later this week. I'm green, but I'm also Safety Girl who Follows all Rules and Instructions, so there shouldn't be any carnage.
If (oh who am I kidding, WHEN) you see my pathetic little green hand waving out there amongst the flotsam and jetsam, bobbing farther and farther out to sea, I'd be much obliged if you'd throw me another rope. :o) (besides, if you can't tell, I truly enjoy 'talking' to everyone. What a hoot you people are!!)
A "troll" is an easily spelled word for the intellectually challenged who can't be bothered to come up with some admirable description such as Bette Davis' "My passions were all gathered together like fingers that made a fist." You've got the laser-guided mistake-maker, eh? Yum. I was seduced into unplugging last weekend by a Clifton plane with bubinga knob and tote to clean up some window jambs i cut down for interior walls. I hope i can curb/kerb this silliness before it gets out of hand and into my wallet.
Colleen,
<<I hope i can curb/kerb this silliness before it gets out of hand and into my wallet.>>
Awww..come on now.... Here, let me help you: Shove, shove. <<Whooooosh>> Don't you feel better, now that you've been "helped" over the edge and are sliding your way down that slippery slope????
Just go for it....less noise, less saw dust, more control over what you're doing with the wood, smaller electric bill.... Plus, ya know that plane just felt "right" in your hands, didn't it? Just like it belonged there.... Ya know you're really a hand tool user at heart, despite your despicable history of exploiting those poor electron-munching tailed apprentices..... ;-)
Planes & shaves & chisels, oh my!
BTW: Bubinga-equipped Cliftons ain't too shabby a way to be seduced into unplugging into that "silliness"!!! Congratulations!Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen!
James
<<Just go for it....less noise, less saw dust, more control over what you're doing with the wood, smaller electric bill....>> I guess a lot depends on whether one needs to make a living at this. When i needed to bring in a minumum of $35/hour for shop time, i wanted a 220V outlet in every stud bay. Now that i'm 'retired' and only working on house remodels, i find that a hand tool here and there can be quite pleasant. I must admit the chief impulse for using the plane was the imagined effect of using my power hand planer in my little solarium.
...Bette Davis' "My passions were all gathered together like fingers that made a fist."
Now, that is a beautiful quote. On to lesson #2: What is a Clifton plane? I'd love to get into using hand tools but this project is already taking far longer than I'd ever anticipated...and I have SO much to learn, Sensei
P.S. ARE we annoying people, do you think?
lesson #2: What is a Clifton plane?
It's the sort of thing a boy will give you right before he sticks his tongue in your ear and attempts to suck all your brains out! "Ha!!!" i said. "I'm not letting THAT happen again!"
A shaper is to a router what a Cummins Diesel is to a Mini Cooper. You can mount a special collet on it to accept bits, but the sharp parts are called cutters instead of bits, and they are normally mounted on a spindle which sticks up through the table. There is another way of mounting cutters in a head, but you won't likely run into it except in a millworks.
Google is your friend.
Edited 7/22/2006 12:50 pm ET by splintergroupie
Coooooooooooooooooooooooool....thanks
Gizmo -
Are you making a fluted casing? After you've messed up some lumber, let me know and I'll take some pictures of the jig I've used to make flutes for fireplace mantles.
Dave -
Nope, not fluted...I'm building headers for the doors and windows that are a cross between American Craftsman and Traditional style. The baseboards will be fairly simple; I'll probably use 1x6 stock and just run a beading bit along the top. Those pictures are great! Any other project photos? I'm always up for new ideas :o)
Heyyyyyyy, wait a minute!! Whaddaya mean, "after you've messed up some lumber"! Where's the confidence? Where's the support? Where's the encouragement?
(later...)
Where'd all my lumber go?
Edited 7/21/2006 4:34 pm ET by gizm0
Giz -
Do you have a router table? Running long pieces of molding is much easier if you have a router table and some infeed/outfeed support. You'll also want to make (or buy) some feather boards to hold the stock firmly down on the table and against the fence. (No chain pulling here - google "feather boards")
If you don't have a router table, get a couple of sawhorses, a long (8' - 10') piece of 2"x6" and a couple of spring clamps. With a little practice, you'll be whipping out your moldings like a pro. Oh yeah, don't forget a shop vac. Routers makes LOTS of sawdust - lol.
Here are a couple of recent projects. I make most of my own moldings on a router/shaper.
Very nice!! How long have you been woodworking? I aspire to be that good someday.
I do have a router table. It's nothing fancy, just a benchtop Bosch. And I have read about featherboards - can I make those with my miter saw? And are sawhorses sufficient for infeed/outfeed support if they're the right height? The table has a dust collection port and I have an older Craftsman shop vac that I'm hoping will be sufficient. I'm a big reader; spent most of my time lately figuring out and finding what I need and how to use it. Now I'm making wary mental circles around the router and miter saw, trying to get up the courage to get started. I don't know if you 'sperienced folk go through this too, but I always have this period of sheer intimidation before I start a new project or use a tool or machine I'm not familiar with and I make up reasons to delay. Then, once I actually get my hands on it, no problem. Hoping to move into that phase this weekend - wish me luck!!
P.S. What is a shaper?
That router table should be fine - as long as you have a solid bench or table to set it on. Routing operations can be a little dangerous and you don't want the router table or the workpiece trying to wander around on their own. Nothing should move unless you're totally controlling the movement.
Before you even plug it in, you should make sure you know how to mount the router in the table, secure the table to your bench, and operate the controls (start/stop the router, adjust the bit height, change bits, adjust the fence etc). Once you've figured that out, make a few dry runs (with the router still unplugged) while you figure out how you'll stand at the table and move your hands as you feed the workpiece. This may sound a little silly, but things can go bad in a nanosecond and you don't want pieces of wood flying across the shop because you lost control.
When you feel fairly comfortable with everything, start by using a round over bit on some scrap lumber about 12" - 24" long. Work on your stance and hand position while you smoothly feed the board into the bit. Don't use boards shorter than about 12" - short boards can take some special handling. Don't try to handle long boards at this point, either. You want to get comfortable making a smooth pass thru the router without having to move your feet. When you can comfortably do that, then you can work on handling longer boards.
Even if your shop vac hose fits the router table dust chute, I would leave it off for now. You should get aquainted with the sound your router makes as it does its job and the shop vac noise may mask that. A simple round over bit shouldn't be a problem, but more complicated profiles can work it harder and you should develop the ability to listen to your router and know how hard you're working it.
I've never tried to make feather boards with a miter saw - I just buy those inexpensive plastic ones.
Don't let your tools intimidate you, but be very respectful of them. Think about what you're trying to do and practice, practice, practice. The two most dangerous tools you'll ever use are:
A tool you know nothing about but try to use anyway.
A tool you think you've mastered.
#2 scares me the most. I've been woodworking for almost 40 years without any serious accidents or injuries. Last March, a small piece of wood caught the blade of my table saw and hit me in the face. If I hadn't been wearing my glasses, I would be writing this with one eye instead of two - lol.
Thanks so much for the advice; I am all set!! I've been familiarizing myself with the router and the table for weeks with the manuals and some books ("Woodworking with the Router" is an excellent book; all the other ones I found skipped right over the stuff I need to know as a rookie). Did some practice runs last night like you said and I do feel much more comfortable now, although still very, very aware of where my hands (and the rest of my extremities) are and what the router is doing. Tried to make a featherboard but I don't think the miter saw is the right tool; it's too hard to control how far the blade reaches into the wood.
Back to it!!! Thanks again, my friend - I will post some pictures when I get my first project done. :o)
Bandsaw is the proper too to make a featherboard. You can also do it on a tablesaw, but not as a rookie.You can even - ahem - make one by hand, i've been told.I always find i have to let a new tool 'acclimate' before i use it. I found a new PC690 in its box a couple years after i moved the last time...i'd forgotten i had it.
Buying those plastic featherboards is the easiest of all - lol. I use them until they're pretty badly chewed up then get some more. Same for my pushsticks.
How's the weather up there, Splinter? We're into our 7th consecuitive day of 100* plus weather and it's getting pretty old. My neighborhood has been having power outages all weekend and they're talking about rolling blackouts today. The weather guessers think this MAY let up by Wednesday - lol.
I don't think i even have a featherboard in my shop. I didn't have a bench vise for the first 24 years of woodworking, either, but they are right handy...shoulda done it years ago. <G>Heat...gawd, this 100-degree oven we're in is awfully like the Central Valley, except without the easy winters you folks get as compensation. The Packer Gulch Fire just east of us was the #1 fire in the nation last Friday. The guy who was for years my best friend, and the sole inspirational force for my buying a broken-down Victorian to restore, lives in San Jose on Schiele off the Alameda. He's been working for 20 years on a masterpiece there, among several other places he and his wife bought and restored in the style. He used to make midnight raids for house partz on Victorians the city was bulldozing one after another. I remember babysitting the kid and stripping columns while he ran marble through the tile saw. Did you know you can rout marble with carbide bits in a woodworking router?
Where in the hardware store do you find the plastic featherboards and push sticks?
I got my last ones at a place called Western Tool Supply here in San Jose. I also think I've seen them at Home Depot but can't be sure.
Have you discovered the Rockler website (http://www.rockler.com)? Get out your credit card and go surfing................they got LOTS of neat toys - lol.
How's the router practice going? I did a 3/8" rabbet and a 1/4" roundover on a faceframe this morning. When (if) it cools off, I'll go back and clean up the mess. We're in the ninth day of >100* weather and my enthusiasm wanes sharply when the shop starts to feel like the inside of an oven - lol.
As a matter of fact, I actually get the Rockler catalog (I think we were looking for wood floor registers or something awhile back and that was one of the resources I found) but there's so much stuff in there I get overwhelmed when I'm looking at it. Now that I have something specific to look for, though...
The router practice is going really well!! I reduced a bunch of wood to sawdust and actually moved on from practicing to actually making some molding. Most of it turned out great (well, rookie great) but I did have some problems with one piece - see my question under jigs and tips "routing small pieces of stock".
Since you're here, I do have one more question: I have the two featherboards that came with the table clamped to the fence. Should I have to exert quite a bit of pressure to get the stock to pass under the featherboards or does that mean I don't have enough clearance for the wood?
The weather here is up in the high 90's, too...and I feel your pain. My shop (hee hee, I have a 'shop') is in our oversized unattached garage, and even with the overhead door open, I'm sweatin'. I ended up getting a new shop vac 'cause my old one started making noises like it was going to blow up, and my little setup works great!! It's not purty, and DH kind of chuckled at it (after I was SURE he'd be impressed with my ingenuity - I was crushed) but I'm pretty pleased with myself.
What is a faceframe?
Giz -
It's cooled off a little here - we got thru yesterday without losing power for a change - lol. They may be lying, but it's supposed to get back to near normal temperatures by the weekend.
I read your other post and I'm not real clear on what you're trying to do. Routing short pieces on a router table can be real tricky. When my fence opening is bigger than the workpiece, I sometimes make a temporary fence with the opening just slightly larger than the bit.
Another possible solution is to use the router freehand. If the piece is big enough, I lay it on an anti-skid mat and just let the guide bearing ride along the edge. That usually does the job just fine.
A faceframe is the solid wood "face" you see on most cabinets. The carcass is the cabinet "box" and is usually made from plywood. The faceframe is a solid wood frame that attaches to the front of the carcass.
Here are a couple of pictures of a project I'm doing as we speak. It's a rolling stand for a large bedroom TV set. The customer wants it to sit about 12" higher than it does now and be movable for cleaning. This faceframe will have a panel covered with speaker cloth and the whole stand will be painted black.
Great pictures!! Do you mostly build furniture?
Forestgirl replied to my other post with exactly the info I was looking for. I did try to route the piece without any support on the table but I couldn't control it and even though I had my fence closed down around the bit as close as possible, the wood kept slipping into the bit and getting eaten (always on the very last cut so I'd have to start completely over, &*^%!). It's long, about 6', just not wide, and I stood well back so my hands are still intact. And I don't think I'm confident enough yet to take the router out of the table and use it freehand that way. But, I managed to get a couple of servicable pieces made, so I'll use those for now and will probably go back after I get better at this and replace those pieces (kind of under a deadline; DH is tired of looking at the raw drywall). I am pretty proud of the other pieces, though; they look just like the picture!
Did you see the question in my last post to you about the pressure and clearance needed for featherboards?
Stay cool! Thanks again for your help
--Lara
Lara? Of Dr. Zhivago fame? Add a "u" and you have my kid sister's name. Kid? Did I say kid?? The old bat is in her mid forties and working on her second husband.
Setting up featherboards improves with experience. The idea is to have just enough pressure to keep the workpiece snug (not necessarily tight) against the fence and/or table. If it takes a lot of effort to move the workpiece, you probably have it (them) too tight.
Using a router freehand is actually pretty easy. In fact, I did it that way for several years before I even got a router table. Be VERY CAREFUL with those short pieces. Messing up some wood is ok, but you really don't want to slip and get your fingers in the bit. Blood flies everywhere and it smarts!!
Do you have a digital camera? If you could post some pictures of what you're doing (or trying to do - lol) maybe some of us could give you some more specific advice.
Lara? Of Dr. Zhivago fame?
The very same. My dad says it means something in Etruscan, too, but I suspect they got it from the movie. Tell your (I'm sure) beyootiful and non old bat-like sister (for SHAME) that her name is in good company. And if she's your kid sis, does that make you Dracula? Hear tell he's got a couple of centuries under his belt. Ha.
Yep, I had 'em too tight. I will back off a little on the clearance, thanks!
I do have a digital camera & will try to post some pics this weekend. Kind of a rookie in that area too.
Bandsaw, hmm? Well, lookie there. My dad has one of those (he is a journeyman carpenter...still working his butt off full time at 68 years old or I would be pestering HIM instead of you guys). Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has to 'acclimate' tools before using them...I set up my miter saw and router table Sunday and Monday, and by this afternoon I had some nice molding for my front door!! Then I had to go to work. :o( Some of the pieces turned out great, some servicable...I'll be posting a new question in a bit.
If your dad is like most tradesmen, he considers both your and the bandsaw his offspring. Just think of it as enlisting a sibling's help.
"If your dad is like most tradesmen, he considers both your and the bandsaw his offspring. Just think of it as enlisting a sibling's help."
I wonder if my new brother wants to come live with me awhile :o)
Be generous, girl...open your heart...take them all in.
Are we disturbing people? ;^)
Edited 7/19/2006 4:19 pm ET by splintergroupie
Splinter -
A true pro doesn't explain why. It's enough that he (I) sez he needs one. When did gods (or goddesses) start explaining themselves to mere mortals?? - lol
You're right, dammit! And i had a birthday this year, didn't I? And i've got a rototiller missing a couple tines, right?Almost talked into it...
Splinter,
Thanks for YOUR vote of confidence! You have no idea how good that makes me feel. The least I was counting on was trying not to be too much of a PITA to all of you gods and goddesses. And I (& my very patient, understanding, loving - did I say patient already? only minor twitching - husband) can only hope that the damage will be negligible!
Speaking of goddesses, you have my full attention and utmost respect as a sista in this biz. I am an empty pitcher, sensei...(BTW, do you need an apprentice? >hands behind toolbelt-clad waist, bats eyes, toes ground with reinforced work boot<)
Ok, ok, the rest of you have that from me too. But we ladies gotta stick together. And have you seen the pic on her profile? ROFLMAO!
All of this is especially indispensable to me because I'm replacing every single door (hollow-core, fugly, POS) in my house with pine 6-panel doors, and all of the trim (fugly, fugly, fugly) in the house with kind of a modified American Craftsman style that I'll be making with my brand-new router. Just as soon as I figure out what I'm doing. Hey, so far I'm an EXCELLENT manual and woodworking book reader. And an EXCELLENT driver. Yeah...definitely. HD sucks. We did all of this in our previous home with the help of (ok, ok, he did it with OUR help) a friend who knows what he's doing already; this time around I want to do it all on my own. Y'all will get a little credit too. :o)
"Cookies...still trying to figure out what part a spoon plays..." Sadly, sometimes the spoon plays a bigger part than the cookie sheet and the oven. LOVE cookie dough.
GOTCHA!!!!
ROFLMAO!!!!
You'll find calibrated hammers in the tool section between the board stretchers and left handed framuses.
Toll House cookies are a good start You sound a little like my #2 daughter. When she was learning to cook, she once asked me - as serious as a heart attack - "If the directions say to bake at 350* for 25 minutes, will it bake faster if I use a higher temperature?" She's always been impatient and I still tell everyone that she uses the smoke detector as a cooking timer.
Dave, are they not still a joy? My #2 D was taught how to check for spark, gas and power in her car. Her sister #1D said "I don't need to know that as I have a quarter to call you" Life is good, but a challenge. Rgds, Pat
They certainly are. Mine are in their 30's now and have good lives and careers under way. #2 is married and they bought a small home last year. I expect to be putting in quite a bit of time there as they start actually implementing some of their ideas for the place. #1 hasn't found Mr. Right so far and still lives in an apartment. She keeps teetering back and forth about buying a place, but hasn't taken the plunge yet.
They grew up learning (not always voluntarily - lol) about how things work. Part of their drivers education included checking the oil and fluids in their cars, airing up tires, and listening for noises that needed to be investigated before serious damage happened.
I figure that something must have worked pretty well. We all got thru their adolescence without any overt attempts at homicide and became friends. We laugh and tease a lot, but my day gets made occasionally when one of them says "Dad, we need to talk". I'll take that - lol.
PHLBBBTTTTT!
You should be ASHAMED of yourself!...Dad. You're right, though. Some of my best memories are hanging out with my pops at the hardware store (back in the day before the big-box) and working on cars. Well, him working, me watching. I picked up just enough info to really, really screw things up. Kind of like what I'm doing now. I have one thing to say to your daughter: You go, girl! We don' need no stinkin' timer!
Giz,
My mom's gouse flooded in Katrina, and her sliding glass door was broken in the process. Instead of replacing the glass on a 40year old sliding glass door, we replaced it with a double french door from home depot. They were sized perfectly for our rough opening. The windows are double pane, with blinds on the inside, and you can get them with the dividers so they appear to have 8 panes. You may be able to get solid doors with no windows as well. The door cost about $499, me and a friend put it in ourselves, I think home depot charges $300 for installation. It was a bit tricky, and cumbersome, but not impossible. I would suggest getting a friend that is familiar with something like this to supervise, not to mention it is going to take 2 people to move this thing around. Good luck,
Lee
Lee,
Hope your mom is safely settled back in her home. What a nightmare.
From your and others' advice, I think I will go the Home Depot route; no sense making things harder than they need to be, right? Especially since it looks like it'll be a bit of a challenge for a baby DIY like me. Luckily I have a lot of great friends and a liquor store right down the street!
Thanks for taking the time to write & have a great weekend!
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