My problem is dull files. I remember seeing ads in magazines way back when which sold a kit for resharpening files, but casn’t find anything like it now. Google gets me companies in the U.S. which do file resharpening, but this means shipping across the border. I can’t find a similar service in Canada. Has anyone got any ideas? I think the kit may have been an acid etch, but I’m not sure.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
I learned from some old timers to take a glass casserole dish and some battery acid and soak the files about an hour. Find something to put under the files to get them off the bottom of the glass dish. Can't get any simpler and low tech than that. It does extend the life of the files.
Edited 7/15/2005 6:49 pm ET by rick3ddd
With all due respect to those who say "acid etch" I can't believe that would work and have never seen anyone do it. As the acid would attack the smallest, thinnest parts first and mostly that would be the points and would therefore make it less sharp. Has anybody tried this and could we get some input from one of the file manufacturers as to the possibility of file sharpening. KDM
The Bill of Rights
December 15 1791
NRA Endowment Member
LEAA Life Member
CRPA Member
Jeema, I had several files sharpened by Boggs Tool Processing co. 14100 Orange Ave, Paramount CA 90723. (562) 634-1081. I was very well pleased with the result, and relatively low cost. I understand the process to be an injection under high pressure of a liquid bearing an abrasive that under-cuts each tooth of the file. My files came back like new.
Tom
Jeeme,This is a wood working forum, are you refering to rasps perhaps?
Are the ridges clogged up with matter? Buy a 'file card' at a machine tool supply (Very inexpensive.) Its a flat wire brush with a wood handle and fine tough short steel bristles.
Even if you buy new files, using the file card occasionally, will extend the life of your files. If you rub a piece of chalk on the file,before using, it will prevent debris from clogging it up..
My Dad told me when he worked in a shipyard,'42 -'46 they returned worn files to a firm to have them ' Acid Restored" When the restored files came back, all the tangs had been painted a certain color. Each trip the files took for an acid bath resulted in a different color. I believe after two color changes, they 'Deep sixed' them and bought new files. Steinmetz
When you find files for sale at flea markets, ignore those with painted tangs.
Edited 7/17/2005 3:50 pm ET by steinmetz
> ...When you find files for sale at flea markets, ignore those with painted tangs.Given that you can sometimes pick these up for less than pennies on the dollar, there's a lot of good, high carbon steel there wating to be made into something cool!Not necessarily another file, of course.Oops ... this is woodworking, not blacksmithin'............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Not so fast there Dennis,
Woodworms can make reasonable turning tools with old files of suitable size. In fact most of my turning tools are from that source. This would imply to the pro turner that I am a "scraper"-actually not so, and the results have passed scrutiny several times.
Admittedly not as efficient as high speed steel but I have not always had access to the ideal items so had to "make a plan" now and again.
Hi Phillip -I've been intriqued with the possibility of using some of my old files and/or rasps as turning tools. I find working way off the tool rest with most commercially available scrapers (yeah, scrapers! -grin-) they're just not as beefy as I'd like them to be. Is it possible to anneal then forge weld two files together to get a thicker cross section?I don't even have my forge built yet but I'm cataloging all the various projects that would make it a viable diversion from all the other things (the wife thinks) I need to be doing............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Hi Dennis,
I suppose the easiest way to join them together would be by silver soldering: but I don't understand why you want such mass?
Also, why are you working "way off the tool rest"? So I am surmising that you must be wanting to do giant turnings? If that is the case then I reckon it's better to get the proper dedicated tools for the job.
Also, I have seen some humungous files in engineering shops. My biggest one is about 24"x1/2"x2"-which I made into a round nose and use for roughing out as well as "careful" work.
A couple of weeks ago I went to a turners "fest" here, where I noted much talk about dig-ins or catches. I kept quiet, not really being a turning fanatic-but what I wanted to say was that I have never had a dig or catch that has damaged the work or myself-you see nobody taught me to turn so my methods are probably unorthodox to say the least.
If you are interested in continuing this thread I can show a pic of a spinning wheel I made in my youth using file tools and a Blackanddecker drill driven lathe.I still have the same tools.
Philip -My need for a heavy scraper is in deep hollowing work the likes of vases, etc. Items with too narrow an opening in which to extend a formed tool rest for support. I do have a Sorby hollowing tool which works well for removing material but my technique with it has yet to achieve much of a finish 'off the tool'. And sanding the inside of these types of forms isn't such an attractive operation. I can still count to ten without taking my shoes off and I intend to keep it that way.I have yet to explore the boring bar approach to hollowing. I'm planning in the near future to build a forge (for other types of tool and part making) so perhaps that's another project. Yeah, I could buy all this stuff but how much fun is that?!...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
>>> Is it possible to anneal then forge weld two files together to get a thicker cross section?
without discussing the "why" or the "should/shouldn't", answer is Yes. Anneal, grind the teeth off mating surfaces, use borax as flux, heat and pound, flux some more, heat and beat.... then grind/cleanup, harden at 1450 and quench in thin oil or brine. temper to your liking (prob 450?) If done right, as good as an original single piece of steel.
sharp,
That forge welding is easier said than done, though, isn't it? Seen it done, looked easy...tried it myself, not even close!
Cheers,
Ray
Yeah I agree with Dennis & Philip, lotsa uses for old files, many for WWorking, even if you don't balcksmith. I've turned dozens of them into custom knives (anneal and grind), scribing tools, cutting tools, scrapers... steel is excellent (W1/W2), it has to be to cut other metals.
OK, I'll shuddup now, this is afterall a ww forum :-)
In China I saw a a what I will call a 'water cannon'.. I guess something in that water cutting that steel..
Amazing... The day I was there they were making tiny 'swiss files'??..
It was something to watch! Not sure if they were 'quality' but looked pretty good to me..
Will, no where near the quality of real 'Swiss Pattern files (Grobert)
Asian imports =Definitly non quality Steinmetz.
Probably but looked really cool!
WillReal files are worked red hot. Then it is repeatedly struck by a sharp edged "chisel' to form the patterns ie: coarse/fine/mill/bastard/etc.Best quality steel (Not recycled Toyotas)
Manufactured in up to date precision mills. (Not in a backyard forge heated by cow dung.)
Steinmetz,Thanks. I never knew how files were made. And I realized as I read your explanation, I had never given it much thought, then I wondered why I hadn't! I vaguely remember occasionally picturing some sort of grinding process which occupied my 2 brain cells for about 3 microseconds before being swept away by even more mundane neural activity.BUT! . . . guys,Resharpen files?Why? These things tend to last a long time under most reasonable conditions.It isn't like these things are big ticket items. My gosh, we spend LOTS on other tools. By the time you've worn out a file, you can't spring for a new one?Rich
Rich: Why resharpen something as inexpensive as a file? Because files came in many sizes and degrees of fineness in the past. Now it is difficult to find anything but a ten inch course cut bastard file as a new file. My best files are old ones that are no longer available, therefore worth the minimal cost of resharpening. May I add that the file and rasp are under-appreciated as tools capable of fine shaping and surface preparation. One works through grades of files just as one does with sand-paper.
Tom
http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/nicholson_files/index.cfmNicholson files can be ordered through almost any decent hardware store, if they don't stock individual ones.Forget ordering from the borgs though, they don't generally understand the concept around here, at least.Leon Jester
There is nothing for creating organic shapes in wood like good high quality rasps and files. The guys who make high end wood for shotguns use little else and those finished chucks of wood are $3,000 to $6,000 each so they can afford to use any tool they want.Old files are vastly better than most of the junk you can buy today. Whenever I see NOS files around, I always buy at least 2 of everything they have even if I don't yet have a use for them because, well, I always find a use.If you love files, have one set for metal and another for wood and don't mix them up.I just finished teaching a gunstock making class at Woodcraft and tought the joys of using files. Having a full set from the coursest rasps to the finest makes fast work of a lot of wood.
"It isn't like these things are big ticket items. My gosh, we spend LOTS on other tools. By the time you've worn out a file, you can't spring for a new one?"It's clear that you've never bought a Nicholson #49 or #50 cabinetmaker's rasp...They aren't cheap. Wonderful tools for shaping wood, though!Regards,Ron
Ron,OK.So? . . . how much?Rich
"OK.So? . . . how much?"Around $40 for the #49 and $50 or so for the #50.Regards,Ron
Ron,"Cheapo" 10" carbide tooth saw blades at Home Depot are $40-50. They give great service (last a long time). While they can be sharpened, I can't remember the last time I ran into anyone who thought that simply buying a new one when dulling finally became a problem was wasting money. At that price, the time lost and cost of resharpening makes little sense. Although, if one has a new "spare," to get on with work, spending $25-30 to sharpen a $40 blade is acceptable, I guess.And you say those Nicholson's are the most expensive files?See where I'm going with this?Rich
I understand your logic when time is important, and a replacement tool doesn't cost a large amount more than resharpening. However, I had a strong Scot influence applied at early moments in my life and, unless it's clearly a stupid thing to do, I buy the best blades (etc.) that I can afford, treat them well, use them hard and resharpen or repair as necessary. I should also note that I've been talking about Nicholson rasps, not files, and this may be too far away from your original question.FWIW, Nicholson #49/50's aren't the most expensive rasps. That honor seems to be held by a line of Auriou rasps that have hit the North American market in the last few years. Each is hand made and will set you back between $75 and $125 each. I've heard that they're beautiful tools, but Bernie and Bill (my rasps) would be jealous if I added a newbie to the stable!Regards,Ron
I recall in the early sixties, accompanying my Grandfather to a nearby (remote)railroad switch (on the Santa Fe, with signal lights), where he opened the in-ground vault, exposing an array of Edison battery jars. He went to one corner, where there were three jars that had no electrodes nor wiring, lifted the porcelain top from one and inserted his dull rasps and files into the acid filling the thick walled jar, after which he closed the huge lid on the vault. That afternoon, we revisited the vault, removing the files and rinsing them with the gallon jug of water he had carried with us. He wrapped each file separately, tied the bundle with a string and back home we went, where he neutralized them with baking soda, dried them and oiled them well. Before he died in the late 60's, he gave me several of those jars & the Edison lids, given to him by his neighbor, retired from the railroad, who had arranged for him to have access to them. The railroad had run electricity to the site, dismantling the battery array, and had provided some other source of emergency power. From what I've seen, most "resharpeners" use acid on fine-toothed files ... after all, it works great, but extreme care must be used. Grandad told me that he first tried it on a shoe-rasp, left overnight, and there was nothing left but a black deposit in the bottom of the jar when he went to retrieve it.
By the way, the teeth on those files were razor sharp .... much sharper than new files, and dangerous to handle without gloves. I recall they were somewhat fragile at first, but evolved into "as new" performance.
John in Texas
John,
Great story telling and imagery. I felt like I was there with you, reading it.
Rich
Rich, (and John) Not only is this forum the most informative selection of solutions/ideas/tricks/and 'know how', but it is rich in stories and 'lore' from the Gasoline Alley guys who contribute to it every day.
I hope Prospero keeps a great majority of those old posts on file,so future generations will know why we Americans are called 'Can Do Types' or are described as, "awash in Yankee Ingenuity."Who would have guessed the present market for used tools,(American made)when every thing else now is mass produced of plastic and sawdust destined for the nearest dumpster?
Or,the proliferation of DIY shows, Norms ,Roy's,Marks etc? Wendy,Forest Girl and other women,do us all proud and will pass down their skills and artistry to their daughters as well.
I encourage all you youngsters to ask of your Dads and Granddads to pass along the 'Tales' and history we all cherish. Steinmetz.Edited 7/19/2005 11:54 pm ET by steinmetz
Edited 7/19/2005 11:56 pm ET by steinmetz
Will -The water is mixed with garnet (at least in the machine/application I'm familiar with) and shot through a ruby orifice about 0.030" (as I recall). This can cut anyting from glass to MDF. Yeah, MDF. We had to make some patterns with this stuff on the waterjet as well as severl hundred SF of custom patterned granite floor tile.Pretty amazing machine............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
The WATERJET System utilizes ultra-high water pressure (55,000 pounds per square inch) forced through a nozzle as small as 0.004 inches in diameter. The high velocity speed of the WATERJET (up to 3,000 feet per second) can cut a variety of metallic or non-metallic materials such as stainless steel, felt, rubber, graphite, fiberglass, titanium and many more!
how expensive are files in Canada? They usually arent worth much after a few uses any way-even the sweat from your hands rust them...... Aloha, mike
Seriously, in my neck of the woods back in the old days, the usual treatment for dull files was to put them out in the grass behind the shop and let them rust in the rain for a month or 2 and then clean them with a wire brush. I don't know that it actually sharpened them but it sure cleaned them out and they worked well again.
I recently aquired a large rasp which was really plugged and dirty. I put it out to rust and after cleaning it worked well and looked like new.
You can send them to
http://www.boggstool.com/index.htm
They have a liquid honing process. They will sharpen two for free.
I was told by an old ferrier that they used to keep the files in a bucket of urine. They would stay sharper longer. He never did say whether it was from the horses or him.
Cheers.
My Dad used to clean files using acid baths. A sulfuric acid and a nitric acid (both diluted). Never asked him why the nitric acid bath but I suppose it was to remove bronze or copper and sulfuric for the iron. PVC tubes (4" or more) with one end glued can be used as a vertical container so as to hang the files into the solution using as little acid as possible. After using you may keep the solution closed with a PVC ending (make a tiny hole to avoid gas cpmpression inside the tube). Adding a small amount of new acid activates the solution for a new file cleaning. Don't forget to neutralize the acid washing the files with a water-detergent solution and after that dry the files.
Contact US companies and see if they can give you any leads on names of Canadian companies doing similar work. Most companies are a member of some kind of "trade association" One US vendor who makes new files and offers resharpening is at Carolina's Expo every year. They have a minium of 25 files for resharpening and costs about $3.00 per file. Shops doing laminate work go through a bunch of files per year. The economics of $12.00-new or $3.00- resharpened is easy to figure out.
Howdy, everyone...To let you know what I wound up doing, I sent most off to Boggs in California, and got notification from him that he'd resharpened and put them back in the mail last Tuesday 2 weeks after I sent them off). Now to see what Canada Post and Customs do to what I consider damfine turnaround time...?..My resharpening costs were US$12.50 for 2-14" files,1-12",1-10",1-8"&1-6". Shipping by mail was around US$35.00 and I'm getting a new 18" flat bastard for another US$20.00,postage inclusive. This is of particular interest to me because I can't find that size and the main reason for the sudden interest is that I've been drafiling the soles of some of my planes to flatten them. When I got to my #5 Stanley, the goi9ng got slow, and the problem was a dull file. Examination of my file collection showed me an expensive replacement problem. Asking around led me here and other places, and Boggs Tool looked most cost effective. I pointed out that I had a time constraint;hence the note about turnaround. I'll post my opinion of the resharpeningwhen I get them back (Canada post and Canada Customs, the ball is in your court now- they were returned by air mail!). Acid resharpening is an option I shall try , but later.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled