Replies

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jun 15, 2004 05:52am | #1

   You mention you do not have a planer, and I assume you do not have thickness sander (Performaxx type) either. Right?

   I have never even heard of the "Safe-T-Planer" you mention, but it would be great to hear from someone who has one and can tell us how well it works, etc. I am generally dubious about gismos that attach to the drill press to do something other than what it was intended for.

   I have not tried it myself, but the idea of the drum sander (on your drill press) and the vertical fence seems promising for your application. I would think you would want to cut the pieces twice as long as you need, so you can hang on to the end as the piece feeds itself through the mechanism (like an old fashion washing machine with rollers). No doubt the trick is to maintain a steady feed rate, so the drum doesn't dish out lthe strip in one spot (or shoot through the contraption like a missle).

   Maybe Rob Millard will find this thread and enlighten us all.

   What is it you are trying to inlay? How critical is uniform thinkness?

1. 
   harry11733 | Jun 15, 2004 06:02am | #2

   Sorry I misspoke (miswrote?). I don't have a thickness sander. I do have a planer but I think it too large and coarse for this application. I tend to agree on the drill press attachments but I am looking for a cheap option. The thickness and eveness of the veneer is critical since I want to be able to set the inlay pieces to be just flush with the surface.

   The safe-t-planer is shown here http://www.freemansupply.com/WagnerSafeTPlaner.htm

   It doesn't look that safe actually, which is why I leaning towards the sanding drum.

   Woodworker's supply copy here

   http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=24760&CARTID=200406147914203031--1

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jun 15, 2004 06:31am | #3

   Unless your planer is a piece of junk, I would at least try running the strips through atop a board serving as a bed.

   This is a tried and true technique, and others may have suggestions on how best to perform the operation.

   The few times I have done it, I affixed the strips to the bed board with double-sided tape (the stuff like masking tape, rather than carpet tape, which is too sticky). Then I glued a strip across the back of the bed board (no nails, and about 6" from the end) that was thinner than my work pieces. This contraption held the strips in place -- while I made very light passes with sharp blades.

   I think this will give you a much better shot at a uniform thickness than the drum sander on a drill press. But I'll be interested in what others have to say.

   EDIT: What kind of wood are you using for the inlays? If it's not a species that tends to plane well, maybe the drum sander is the preferable approach.

   Edited 6/14/2004 11:35 pm ET by nikkiwood

2. 
   MichaelPB | Jun 15, 2004 09:56pm | #7

   I use a drill press like a milling machine, I have a small X-Y table and do all sorts of complicated operations on it.  Works great.

   I had a wagner planer a while back and it did pretty good work I think.  I had a REALLy awful drill press and I think any issues I had in using the planer were more related to the drill press than the planer.  In addition, my knowledge of working with wood, watching grain direction etc. were pretty much non existant.

   I think for certain applications it would be a good tool and I could think of a couple of ways to make a jig that would plane thin stock with it.  However, since it would be cutting accross the grain, I think if time wasn't an issue, I would go with the drum sanding setup.

2. 
   RMillard | Jun 15, 2004 12:30pm | #4

   I have attached a photo of the way I thickness material for my inlays. I dislike jigs, so mine are always cobbled together affairs, as you can see. I made the drum on the lathe and cut a slot in it. I then wrap the sandpaper ( made from sanding belts) around it and hold it in place with a tight fitting strip of wood driven into the slot. I use the sanding drum bearing sold by Lee Valley. The “fence and table:” are just scraps, held in place with clamps. I adjust the thickness by hitting the fence with a mallet. This set up works well for material 2 ½ inches wide or less. Even with this jig, I still saw my material to close tolerances because the sander is fairly slow. The only thing to watch out for is you must keep your hand close to the drum , especially on very thin stock, or it will buckle. I use the surface planer for material 1/8 inch or thicker, except some wild grain satinwood, that tends to shatter when run through it. I’ve seen similar jigs for the lathe, which could handle wider material.

   Rob Millard

   
1. 
   harry11733 | Jun 15, 2004 04:14pm | #5

   Thanks for the photograph. I am only beginning to try this technique and it is very helpful to see how others get this done.

   I intend to use ebony as the wood in final piece but am using scraps of hard wood lying around the shop at the moment for practice.

3. 
   Crunk | Jun 15, 2004 07:50pm | #6

   Well.... years ago before electric woodworking they had to have a technique.  I've heard of a few procedures that can be used.  The simplest is to pin the inlay using two awls at either end and scrape the inlay (you can use a few brads if you want, just nail the think to your bench).  Obviously, you trim the ends, a scant quarter inch, when done.  Leave the inlay slightly over thickness, glue it in the groove, scrape the inlay until it is even with, or very slighly proud, of the surface of the project.

   To work larger sections, just tack it down with very small brads and scrape or plane, or use a scraper plane.  :-)

   I don't think the non-electric woodworker ever brought the inlays to final thickness until they were glued down, opting to let the surrounding surface of the project tell them when he had hit the proper thickness.  Inlay grooves were worked with hand tools and had slight variations in depth, but the stringing was brought level with handtools nevertheless.

   One also needs a deft touch with the scraper. 

   This non-mechanized procedure might not suit your fancy, but it will work and you don't have to build any jigs. 

   
   
   

   
   

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   Edited 6/18/2004 2:40 pm ET by BossCrunk

4. 
   mike4244 | Jun 15, 2004 11:06pm | #8

   Just sand the veneers by hand, I do this all the time.I tape the ends to a flat board and sand with a cork covered block. I usually start with 100 grit and work up to 180. I make chess boards and inlays for borders, rarely takes more than 30 minutes to sand these veneers smooth. Final thickness is achieved after veneers are glued, then I generally use a card scraper and 220 paper to finish up.I would not use a planer even with a shooter board, you will splinter up many veneers. You could just use the card scraper, sometimes I do depending on the veneer itself.The drill press with the sanding drum may work, it would have to be a continous pass without stopping to prevent snipe.The veneer would pass between the fence and the drum, taking off less than a 1/64" at a time.This method works better with thicker boards, try it , might work.

   mike

5. 
   johnhardy | Jun 16, 2004 10:27am | #9

   I've done this two ways ... using a planer with a bed (mentioned in another post) and using a Performax 16/32 thickness sander.

   Using a planer with thin woods can have drastic problems with the wood exploding if the grain goes the wrong way. I've had this happen with 1/4" walnut that had "wavy" grain.

   Using the sander gives great results and you can sand it down (using another piece of wood as a sled) to a thickness that can almost perfectly match the depth of the "dado" in which the veneer is inserted. I would think the other "MacGyver" type methods mentioned (using a drill press, etc.) would give inconsistent results.

   John

1. 
   RMillard | Jun 16, 2004 02:08pm | #10

   John,

   While I'm sure that the dedicated thickness sander would be preferable to the drill press, this has more to do with capacity and speed, not consistency . I have attached two photos, one shows a Baltimore sideboard I made, and the other is a photo of the inlay banding I'm making in the photo I attached previously. This banding is only about 7/64" wide, and calls for a fair amount of consistency , as did the inlays on the sideboard. These two are only a small sample of the dozens of inlays I've made using the drill press to thickness the basic materials.

   Rob "MacGyver" Millard

   
1. 
   johnhardy | Jun 16, 2004 05:11pm | #11

   First, beautiful work. It sounds like you not only thickness sand your veneer on the drill press but make it from scratch as well. Kudos.

   However, if you've got a machine like the Performax, you could thickness sand the materials to within several thousandths of each other quickly and painlessly. And in seconds compared to 100s of times that long using the drill press.

   While the Performax is underpowered for real sanding work, it shines in doing this type of work and does it extremely fast.

   John

2. 
   BG | Jun 16, 2004 05:41pm | #12

   Rob,

   After seeing your post last night I ran down stairs and put that left over piece of cherry from the candel stand table on the lathe and, after turning, applied a piece of 100 grit sandpaper from the belt sander to the turning with 3M spray glue.  I then turned an eleven inch long piece of stock with the intention of applying 3 strips of sandpaper.

   I can use either one of these in my drill press, however, I'm wondering why not construct an adjustable (height wise)base that would straddle the lathe base and you could feed the stock between the base and the spinning sanding cylinder? 

6. 
   migraine | Jun 16, 2004 05:57pm | #13

   If you have a vacuum table to hold the pieces down, why not use a router with a 1/4-1/2" straight bit .  Take a few pieces of 1/2X1/2x6" wood and hot melt then to the base of you router like a pair of skis(plural for ski?).  When you done, spray a little denatured alcohol on the base, wait a few minutes and they usually pop right off.  Or, just make a larger base plate from plywood and permanantly attach the skis

   I have used this method for routing out inlays in tops and even Corian for many years.  If your care ful, you get a practically flush finish that needs alittle sanding or a few passes from a good cabinet scraper

7. 
   nikkiwood | Jun 17, 2004 04:04am | #14

   After looking at the pieces posted by Rob Millard, I would say forget all the other advice (including mine), and get that drum sander on the drill press to work for you.

   Rob ---

   That is gorgeous inlay work; why don't you post one of your pieces in the Gallery, so we can ask all sorts of questions about how you do it?

   EDIT: OR HAVE YOU ALREADY DISCUSSED YOUR INLAY TECHINIQUES ON SOME OTHER THREAD?

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/16/2004 9:06 pm ET by nikkiwood

1. 
   bell | Jun 17, 2004 04:59am | #15

   The sanding drum used in the same manner as you would in resawing only now you are sanding and you can get quite good results,just keep a slow steady pace and keep a good grip on the piece you are working.There was one woodworker who used sanding disc on a table saw and claimed excellent results.Work with what you are most comfortable with and do it safely. Good luck.

2. 
   Crunk | Jun 17, 2004 11:00pm | #16

   Check Rob out on the Society of American Period Furniturmakers website.

   Like most processes in woodworking, making and prepping inlays is susceptible to a mechanized solution or a hand tool solution.  Rob is a professional furnituremaker specializing in building Federal reproductions.  As you probably know, this is a style characterized by the extensive use of inlays.  I would imagine that Rob made an economic decision as to how to prepare his inlays while at the same time understanding that these procedures are not authentic to the period. 

   Like the surfaces of any handmade piece of furniture, hand-prepared inlays exhibit variability owing to the hand planes, hand saws, and scrapers used to make and prepare them for installation.  These markings are highly valued on period antiques, but probably less so on reproduction work, hence the relatively easy economic decision that a lot of professionals have to make. 

1. 
   RMillard | Jun 18, 2004 03:39am | #17

   While I use power tools to facilitate some of the work in preparing material and inlaying, in the end every surface is hand planed or scraped, so the final result is indistinguishable from the originals. Period cabinetmakers used aids such as scraping tools that were adjustable to produce varying thickness of stringing or components for complex bandings. These tools produced strips of wood of very uniform thickness, probably varying no more than plus or minus .005" It is this variation, although seemingly inconsequential will as you noted make the difference between, just a good reproduction and an outstanding one. The drill press gizmo does the same thing only a little faster. I have attached a macro photo of a 3/8" wide banding I made that shows this desirable variation. At first glance it seems very consistent , but a close look will show the obvious signs of hand work, just like the originals.

   Rob Millard

   Edited 6/17/2004 8:46 pm ET by RMillard

   
1. 
   harry11733 | Jun 18, 2004 05:44pm | #18

   I just want to thank everyone for their responses. It was helpful to hear a range of opinions. I would like to suggest that Rob Millard be asked to write an article on inlay techniques for Fine Woodworking. There are several other tricks that he uses that are of considerable general interest. For example, using mordants to selectively stain mahogany after applying the inlays is a particularly useful procedure. I personally love the craftsmanship that his photographs show. Both the furniture and the photographs are close to perfect. Although my personal taste in furniture is for contemporary styles, inlays signify hand detailing in a similar way to handcut dovetail joints and can be used effectively with nearly any style of custom furniture. A good article on hand work inlays would be of broad interest to a lot of people.

2. 
   Crunk | Jun 18, 2004 09:39pm | #19

   Period cabinet makers, in larger cities at least, often bought their stringing from shops that specialized in making it.  The ability to produce stringing to exact thicknesses was more important to the maker of the stringing because of economics.  The end user would bring the stringing level with the surrounding surface no matter if the stringing itself started out at a very uniform, or not so very uniform, thickness.  In other words, the uniformity of thickness of the stringing did not have a lot to do with what it looked like once it was installed as you point out.  Otherwise, the implication is that the user of the stringing simply installed it as is.  Surely, this was not the case.  If the stringing was a little thick for the groove worked, then I'm quite sure it was scraped or planed down after being glued down (or the groove worked a little deeper).  If the end user worked too deep a groove, I would imagine he would spec thicker stringing, or make it slightly thicker than normal if he made his own, or scrape/plane the surrounding surface a little, or something along those lines.

   If your machined, then hand planed and scraped surfaces are indistinguishable from 18th C. pieces then I salute you.  That's quite a feat.  Most modern woodworkers have a misguided notion about the level of perfection achieved on old pieces and prep. their surfaces far beyond what was done in the 18th C.  It's a doubly hard achievement with machine worked surfaces followed by hand planes.  Mere removal of machine tool marks, as you well know, does not imply an accurate period surface.  I've heard conservators and collectors claim that it's in the initial flattening of stock with hand tools vs. machines that accounts for the tell-tale differences they say they can identify.  It makes some sense to me, but I'm not sure that somebody hell-bent on a period surface couldn't make a machine prepared piece look thoroughly hand prepared.  I just wonder if building the piece with all hand tools wouldn't be easier in the first place.

   On my best day in the shop, I probably never have flattened stock with handplanes to quite the degree of uniformity that I could have using a well tuned power jointer and planer.  Beyond the very slight scallops left by a barely radiused plane iron , I always have some small but perceptible undulations, though not those caused by a scrubber either.  Maybe I'm not as thorough as I should be, but I've seen the same kinds of 'perfect imperfections' (not my term) on expensive antiques.  This is probably my ineptness in judging how much stock to start with to arrive at 'smooth' and proper thickness at the same time which is pretty much what one has to do when using only hand tools.  I hate to start with way overthick stock in an attempt to arrive at machine shop perfection of my surfaces.  I suppose this is doable if somebody wants to plane, and plane, and plane, but I'm fairly convinced the professional furnitumakers of old didn't do this either.  Or maybe they did. 

   Edited 6/18/2004 2:54 pm ET by BossCrunk