Picked up 2 Freud blades at the Seattle WWing show. Can report on one tonight, the other tomorrow after I try it out. Put on the LU85R, 80-tooth “Ultimate Cutoff Blade” this morning and cross-cut several pieces of oak and a couple pine with it. Smooth as glass as advertised! The teeth are ground extremely close to the blade body, so the end-grain is polished as it goes through. A very quiet and stable blade.
I did have a problem with the first few cuts — got a bit of a burn and spot of red (from the Teflon) at the very beginning of the cut. I experimented with blade height — raised the blade just a tad — and made sure I was holding the stock tightly, and the problem was eliminated.
Going to try the combo blade tomorrow. My old combo blade was getting a bit dull, so picked up the Freud just to try it.
DENNIS: Who do you send your blades to for sharpening? Have you ever used “Emerald Tools” in Seattle??
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 10/30/2002 12:26:07 AM ET by forest_girl
Replies
Forest_Girl Thanks for the report. I need a few new T/S blades myself. Here on the east coast the only place I know to get Freud Blades is Sears.
Anybody know someplace else?
Dave in Pa.
Woodworkers Warehouse. They have stores in PA. I bought a rip blade there a couple of months ago.
http://www.woodworkerswarehouse.com/maps/penn.htmBe seeing you...
Dave, where are you in PA? In the Pittsburgh area, I can offer lotsa advice.
Mike
I just north and east of Philly in Bensalem Township, Bucks county. I got a Wood Workers Warehouse in Warminster if they haven't closed by now. In the last year and a half two of them have closed in the area along with my local Woodcraft store re-locating to Downington. Thats 30 miles away, easy. The only way there is the PA. turnpike and that can be a big hassle.
Dave,
Do you know about the Woodworks 2002 show coming to Ft. Washington this weekend? they'll be there Friday Sat & Sun.
The web site is: http://www.woodworks2002.com I figure there should be enough vendors there that you might find someone selling the Freuds.
Sorry about the Woodcraft moving - but now they're just 5 minutes from my house.
Tom Sweeney
Lucky you. I got my Jet T/S from them before they closed the doors here in Bensalem. I may go to the show Friday or Saturday after work. I work in Willow grove so it's right around the corner for there.
Dave in Pa.
So if I read this correctly you guys are saying that for everyday use a combo blade like the LU84 is the way to go. But for fine furniture or cabinet work its best to have a dedicated cross ( Freud model?) cut & a dedicated rip (Freud model?) blade & how about the RAS (Freud model?). What about the CMS blade (Freud model?) do you recommend.
I am thinking of picking up some Freud blades over time, they seem to be a good middle of the road blade price wise & recieve good recommendations on several boards. But is been mostly general info. Blade model specifics would be appreciated.
Bart, I got by with a good combo blade for quite a long time actually. But I decided I wanted an excellent cross-cut blade to cut pieces for my jersey cases, most specifically the mitered ends of the moldings because I wanted them ultra-smooth and precise, hence the willingness to spend money on a specialized blade (LU 85).
If I hadn't wanted quite the ultra-polish on those crosscuts, I would have bought the F-80 instead, and may still pick it up at some point. Why? It's very, very good for cross-cutting and for sheet goods, if you're not doing big production runs.
A top-drawer combo blade will do much of what you need (based on my limited experience and tons of advice from people who do WWing for a living). I can't testify to the relative quality of any combo blade vs. the Forrest Woodworker II. The believers in that blade are very dedicated indeed.
I talked with Michael quite a bit at the show about his use of blades, and he uses the F-80 for fine veneered plywoods and loves it. As far as ripping blades go, the reasons I want to get a dedicated blade for ripping are:
I have an "underpowered" saw -- Jet Contractors
I have a jointer, so I can finish the edges with that
I don't want to wear out my combo blade with ripping
Again, I'd strongly recommend getting their catalog. Actually, they make a small brochure on their blades only now. If you want, I could send you my copy and you could look it over, but the catalog gives great detail on the blades.
Toll Free Number: 800-334-4107
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/1/2002 12:30:16 PM ET by forest_girl
Jamie,
We're going to have to put you on the payroll!
Charles M
Freud, Inc.
Anytime! Could definitely use the extra income, LOL. Did I make sense above? Cool.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Charles, need some insight here. When I was at the show, I picked up the LU84M combo blade. Didn't really look around for any other combos in the Freud display, just grabbed that one. Now I'm looking at the sawblade brochure and have some questions. I notice that the hook angle in the LU84 is 10 degrees, in the F40 it's 18. Also notice that the F40 has those question-mark-shaped slots cut in it, the LU84 does not. What are the pros and cons of the two blades relative to each other. Am wondering if I picked the right blade.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The F410 has evolved into a competitor to the Forrest WWII. It is nearly the same price and has nearly the same specs. There is a lot of debate over which is better: 40 tooth general purpose or combination. They both have the ability to rip and crosscut but the best way I can think to describe the difference is that the Combo puts more emphasis on ripping and the general purpose has the emphasis on crosscut. The g.p. blades like the F410 and WWII have very low side relief angles and will burnish the material as they rip but this leads to excess heat and can cause burning but the ATB grind does a fine job with crosscuts and even plywood. The combo blades have dedicated raker teeth and large gullets which make them great for ripping but the ATB teeth are less exposed than on the g.p. blades so they are slightly less effective on plywood. The question mark slots you mentioned are for heat expansion but on the combo blade they are unnecessary because the large gullets have the same effect. Based on what I know of your applications I think you made the right choice.
Charles M
Freud, Inc.
Edited 11/1/2002 4:54:41 PM ET by CHARLES_MC
Charles: if you put Jamie on the Freud pay roll your profit margin would leap sky High.. even better you could have her as the Freud pin up poster girl..
Jamie if you get any of these positions I mentioned to Charles there would be no need to thank me,just send me,Dennis& Sarge a few free blades and signed posters..
ToolDoc
Doc
I did get an FS recently on Adrian's recommendation and it is excellent. A little pricey for me. I have used nothing but Freuds for over 3 years and have 4 different teeth as I change blades for application. I have excellent results with them and they're in-epensive enough that you can use the proper tooth blade for a certain job.
There are other good blades out there. I have used the Freuds as they are reasonably priced, have a wide selection of blades for various uses, can be purchased in numerous places that are convenient and mainly---They get the job done!! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!! I be sticking with Freud as I have done..
sarge..jt
SARGE: Hey Buddy when our little friend and cohort Forest Girl gets hired by Freud we will have lots of Freud blades to use plus her signed posters, I bet she will have us as her special product testers also.. <G>....
ToolDoc
Hey F_G; Watch the walnut; these guys are trying to get you to look the other way while they do some "borrowing"
Dave in Pa.
Dave
Did you study wire-tap in basic or advanced. Grin<> You may have ruined weeks of planning for Doc and I. Better head back to the shop b-4 Jamie gets your post. Much safer there. ha..
Have a good week-end..
sarge..jt
You guys better look out! I'm half-way through a Dean Koontz book wherein the plot involves some serious dark-side voodoo. Soon, you'll no longer be safe anywhere! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie: When we are all on a all expenses paid Freud Company buisness trip discussing new products and tool testing you wont want to Voodoo us then...<G> soo keep working on Charles and have him Fax us all contracts, I wont need any salary just have him send me a New Delta uni-saw and a Delta 8 inch jointer for testing purposes..LOL and a truck load of wood diffrent species to test..
ToolDoc
Jamie
Came up for a coffee break. Koontz, opps...headed right back and lock the doors. Ha.
BTW, read your post to CM. You might want to clarify with him what the smearing is. I'm guessing you're reffering to teflon on the stock? If that is the case, some will rub off on other than a perfect set-up. I run a new blade through some scrap stock just for that. Keep in mind if this is what you're refering too, you will not get the red from the other blade as it doesn't have teflon (assuming it doesn't). That doesn't mean that it doesn't rub the stock. You just have no evidence.
Was it red smearing or actual scorch. If you got burn marks that's a totally different story. With a new blade if I get burning stock, I go back and check set-up. Might try varying the feed rate as this is important. If the feed is too high or low and the tooth count is not proper for the particlar job, you can get burn also. Just some thoughts as to what you can check b-4 CM gets back with you on a possible solution.
Then again with that voodoo stuff, he might be finding a place to hide. grin<> ha....
Have a good evening as I bolt the doors and hang up the garlic, etc.
sarge..jt
Sarge, nope, this is the non-coated version of that blade. I checked my set-up, and switched blades (as mentioned above) and tried again. Since that wood obviously had some internal tension, I'm not blaming the blade. Have to work some different pieces of wood with it to get a feel for how it performs.
You guys have at least 50 more pages before you have to worry too much about my voodoo abilities, and I only read about 10 pages per night, so you're safe for the time being. Gives you time to straighten up your act, LOL! No more plotting for walnut, and no more comments about pin-ups (Doc).
In this book, the bad guy takes pictures of his intended victims to use in casting his spells. Remember, now, I'm in possession of some case-hardened wood, all I have to do is find a pic on Knots somewhere with your lumber rack in the background, and Z-A-P, it's all over! Tee hee. Naaaahhhh, I wouldn't do that. You my friend.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie: But you can use the Freud Blades to Hide the Good Parts on the pin up poster..<G> oo ok Ill stop razzing ya about being a pin up model althou I thought it was a Darn good idea,cause your prettier than those dippy Delta Gals, but anyways Im not scared about the VooDoo just that you will tell my wife..Now that IM scared of..LOL Dont forget to keep us in mind for the tool tester jobsand if Charles/Freud doesnt want to spring for the uni-saw & jointer ,Ill settle for a Jet or Grizzly instead...
Chief of tool Testing & trouble Department-> ToolDoc
Jamie
On vacation again and very busy in the shop. At least that's where I'm going to say I am. He.. I'm not pin-pointing my exact location to a voodoo woman. grin<>
My wife reads Gresham and Cornwell a lot. Loves the psychological thrillers. Not to much into the horror.
I was going to add to post last nite about the splitter. In that wet wood the stock will come back together quickly. Even with a splitter. When I run longer stock I shut the saw down and wait for the blade to stop. Walk to the back and insert a wedge I keep in a wedge bucket on the rear. When I see the stock closing again, repeat. Slows thing down, but if your not production, much safer. I rarely get a burn as I measure both front and rear of fence to blade. The only time I ever got a kick-back I was distracted and set the rear of fence closer to blade than the front. I never trust the scale on the fence. It just gets me close.
BTW, I'm using the Freud 24 tooth TK rip blade exclusively on ripping with the short fence (Slainte inspired) and it is an excellent, smooth cut. Combo (50 tooth) is strickly decicated to MDF and construction grade lumber. Should have done it years ago.
Have a good evening voodoo woman...just kiddin'
sarge..jt
> ....the plot involves some serious dark-side voodoo.
Now *I'm* confused .... Do we have a literary thread in the cafe?
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
DENNIS: SARGE & myself will be hiding out for awhile cause our little buddy Jamie has transformed into a VooDoo Woman,why?? we dont know must be one of them there Girl thingies.. soo just a word to the wise you better lay low too cause that Dave fellow squealed to her about the Great Walnut capper..<G>
ToolDoc
Hey Fellas, if F_G stays distracted long enough looking for you I will have a golden opportunity to flitch some walnut. Keep up the good work fellas.
Dave in Pa.
DAVE: YOU RAT,I knew there was something I liked about you<G>.. if you get the walnut before we do your off our xmas card list LOL.. hehehe wait til our little Jamie does her VooDooo on you,I dont want to even think of what shes going to turn you into HAHA...
Take care,and good luck,cause your going to need it..
ToolDoc
There's not to much she can do, I am already a troll.
Dave in Pa.
DAVE: LOL.. Your too much <G>..... Now back to hiding.......
ToolDoc
I always reserve the right to chat in and/or hijack my own thread, LOL! Actually, I hadn't expected that comment to have such long-lived repercussions. Also, I have my own selfish reason for having the Grip-Tite discussion in its own thread -- then I can print it out much more easily, and I don't have to wade through the other thread picking this and that out of it.
I went out and checked my splitter arrangement this morning. It may have been a bit off and skewing the stock some. I'm having problems today with our "moderate" air pollution, so don't know how much power tooling I'll be doing. Gotta be able to focus my eyes, which isn't happening at the moment.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Better head back to the shop b-4 Jamie gets your post. Much safer there. ha..
Dummies, Thats the first palce she will look. Hide in the garden, kitchen or the sewing room( a new hobby guys) before she spots you. The first palce she will look is in the shop. As for the voodoo thing, F_G isn't kidding. I was 6' 10" tall when I first came here but I am now 5' 1" tall because of her voodoo magic. Don't let that Koontz thing catch you off guard. it did me.
Dave in Pa.
;-) Practice makes perfect!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Dave
That's just where I said I was going. he... Will not pin-point my exact location as stated in post to Doc. Yep, best be cautious with voodoo women. I learned a long time ago. ha....
Take care jar-head and shout if in need..
sarge..jt
Doc
Read the next post. I think Dave is on to our plan.. Seems we have a security leak somehow. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
SARGE: I knew we couldnt trust that darn Dave guy you know how those Penna. guys are..LOL.. oh well I hope she keeps us as product testers and new product suggesters.. Boy IM working on some duzzie ideas for new tools for them,Ill present them at our first product testers meeting that Jamie,Dennis ,myself and you hold in some tropical island resort type meeting place..<G>
ToolDoc
Doc
I'm headin' to the shop. You gonna get us in big trouble. We stay in trouble and it's getting deeper. Ha... I guess that job would be great, though. Beats dusting those knick-knacks and home furnishing as in the other thread.
Then again, if we don't get the job; we can just tell everyone that we didn't get it cause we're over-qualified!! ha..ha.. Yeah, don't we wish...
Have a good one , Doc..
sarge..jt
SARGE: NAWWW were not in trouble<G> Jamie loves us cause were Harmless and she knows Im only bustin her, but ya know I am starting to get strange feelings, could it be naw VooDoo hmmm...
Chief tool tester & Head of Trouble Department>>> ToolDoc
Doc
You better be extremely careful with voodoo women. I used to hang around the bayou a lot and you don't want to mess with them. Very mysterious and un-predictable.
Come to think of it, that sounds like my idea of a prefect woman. grin<>?..
On vacation this week and got a zillion things working in the shop. Going tomorrow to look at a General International jointer. Have good eveening..
sarge..jt
SARGE: IM going to lay Low for awhile too,til this all settles and FG forgets about that VooDoo stuff,hmmm wonder if she has dolls that she sticks pins into?? I have never been in the Bayou,been to Mardi Grai and gave out a ton of beads to the Busty Babes there hmm does that count?? <G>
EX HEAD Trouble maker(I reformed) LOL.... ToolDoc
OK, where's the Excedrin -- I'm definitely getting a headache! "General Purpose" and "Combination" have technical meanings. Ouch. OK, so my new blade might not be that great on plywood.
Sad to say, today when I ripped some 5/8" oak with the LU84 (non-coated version), it didn't do real great. Had burning (actually looked more like "smearing") all along the piece that was between the blade and the fence, and a little on the narrower fall-off piece. I swtiched back to my Excaliber (aaach! Stop laughing) and while the cut wasn't as smooth, it didn't burn either. **---->Note: The oak turned out to not have been dried very well, though, because the ripped-off pieces (~1-1/4" wide) bowed to varying degrees after they came off the main body (This stuff is 3-1/2" x 5/8" backsplash from the local builders' supply/lumber store).
I'm reserving judgement on the LU84 until a work a little more with it.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/2/2002 10:53:14 PM ET by forest_girl
I hope I didn't complicate the issue with the terminology. The combination blade is named for the grind which is a combination of ATB and flat top. Until recently it was an excellent plywood blade and still is on a lot of sheet goods. It's the super-thin veneered oaks like what you find in the home centers that are the most difficult to cut. I give Forrest credit for elevating the general purpose blade to the status it now has. Traditionally, a general purpose blade was only good at most everything. Today people expect a 40 tooth blade to give excellent results in every cut.
I hope the problem you experienced with the LU84 was caused by the wood and not the blade. When trouble shooting a rip that is burned primarily on one side the first thing I ask is if a splitter was used. Next thing is to check the fence alignment. I'm anxious to hear further results.
As to the rest of you potential tool tester/developers: As soon as I get my Unisaw and jointer to use I'll let you know so you can be ready for yours. And I'm not touching the pin-up issue.
Charles M
Freud, Inc.
Charles: ok we can wait for our Uni-saw & Delta J20 jointer,gives me more time to think of more great tool ideas.. and I might add your very Smart on not saying anything about FG and the pin up issue<G> cause shes on that VooDoo kick LOL...
Chief Tool Tester& Head of trouble Department.>> ToolDoc
Dave, Sears does not carry the line of which I speak, at least not over here. These blades are from the LU series, which is a cut above the Diablo contractors line you see in the big retail stores. You can order pretty much the full line of Freud blades from Ballew Saw & Tools http://www.ballewtools.com
I'd recommend that you get a Freud catalog to see the specs on all of their saw blades. They make, I think, 3 different lines. http://www.freudtools.com/index2.html
If there's a WWing show coming your way, the prices at the show are quite good.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yes Sears does in fact care the Freud LU blades, at least they care them in Vancouver, WA I got a LU72 24 tooth FTG there a couple of weeks ago.
Garth
Well, your Sears is smarter than my Sears! Checked it out a couple weeks ago, and only found the Diablo's there. You are lucky person!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Dave
Try http://www.highlandhardware.com here in Atlanta. There toll-free is on the site. Call and they will send a catalog or you can order on-line. They have catered to strickly WW since the 70's. Not much they don't have, period.. Good luck!
sarge..jt
Thanks Sarge, I think that was the name I was looking for.
Dave in Pa.
I deal with Eastside SAw on BelRed road over here in the woodworking wasteland of Bellevue. I've not had a circular saw sharpened there yet, though. Mostly I've been buying band saw blades and cabinet saws from them. (hehehe) But anyone who's anyone that's working on the east side goes there for sharpening. They've got techs who can flatten blades, they're certified Amana band saw blade welders (whatever that means) and they've got all the latest bells&whistles type of machinery for sharpening most anything.
Never used Emerald Tools. Going to Seattle is like a major excrusion for me any more. I'm really concerned about what my options will be once we re-locate up north to the Mt. Vernon area. I know they've got good service for chain saw stuff but for woodworking machinery, dunno.
[email protected]
Dennis ... As I mentioned in the post to Forest Girl, there is a sharpening place in Mount Vernon that I heard about a few years back, but don't remember the name. When you locate to that area, you might try the yellow pages. From what I remember they were top notch. Hope this helps. Rod Torgeson in Appleton, WA
Thanks for the tip, Rod. I'll be lookin' 'em up!
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
In my experience, Freud's thin kerf rip blade will outperform their combo blade ripping and especially cross-cutting with smoother cuts and less chipout.
silver
Silver, I got the blade described above specifically for cross-cutting. It's a beaut. A rip blade is in my "future" budget, needed for the time-being to get a nice sharp combo blade on the saw. Did I mis-read, or did you say you use your TK rip blade for cross-cutting? What type of stock? I can see it working if it's real thick stock, but otherwise seems odd.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
We've used both the Freud combo and rip blades at the college. These blades need to be versatile.
It sounds odd but the tk rip blade outperforms the combo on everything from crosscutting 3/4" birch plywood to melamine in a pinch.
The point I was trying to make is that the tk rip blade is all around more versatile ripping and crosscutting IMHO.
have fun,
silver
Forest Girl ... I have three (maybe more) of the Freud blades. I have the 10" combination blade that I use on my power miter saw (50 tooth) and have used it for several years. Bought it at Rockler before they changed the name on Stone way in Seattle. I am very happy with it. I also have the 10" Pro crosscut (60 tooth) that I use on my RAS and use it for crosscutting and am very happy with the results. I also have a 9" combination (40 tooth) that I use on my older table saw, am very happy with it. All three of these blades have cut a lot of wood and have never been sharpened and they still cut fine. I think you will be happy with your purchase. For sharpening service, I believe Woodcraft in south Seattle has a sharpening service. I have not used them for that service. There is a place in Mount Vernon that I heard does an excellent job of sharpening but don't remember the name. Hope this helps.
Rod Torgeson in Appleton, WA
I can't believe you would use anything but a Forrest blade with a name like "forest girl". If you have never used one try it, you'll like it. If you don't they will buy it back. I didn't think a blade could make such a difference. I have no financial interest in their company, I'm just a satisfied customer.
Good Luck Count Your Blessings and You Fingers often
les
For those in the Puget Sound Area, most woodworking shops and lumber suppliers have a pick-up, and return arrangement with a couple of sharpening services in the area. FG, I have no knowledge of Emerald Tools or such but I drop my tools with Puget Sound Woodworking Center in Everett and American Saw picks them up and returns them the next week.
I have had both Eastside and American Saw sharpen my blades and while I have no quantitative data the sharpening by American saw seems to be better than what I got from Eastside. Just my personal experience.
Lomax
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