Reshaping a Bevel: Grinder or Belt?
Hi everyone,
I am currently using 1000x & 8000x waterstones to sharpen planes blades, chisels and kitchen knives. I’m using the Veritas MkII guide. This is a great system. Works easy, fast and I have excellent keeness.
Recently, I bought 2 extra plane blades. I’d like to put different pitch angles on my low angle jack. This will require reshaping the bevel from 25º to 38º and 50º. I also have some junky Stanley chisels that hold an edge for about 5 passes. These chip alot and need grinding or sanding before honing.
My first inclination was to buy a grinder (which one 6″ or 8″?) but I wondered if I could do this with a belt sander. The belt sander would make sharpening my kitchen knives much faster. I could get both but I’m getting overwhelmed with too many tools and techniques so I’d like to keep things as simple as possible.
Then there’s the need to sharpen jointer and planer blades. For that I’ve ordered the Veritas Jointer Blade sharpener system.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Goat
Replies
I've never been a fan of the belt sander for shaping chisel or plane bevels. I use an 8" grinding wheel...the "soft" white stone made by Norton. Get a dressing wheel too. One thing that will help when going from a flat to a steeper bevel is to first flatten the very tip. Push the iron straight into the wheel and form a small blunt end. This will result in more metal at the end where the heat will accumulate. If you don't do this, you will always have a sharp tip and sooner or later you will overheat the steel. Keep a light touch on the wheel, have a quench bucket right there, and use it often. Keep your fingers close to the end, feel the heat. Quench before it's too late. If the wheel gets loaded, use the dresser.
I like the hollow grind that a wheel gives....makes honing easier.
Did I say to quench the metal BEFORE it's too late?
Goat,
The right thing is a bench grinder as Sapwood has said. An 8" is always better.You should dress the correct wheel (white or pink)before it is glazed/loaded-often-with a diamond tool-helps to cut fast and reduces heat build-up.
A belt sander is a very poor choice-because the sfm speed is way below what is required for coated abrasives to grind efficiently, and you will get overheat through pushing too hard.
BUT, a belt GRINDER is the best and most efficient. These work in the range of 4000 to 6000 sfm and are about 5 times as efficient as stones.However these are not normally known by the average woodworker.
I use an 8" wheel for my plane blades and hand chisels. But, I use a 2" belt sander (220 grit) for my lathe scraper chisels. With the latter, your after speed, not precision.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
I vote for the grinder, but in the 6" dia. Garret Hack was here several years ago to teach a class on sharpening the hand plane and he recomended the 6" over the 8". I don't remembe why, but it sure made sense at the time. If you can get a copy of Ian Irby's book " Sharpening With Water Stones" check out how he rigged a tool rest up from a piece of round bar stock. Plus check out the holders for both chisels and and plane irons-cool. I have both a commercial and home made slow speed grinder. I use a surplus motor (1725 RPM) and an arbor which I bought from Grainger, with a white wheel. I use both 60 and 120 grit wheels as this is what I have. If your Stanley chisels are chipping, then it is possible that they are too brittle and need to be annealed. I used to teach a sharpening class and this is one thing I always taught, so when some one blued a chisel, they could retemper and anneal it.
I agree with the hollow grind you get with a wheel; however, a belt grinder is great for roughing things out. I use a belt grinder often sharpening tool bits for my metal lathe when the hollow grind is not necessary for relief.
Grits
One thing I don't understand is the use of the terms grinder and sharpen in the same sentence. I associate sharpening with stones, as in honing. I think of the grinder as a means to rebevel a surface. I understand that turners use grinders to get a quick edge but for precision edges one must hone. Is this not true? Can a grinder produce the same edge as a stone? What about microbevels?
Goat,
A belt grinder, running at optimum speed, fitted with a 400 grit or finer metalcut belt, on a suitable contact wheel, will give a very sharp edge when the tool is held in a guide-it is a souped up Scarey sharp without all the b/s.Industrial belt grinders running wet sharpen scalpel blades and the like....
Can a grinder produce the same edge as as a stone-if you are referring to a bench grinder, the answer is yes , provided the correct wheel is used and the tool is accurately held in a guide.Razor blades were produced like that before the advent of coated abrasives.
Turners-what are they?;) Yes they are just using a smoother hand stone to refine the work of the bench grinder wheel- it is quicker than using an ultra fine wheel and risking overheat .
No doubt I am to be hung drawn and quartered for this but I am not a subscriber to most of the mythology attached to the processes of honing/sharpening and grinding.I just want the thing to be sharp in as little time and fuss as possible.Philip Marcou
"I am not a subscriber to most of the mythology attached to the processes of honing/sharpening and grinding.I just want the thing to be sharp in as little time and fuss as possible."Don't leave me hanging. What do YOU do for sharp?
What do I do for sharp?
As little as possible as quickly as possible as smartly as possible as and when required.Philip Marcou
I don't really get the mythology aspect at all, sharpening is a straightforward prospect. Who cares how you grind the bevel?
Coarse stone, belt sander, grinding wheel running this way or that, sandpaper on glass or marble or jointer bed? It doesn't matter. Just grind a bevel (or bezel).
Then hone with a fine stone, Arkansas or Japanese, Ceramic or Diamond or with a block of maple and some micron diamond paste or 2000 grit silicon carbide paper. That doesn't really matter either.
Now it's sharp... If you feel like it, strop on leather with green or red paste.
I use the sandpaper (Scary sharp) method.
2 bucks each for some marble tiles, a buck or so a sheet for sandpaper in various grits up to 2000, a free old wide leather belt and 5 bucks for a stick of Dico jewelers rouge most of which I will leave to my kids. For rough grinding I get some 80 grit stickit paper and put it down on my tablesaw.
The other finer grits last a long time. I sharpen regularly and I get a year or more out of each sheet. I've never replaced the 2000 grit one.
I do mirror polish the back of my blades, but only about 1/2-inch or so. Working up from 220 paper to 2000 paper, mirror polishing takes a minute or two. Best thing is I never ever have to flatten a stone again!
People who think the method is fussy or inaccurate either haven't given it a fair trial or are trying to justify their 100 dollar stones or their 500 dollar tormeks, IMO.
But there are many ways to sharp.
David C
Who cares how you grind the bevel?
One benefit to a Tormek or other grinder is that you get a hollow bevel. Then when you jump to your sandpaper or stones, instead of having to smooth the entire bevel surface, you only smooth a small portion of the bevel. It just makes honing faster. I agree with you, that the wood doesn't care how you get your sharp edge -- but some of these tools can make getting there, and staying there, faster.
Er (hesitant to call you Father-brings on memories of Jesuit priests at the school I went to) John,I don't think that a hollow grind is of any benefit at all-in fact just the opposite-but that is another discussion. Suffice to say that you don't find this on new factory made or custom supplied plane blades.
...instead of having to smooth the entire bevel surface"-if one for example grinds a bevel at 25* and sharpens at 30* then initially the honing bevel will be very thin and take little time. Subsequent honings will take progressively longer till it becomes counter-productive not to re-grind to 25*.If you hollow grind at say 25* and then "jump" to stones and continue at 25* it will be a short time before you reach the stage of "smoothing the entire surface"....
I am beginning to see now why people talk of stones with dips in them and of "wearing " plane irons down to the screw hole.Philip Marcou
I'm really new to this but here's my 2 cents worth. On my chisels I like to hone the entire bevel as it easier to "feel" it on the sand paper (I use the scary sharp method) and I now can almost free hand it. If I were honing a microbevel it would be much more difficult (for me at least) to "feel" the bevel on the sand paper. Doesn't really seem to take that much longer at all. With my plane irons I still use the guide as it is more difficult to fell the bevel on a thinner piece of metal. I use a 6 inch grinder when I have to grind a new bevel on a chisel or plane iron and then use the guide on both for the coaser grits. But when honing the chisel It has been really satisfying to get it sharp without the guide.
You might also consider getting a courser stone such as a 400 grit dimond stone or simmilar grit water stone. These will remove a lot of material in a hurry.
Troy
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled