Replies

1. 
   dherzig | Jul 30, 2007 01:18am | #1

   I really prefer the band saw as being safer. I have had the experience with my table saw in similar situations where the wood sprung and seized the blade. Luckily it threw the safety switch rather than the wood. A couple of roller supports are helpful with lumber that long.

2. 
   JeffHeath | Jul 30, 2007 04:24am | #2

   Determine the drift on your bandsaw, and set your fence to the proper distance as desired.  You'll waste alot less wood on the bandsaw, as long as it's tuned and cutting straight.

   If you need help with the drift issue, let me know. 

   Jeff

1. 
   bmyyou | Jul 30, 2007 05:03am | #3

   My bandsaw never seems to cut true, so I could use some help with compensating for drift.

   Thanks,

   Brian

1. 
   JeffHeath | Jul 30, 2007 06:33am | #5

   Take a scrap board with a straight and true edge.  Draw a line 1/2" (or whatever your desired thickness is) running parallel to your straight edge.  Very carefully, saw to the line with your bandsaw.  When you're halfway through the board, stop, and set the fence parallel to the board.  This is now set for the drift of your saw.  Bandsaw away.

   Jeff

2. 
   PeteBradley | Aug 01, 2007 05:02am | #16

   A lot of times, uneven resaws in long boards are due to the work not traveling tight to the fence rather than drift. A featherboard or roller arrangement can help. I'm experimenting with a magnetic featherboard right now that has some potential also since it's very quick to set up.Pete

1. 
   brad805 | Aug 01, 2007 07:20pm | #17

   I seem to find the most drift when I start feeding the stock too fast.  Getting the feed rate right was the trickest when i started re-sawing veneer sheets.

3. 
   bladeburner | Aug 02, 2007 05:35pm | #19

   I've never had any luck with BS fences, so I use a pivot block. Doesn't have to be fancy, but here's what I use from one of my mags. Used to use a clamped 2X4.

   And I keep a couple of carpenters shims in my hip pocket for long resaws to keep the kerf from closing. Just push 'em in as you go along.

   Edited 8/2/2007 10:35 am ET by bladeburner

   Edited 8/2/2007 10:37 am ET by bladeburner

   
3. 
   Diz | Jul 30, 2007 05:06am | #4

   I use a good quality 7 1/4 blade on my tablesaw - not much more kerf than a bandsaw.  For widths you mentioned, cutting halfway through from each edge should be a piece of cake.  With just a 12" bandsaw, I think the tablesaw is a better option.  Even if boards are wider, cutting full depth kerf in each edge and then finishing cut on bandsaw should be easiest.

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jul 30, 2007 03:29pm | #6

   The major area of concern with your method Diz is the increased likelihood that you'll experience kickback. By definition, to do the job as you describe means removing the splitter and any overhead guard you have--  or the riving knife and crown guard if you're using a European style machine.

   It doesn't take much stress release in the wood for the material to pinch on the saw blade, and wood pinching on the saw blade is a primary cause of kickback. Severely stressed wood, through case hardening for example, can bind on the saw blade very powerfully, and in less time than the blink of an eye-- and many times quicker than the operator can react. Even putting the wood through the fork or prong test prior to resawing using your method doesn't always guarantee a piece of wood is stess free throughout its length, width and thickness.

   I suppose, as a safety concsious woodworker I should also mention that an operator using a saw in the manner you describe leaves themselves in danger of contacting the unguarded and spinning blade-- a generally agreed unsafe operating method. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   Diz | Jul 31, 2007 05:35am | #13

   I agree with you in theory.   However, there are several factors mitigating potential risk in this instance.  I think the issue of what I will call relative mass comes into play.  bmyyou specified long boards, which equates into relatively large mass and I specified a small blade, relatively small mass.  In addition, the tooth is probably something like <3/32" which produces a very small "bite".  It is my observation that small blades produce relatively less uncontrollable kickback than larger blades w/ a larger tooth.  ( Sort of like firing a .38 caliber bullet with a .22 caliber shell?)  And, I'm not saying that it is risk free and I never stand directly behind a rip cut.

    

   My technique would be to cut maybe 1" deep on each side and work up to the center in small increments.  If you cut through in the last pass, the blade is always buried in the width of the board and because of the small diameter, the blade would be lower than the fence as well.  Proper push stick/shoe would provide an adequate margin of separation.  By cutting in increments you can identify and deal with potential pinching.  Perhaps even better would be to leave up to about 1" uncut in center and finish cut with a handsaw, or a bandsaw. And yes, this technique would leave a surface which would have to be cleaned up w/ a planer, belt sander or hand plane, but probably not much more than a bandsaw cut.

    

   I have resawn with both and generally use the bandsaw as well.  But, with proper respect and technique, the tablesaw is a viable option with the conditions given in bmyyou's post.

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jul 31, 2007 11:30am | #15

   "I agree with you in theory."

   It's the technique you described where the end results can be disasterous, and that's what I was warning inexperienced table saw operatives to be aware of. The theory is borne out by what does happen from time to time in practice, ie, kickback and injury. Your described method warrants extreme caution, and you didn't provide the cautionary note so I did it for you. 

   From your response it's evident that you do experience lifting of the wood, the precursor to kickback, where you said, "It is my observation that small blades produce relatively less uncontrollable kickback than larger blades w/ a larger tooth." So you're aware of the danger, it's happened to you, the theory is borne out in practice, and the question must therefore be, at what point does the 'controllable' lifting of the wood you described become uncontrollable? Slainte.

   Richard Jones Furniture

   Edited 7/31/2007 6:00 am by SgianDubh

1. 
   Diz | Aug 03, 2007 04:35am | #20

   As the publications all say " If you're uncomfortable with an operation, don't do it."  In this situation, I would not be at all uncomfortable with resawing regular lumber on TS.  I would be more concerned with a 10" board rather than a 10' board specified here.  Given this length, I think the larger table on the TS compared to a 12" bandsaw is an advantage.  By the time you rig up infeed & outfeed supports for bandsaw, I could have the 3/8" boards on the workbench.  A board this length permits both hands on the board at least 3' or more from the blade and , for me, easily controllable.  In addition I would recommend and use a long push shoe, rather than a push stick, for the final few feet of the cut.  Another factor is being tuned to feedback from the board you're cutting.  If I experienced binding and/or a tendency to kickback due to reaction wood after the first few feet I would probably pitch it and question the suitability of that board to include in a project. 

   My first choice in this instance would be the TS with a brand name 24 - 36 tooth 7 1/4 finishing blade - avoiding the contractor style blades which may have more aggressive hook angle.  Unless you have used this type blade on a TS you may not appreciate the difference it can make for this operation. 

   Finally, a no less prestigious publication than WOOD magazine seems to regularly recommend this technique to its readers ( See # 159, 160 for instance). 

   That's my story and I'm stickin to it.

    

2. 
   SgianDubh | Aug 03, 2007 11:41am | #23

   Fair enough Diz, but you'll never get me using your approach for resawing. If I'm going to deep rip I'll use one of two methods. The bandsaw is often the first choice as it's very safe if done properly, ie, the correct type of blade that's sharp, and a good fence, often a single point fence, push sticks and, lastly, infeed and outfeed support for long work. 

   The second is a table rip saw with a blade at least 450 mm in diameter, and larger diameters are an even better choice. The riving knife and crown guard remain in place and the cut made in one pass.

   Any time I'm considering deep ripping I do the fork or prong test to find out if the wood is stressed. Any indication of stress means whatever machine choice is made the job will fail anyway due to board distortion after the rip, eg, cupping, bowing and winding.

   I suspect we're talking two different workshop practices. I work in Europe and I'd guess, because you cited the American magazine Wood, that you work in the US, so attitudes to machine woodworking techniques are poles apart.  Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

3. 
   Diz | Aug 04, 2007 05:32am | #24

   Perhaps the thing we both agree on is the most relevant lesson in this discussion.  You pretest a board to see if it will be suitable for use and I mentioned being attuned to feedback from the board during processing - and we both agree that if a board is giving trouble in initial milling, it will probably continue to give trouble throughout the building process.  Just because a board can be milled doesn't mean it should be milled.

   I'm not a pro but have produced a goodly amount of sawdust & shavings over a few decades and I've noticed I'm ever more mindful of selection & preparation of lumber for a project.  I was pleased to see your comment on this.

2. 
   Scrit | Aug 01, 2007 10:08pm | #18

   I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Richard on this. The technique you describe is potentially extremely hazardous and I for one would not normally attempt it - a kickback is a kickback regardless of whether or not the cut is 1/4in or 3in deep, the actual issue is more likely to be the power of the saw motor. In a shop where there is no bandsaw one practice to overcome excessive pinching behind the blade on timber which behaves this way is to periodically stop and knock small wedges into the kerf to keep it open. Not ideal, but it gets the job done. Of course it helps control the situation if you have a long enough run-off table behind the saw - long enough to support at least 2/3 of the length of the piece being sawn

   Scrit

1. 
   Diz | Aug 03, 2007 05:02am | #21

   Given the lengths of the materials specified in the original post, the risk of kickback resulting in some adverse effect would be low.  I would be more concerned with smaller pieces.  The biggest problems, I believe, come when trying to control a board with a push stick. In this instance you have enough wood to have a firm grip with two hands and still keep a respectable distance from the blade.

2. 
   bmyyou | Aug 03, 2007 06:55am | #22

   I am AMAZED and very pleased by the number of responses that I've received from this post; this forum is like having a woodworking coach in the shop.

   After much thought, I decided to fire up the 12" bandsaw with a Timberwolf blade, correct for drift as mentioned earlier and give it a go.  The woods are light and soft (doug fir, cedar, and basswood), so I was hopeful that the saw would cut without too much lean on the motor.  This turned out okay with minimal change in thicknesss - the key was to correct for the drift as suggested earlier.  I've noted that unfortunately I'm limited to about 41/2" widths even with these woods and the blade, so if I need to do serious resaws I'll have to upgrade to at least a 14" bandsaw.

   Sincere thanks for the feedback and tips - will keep these archived for when I need to resaw some denser stock.

4. 
   brad805 | Jul 30, 2007 11:18pm | #7

   I use my BS for re-sawing veneer and it works great once you get all the setup correct and practice on some test pieces.  Read the artice in FWW.  The author re-saws 1/8" veneer strips.  I wouldn't use the TS without jointing and planning the indexing surfaces first.  For one, very likely to get kickback and secondly the cut surface will not turn out smooth.

    

5. 
   mgumaer | Jul 30, 2007 11:46pm | #8

   Brian,

   I'm generally not too skidish but, after acquiring my bandsaw, I would never go back to a cabinet saw for the kind of work you are contemplating. To me, it feels infinitely safer on the bandsaw.

   Matt

6. 
   Buster2000 | Jul 31, 2007 01:50am | #9

   Brian,

   Bandsaw all the way.  I was resawing up some ash on the bandsaw not so long ago and about 2/3 the way down the board the board split in a most dramatic manner.  I've never been so happy that I used the bandsaw, had I used a table saw it would have pinched on the blade.  The bandsaw is the right tool for the job.

   As for drift, my first suggestion is to get a good resaw blade.  I use a 3tpi Timberwolf blade for the limited resawing I do.  It's a huge upgrade from the stock blades that come with the bandsaw (In fact throw the stock blade out).  With it I have not yet had to adjust for drift.

   Just looking at it, if you start with a true 1" board it would be very hard to actually get down to two 3/8" boards.  The bandsaw blade is thin but still has a certain thickness, as well you'll have to smooth the boards a little, and of course a slight wobble at any point would be disastrous.  As well my rough sawn 4/4 boards are often just that rough, and once I smooth out one side I would have very little wiggle room if any.  Also I've never seen a 12ft board completely straight....

   Finally, what do you need this length of wood for? 

1. 
   bmyyou | Jul 31, 2007 02:22am | #10

   Thanks for the feedback - I think I'm going to resaw with the bandsaw so wish me luck,

   I'm building a hollow wooden surfboard, and I need about 10 foot long planks of wood for the decking/top and bottom.  Light woods like basswood are available in my area, but I could get more for my dollar if I could resaw them to about 3/8 inches and plane them down to 1/4" and 5/16" required thickness.  I have a Timberwolf blade now but belive it to be either 6 or 7 tpi; will need a different blade but plan to give it a shot.  I have resawn some 7 foot cedar posts with it but not 10's or 12's.

    

1. 
   Buster2000 | Jul 31, 2007 02:38am | #11

   Very cool project.  Good luck with it, you'llhave to let us know how it turns out.

   The bandsaw was one of the best investments in my shop for the very reason you stated.  Much more economical.  My 'waste' cutoffs from my projects are much more usefull.

   Droping to 3tpi will help.  If the blade can not clear the material it clogs up, then you put more pressure... etc...

   If you could get an extra pair of hands things would probably go much smoother...

2. 
   woodhacker | Jul 31, 2007 04:39am | #12

   I'd suggest you get a "Wood Slicer" blade from Highland Hardware. It's a blade designed for just what you're doing. Cuts like a dream, is thinner so it results in finer kerf, and it's also a lot quieter than a conventional blade.

7. 
   philip | Jul 31, 2007 10:11am | #14

   Brian, you specified a "Cabinet" saw. This type of saw can't compete with the bandsaw for what you want to do,as others have explained.
   If you had a dedicated "Ripping saw" then it would convert your boards quickly, accurately and safely and I would tend to choose that for the job, except that there may be more material loss on the conversion.
   Diz's suggestion works, for sure, but there would be a minimum of three passes, probably more, and some head scratching as to how big a nib to leave for "finishing off" by hand saw or band saw. Not to mention some burn marks plus smoke noise and dust....The thought makes me feel dizzy.

   Philip Marcou