i tried this one on some gun forums. those guys were very helpful in terms of gun knowledge, but in terms of finishing they were pretty useless.
so cleaning out grandma’s closet we found my late grandfathers winchester m1917. original parts, still oiled, still functions smoothly. once it’s cleaned it’ll fire.
the problem is that he was heavily involved in his VFW (his hall has since closed) and this must have been his parade piece. it’s been coated with some kind of heavy glazing varnish and all the steel (save the working parts) have been painted gold. i would like to restore a factory finish. i’m not worried about resale value because i’m keeping it as an heirloom so i have no compunctions about stripping it, but i have no idea what to put on the stock once i’ve got this gunk off it. any ideas?
Replies
Linseed oil is an old standby for stocks-
Try Brownells they have everything in gun care and refinishing. Brownells - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories and Gunsmithing Tools
The Bill of Rights
December 15 1791
NRA Endowment Member
LEAA Life Member
CRPA Member
Not exactly 'fine' but I've liked the results of simple Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil gun stock finish, most likely available from most larger gun/sporting good stores, heck I think even Wal-Mart carries it in the sporting goods section. I've tried their cold-blue in the past, and had so-so results, but admittedly I was rather young then (high school, 15yrs or so ago) so I wouldn't necessarily blame that on the product.
HTH,
Monte
bastid,
As already posted, linseed oil would have been the most likely finish used by military armorers in the era of your grandpa's '17 Enfield. Any modern "oil finish" will give the appearance of linseed oil, without its unfortunate tendency to blacken over time. You see a wide variety of finish quality on the stocks of old military arms, due to the treatment they received at the hands of the troops who carried them. I've read stories of soldiers who painstakingly burnished the wood of their riflestock to a nice luster, other rifles were poorly maintained or received abusive treatment during the course of the war. Not to mention what happened to them in their civilian life after dcm cut them loose.
The ones made by Winchester and Remington have more value than those made by Eddystone arsonal. Enjoy your grandpa's rifle. Not sure I'd remove the parade part of its history, but it's your call.
Regards,
Ray
on an only remoted note-
i was at a party recently and a friend brought his 17 yr old niece. he introduced her and mentioned that she's staying with his family for the summer and is from Montezuma, Iowa- accompanied by the eyeroll and tone of voice to convey his impression that, of course, nobody has ever heard of Montezuma, Iowa. i noted that it's the home of brownell's gunsmith supply and his niece perked up and said, "i work for them!" she was tickled somebody actually knew what her little hometown was famous for.
m
We carried rifles with wooden 'furniture' until the mid 90's as our principal weapon. (these were an Australian licenced version of the Belgian FN with .308 NATO cartidges - never any question of reliability or stopping power)
The official training on these weapons included maintenance: Linseed oil, or if not available OX18 (which was the medium machine oil issed for cleaning the steel parts including the barrel) No one ever carried linseed. On return to barracks, the accepted practice was a polish with brown boot polish and a good buff with an old singlet. The usual boot polish until abot 1980 was an oil based polish made by KIWI, pity it went out of style with clean shoes.
There was no shortage of dings in these weapons, but they were looked after meticulously every day or more often by any soldiers I commanded.
Dave (3rd generation infantryman)
Singlet?Kenneth Duke Masters
The Bill of Rights
December 15 1791
NRA Endowment Member
LEAA Life Member
CRPA Member
>> Singlet?http://www.blessedearth.com.au/images/mens-singlet-sml.jpg
thanks everyone for the advice.i've heard a lot of ideas from some gun expert friends of mine, including not cleaning it.the basic premise here is that i plan on keeping this gun, and eventually i'd like to shoot it too. currently this gun is ugly. i'm afraid i may have been misleading when i said "parade piece." this was not a gun that was painted white for drills. i'm pretty sure this was for firing at funerals. this thing had been maintained for firing, but the current finish is an atrocity. so i would like to have it as clean and original looking as possible to hang onto. as for parts, the one thing i do know is it has everything that the good people at winchester gave it when it left the factory in 1917.i've got a lot of real, for-pay projects to get accomplished before i have the space to even THINK about working on the rifle. i think i'll use that time to get it appraised and looked over by a gunsmith.the only thing i'm worried about is taking it apart. a buddy of mine has been a competition marksman since the age of 6 and been around this type of weapon for a while. he advised me that there a lot of tiny spring loaded parts in the ejector and to be careful.other than that, can anyone tell me a little about the process of re-blueing the metal parts i'm going to have to strip gold paint off?
First of all, I second, third? the idea of using Birchwood Casey's Tru-oil on the stock. I think I read that it is polymerized linseed oil. ANyway, it is supposed to be very good.
As far as re-bluing: From what I've read, this is something best left to experts, or at least someone who has done it many times before--it requires special equipment and can be dangerous (the chemicals can be pretty nasty). To get the old metal completely free of old paint, oil, grease, etc., is quite a process and unless things have changed in recent years, one of the requirements was boiling the metal in caustic (plugging the bore first, of course) , then rinsing and not touching it (the oil in fingerprints will ruin the bluing job). Bluing is a process of controlled rusting and can be quite involved. (Again the bore must be plugged so you don't rust it.) I would go to a competent gunsmith. There is, of course, cold bluing (a solution you brush on, after, hopefully, cleaning the metal so the bluing takes), but I have never been happy with the results. I think someone else gave you an address for Brownell. They have books about gunsmithing and just about every tool or chemical you might need to do gunsmithing yourself.
bastid e,
Look in your local library for an NRA publication called "Firearms Assembly 3". In it are instructions for dissassembly of your rifle, under the heading "U.S. Rifle Model 1917 (Enfield)" . It may be available on line thru the NRA website. If you can't find it, let me know, and I'll be glad to Xerox a copy and mail it to you. E mail me off list, [email protected] , if you need a copy. My book says the Winchesters were blued, not parkerized, incidentally. If you are lucky, you may not have to reblue after stripping the paint. Real, hot bluing is an involved process you probably will want to leave to an experienced gunsmith. Nasty chemicals, tanks big enough to suspend the barreled action in, metal baskets for small parts, something to heat the tanks. Cold bluing is less attractive, inconsistant, and not too durable. Ok for touch-ups but probably not for a whole gun. Worn bluing doesn't look out of place on a military arm, in my opinion, anyway.
Cheers,
Ray
In Nj and boton they cally those Ginea T'sWicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Very close, I was trying to use what I thought to be American English (oxy-moron if ever there was one)
What I should have said was a Jackie Howe - same thing but purchased dark blue and and usually worn to a sort of blue-grey with ventilation holes (until it becomes sufficiently mature for use as a car polisher etc).
http://www.effect.net.au/lukastan/oz/Attire.htm
Jackie Howe's record was 321 sheep hand shorn in 7hrs 40 minutes in 1892
Those old 1917's used to be so worthless everyone cut them up and made hunting rifles out of them but no more. The value of old US service rifles is skyrocketing, especially anything made by Winchester. If I remember correctly, they were either forced into bankruptcy or near to it after WWI by their gov't contracts for weapons, they learned to be more careful.
I make reproduction military stocks and so I have some experience in restoring vintage stocks. There is some good advice being given here, better than one would get on a gun oriented site, thats for sure.
Anyway, as a number of people mentioned, linseed IS the original finish although some tung oil was used during WWII. Linseed is a crappy finish though, as someone mentioned, it darkens over time. When I duplicate original finishes, I use a coat or two (no more and I often thin it a bit with turpentine) to seal the wood and put the last couple coats on with linseed. The tru-oil dries faster, protects the wood better because it is harder and less water permeable and then put the linseed on so it has the right smell.
When you strip the stock, watch for the various stamped marks on the stock and try and avoid soaking those areas with stripper as the marks add greatly to the value and history of the piece. Sometimes you can see what service the rifle was issued to, who inspected it at the factory, if and when it was rebuilt and by which arsenal, etc. Same goes when you steam out the dents, watch for the marks and don't steam them out! If you don't know how to steam out dents, it makes all the difference in refinishing a stock and drill rifles ALWAYS have dents!
As for the metal, the original finish on a Winchester is bluing rather than Parkerizing (a manganese phospate process, quite easy to do at hom) if I remember correctly. Let the chemicals do the paint stripping, don't use a wire brush or anything that will scratch it. The 1917s were for the most part, kept as war reserve and were in great shape when the gov't sold them back to us citizens so it is likely to be in great shape under the paint.
The rifles are a great gun, have an increadibly strong action and are often used to build heavy magnum rifles. The one weak point is the ejector, the spring that powers it is staked on and tends to break. Original wood and barrels have become impossible to find but all other parts except ejectors are quite common.
There is a parquet floor in the ballroom of the Conservatory at Longwood Gardens, which was Pierre Dupont's estate near Kennet Square, PA .
It was made from US rifle stocks sold as surplus after WW I.
Bob Smalser is your boy. You'll find him here now and again. He's a good man who does superb work.
Bas,
Michael has given you very good advice and provided informative reading also.
Note what he says about preserving numbers ,symbols etc.:later generations may not thank you if you remove them. Today's "worthless" things are often tomorrow's collectables.
i tried this one on some gun forums. those guys were very helpful in terms of gun knowledge, but in terms of finishing they were pretty useless.
If you want the best price if you want to sell it.. LEAVE IT ALONE and do not do anything to it!
Well, you can wipe the dust off wit' a rag...
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled