Hi, Guys,
I have recently bought a victorian veneered box from an auction for a present to my wife, but it has been abused over the years, and there is damage to the mahogany veneer. I have bought some veneer, and even pearl glue (Scotch glue, hide glue, anamal glue – it seems to go under many names), but I haven’t got any experience of this type of repair – can any of you folks recommend a good one?
Many thanks,
Ozzy
Replies
Tell us a bit more about what is wrong with the veneer, what the old veneer was like--how thick is it and how it was finished. Also what is the box under the veneer like? These details will help in suggesting how you can best proceed.
Hi, Steve,
the box is probably made of a softwood, by the look of it. The veneer is pretty thin - less than 1/16th.
You can see from the pictures where the largest piece of missing veneer was - I have cut a straight line, with the idea of replacing the entire strip. The other areas of damage are much smaller, and I may be able to get away with less invasive surgery. The edge is also damaged in a few places, and this is, I think, either to scrape out and replace the original with another piece of wood, or use filler.
The most obvious damage, unfortunately, is the top - where everybody looks. The veneer has a lot of small splits. I have re-attached the lifted areas using my wife's iron and a clean cloth, rubbed down with a piece of hardwood - hence the scuff marks. The finish is a bit all-sorts. It appears to be a french polish, and later varnished. I am pretty sure it will all have to come off.
Thanks,
Ozzy
Edited 12/13/2005 7:07 am ET by Ozzy
The picture isn't coming across. It shows as 0KB on my listing.
Sorry, Steve - it doesn't appear to let me attach the files. I believe I wiould be able to do so using hotmail - could you let me have your e-mail address?
Mine is [email protected]
Many thanks,
ozzy
Hi, Steve,
I have just managed to post the pictures of the ladies box, and sent them to JP - would you mind taking a look at this also? I figure 3 heads have got to be better than the rather feeble example stuck on my shoulders!
Regards,
Ozzy
JP seems to be very much on point. The sequence is exactly what I would recommend. First do any structural repair if needed. Then fill in the veneer losses with veneer with grain that matches as close as possible. Then get the color, and then work with the old and new finish to blend in the repair. You can do a lot with the old finish short of complete stripping. If it is shellac or lacquer, the most likely possibilities, it could be reamalgamated rather than removed. Alternatively, sanding the surface very lightly with a fine grit--600 grit or finer can remove a grunge layer, that could be enough to bring the surface to life with a few coats of shellac.
Addinng a contrasting band around the edges is a common restorers "trick". Often done to enhance market value as well. If you just can't get the new to match with the old it is a good alternative.
Hide glue is the only way to go. Otherwise all the old (hide) glue would need to be scraped off, any new veneer clamped in place, and any new glue meticulously removed from the surface lest it interfer with finish.
Hi, Steve,
Many thanks for the suggestions and advice. A number of good ideas here - I will re-evaluate the patient, and see what might work.
Stay in touch, I will buzz you when I have some progress. Take care,
Ozzy
Ozzy,
If you could post a picture of the damage that would help.
Is the veneer loose or missing? Is it cracked or faded? Most veneer repairs are quite simple but color matching the repair can be quite tricky. If you can elaborate a little more I could give a better response.
J.P.
Hi, JP, and thanks for your offer to help. If you take a look at the response I sent to Steve, it will give you the low-down.
Regards,
Ozzy
Edited 12/13/2005 7:08 am ET by Ozzy
Hi, JP,
I have had a note from Steve, and he explained that my picture attachment is empty - I seem to be having trouble attching them using this forum. I believe I can send them via e-mail, if you let me have your e-mail ID, I will mail it out to you.
Mine is [email protected]
Many thanks,
Ozzy
Ozzy, if you can e-mail it then you can post it here-please have another go-load it into "my Documents" or something , then attach it from there.
I know mucho about these goggle boxes.Philip Marcou
Nice to hear from you, Philip. I am trying again..........
No - sorry mate. It doesn't want to play. It works from the PC at work, but from this one at home. I am obviously doing something very wrong.
Ozzy
Edited 12/20/2005 2:25 pm ET by Ozzy
You're not the only one having trouble attaching pics Ozzy. I tried to offer information to another question in another thread a few minutes back and the Attach Files button below the text box where you type won't open anything up. I didn't respond to that questioner in the end because I felt the added graphic would save me a bunch of typing I hadn't got time for.
This seems to be an intermittent problem for me. Sometimes the Attach Files button works, perhaps for a few weeks, and then it doesn't for a few more. Oh well. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Thanks for that, Richard, I'm glad it's not just me! Perhaps I should try and contact the Tech Services folk - when I have a mo!
Have a great new year.
Ozzy
I can only attatch files if I disable my fire wall BEFORE I open the reply/post new discussion window. I usually click REPLY type out my message, then I dissable my Norton Security stuff and click PREVIEW. From the preview page I click REVISE and then the attatch files thing will work. In other words disableing the firewall while on the compose page is not enough, it must be dissabled when the compose page loads.
Mike
Richard -
I had that problem a few months ago and traced it to my "popup" blocker. After I told it that popups were OK on this site, everything worked fine.
I'll investigate that possibility. Thanks Dave. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard, check your firewall settings, they can do odd things at times, I've found I had to reset mine from time to time, after an upgrade or update.Leon
Hi, JP,
I am going to try mailing the pictures again.........seems to have worked this time.
The bit I am really bothered about is the lid. You will see that I have cut the veneer to a straignt edge, but frankly the rest of the lid is so poor, I am considering stripping the entire face, and replacing it. This will mean re-cutting the recess for the mother-of-pearl inlay, so another steep learning curve!
What do you think? Have you used hide glue? I don't really want the expense of a glue pot ($100 upwards), if I am only going to do it once - any ideas?
Many thanks,
Ozzy
Ozzy,I think hide glue is the best glue for veneer repairs and actually most repairs since it wont interfere with finishing. I use hide glue quite a bit so I have the electric glue pot. However you can use a double boiler set up quite successfully for your needs. Put some water in a pot and find another that nests on top and put the glue in a jar and add water to the pot then set it on the stove. You can also just put water in a pot and the glue in a jar and set it on the stove if the Aga has a spot that will raise the temperature to around 60 degrees Celsius that will work just fine.In all actuality the top doesn't look that bad. I have had to repair worse. The most difficult part is to match the new repair with the old surface. I would clean the box as best I can then try to determine what type of finish is on it. Probably shellac but could be lacquer. Glue up all the repairs next. You will need a veneer hammer or, sometimes for small repairs, the cross pein of a warrington style hammer works well. If you don't have either of those then a thick piece of steel or brass, like an old door hinge, can do in a pinch. Remember to work quickly with the hide glue and if some parts won't lay down use a warm iron to get it down.Matching the finish is the toughest part. I would try to even out the old part of the top by toning with tinted shellac and then gradually add color to the repair until it matches. The tough thing about your situation is that the veneer is quite buckled so the repair most likely will stand out even if the color is dead on. So more than likely you would need to scrape the entire surface level and smooth then refinish the whole top in order to get a repair that will blend with the rest of the piece.Or, why not remove the same amount of material from around all four edges of the top and apply the veneer as crossbanding then then scrape level the surface and refinish.If I were doing the repair I would start with the basics of replacing the losses and matching them to the rest of the piece then move on from there if I was not satisfied with the look.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Hi, JP, and thanks for responding so quickly.
That sounds like very good advice - especially the bit about finding a warm spot on the Aga. I really think we might be in with a chance here.
I will let you know how I get on,
Many thanks,
Ozzy
Restoring antiques..
I just walked up and gave her a hug and a kiss.. She giggled.. And it was OK..
Sorry I have a strange mind..
Whoa there, Will!
Have a great new year.
Ozzy
Before doing ANYTHING, I would advise taking it to an antiques appraiser and see what it is worth and what doing these "repairs" will do to the value. If it is not a valuable piece, go ahead, if it has any real value, the repairs you are contemplating could either make it worthless or greatly devalue it.
Well, if it was an antiques auction (as opposed to being a happenstance find in an mostly unrelated auction), he pretty much knows what the value is.
He also indicated that it was Victorian.
Both indicia suggest its not worth much more than was paid. And, that not much chance that a well done veneer repair would hurt the value.
The Antiques Road Show twins have a lot to answer for in spreading and reinforcing the "grunge is in" look. It is quite unfortunate that deteriorating finishes is "in" right now. Under such grunge, ill effects of seasonal woodmovement are exacerbated, the original craftsman's intentions are ignored, and people are asked to live with unattractive furniture. Not only that, but preserving some refinisher's project dating from the centenial era seems hardly worth the effort. Not to say that only pieces should look like new, but that sensitive restoration and repair can only enhance value in the long run.
Nicely put, Steve.
Have a great new year.
Ozzy.
Hi there, thanks for your input.
I don't really see it as valuable - I paid £100 (less than $200 US), and I figure even if it were pristine (which it will probably never be) it wouldn't be worth more than $1000.
Good to hear from you, hope you had a good Xmas - have a good new year.
Ozzy.
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