Rigid from Home Depot – lifetime warr.
Terrye
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I have a DeWalt table saw that just gave up the ghost (motor burned up) – had it a little over a year and it’s out of warranty. According to DeWalt I’m out of luck. I was told about the home depot brand that has a lifetime warranty – has anyone any comments on this.
Their basic saw seems equivalent with Delta – 1 1/2 hp, contractor grade. Price $497.00. My budget right now will go $700.00 tops. I do push a lot of wood through my table saw. Whats the best brand for my bucks?
Thanks – Terry
Replies
Terry, the first thing I'd do in your situation is figure out why the motor burned out! Even with a lifetime warranty there's apt to be some kind of disclaimer somewhere.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The lifetime warranty is on "Manufacturers defects". Anything that simply "wears out" due to use (or misuse) can be denied according to their warranty.
At first I was impressed by the Rigid warranty, now I see it as just a clever marketing tool.
Stan
Yep, that's what I meant by "disclaimer" -- figured it was something like that, but never read the warranty so didn't want to assume. Why are we not surprised? :-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
What other woodworking tool manufacturer has even a "limited" warrantee as good as the Ridgid?
Of course they are going to exclude misuse or normal wearable parts.
I'll bet that the motor burnout would have been covered under the Ridgid warrantee.
Don't know of any situations where a motor gave out on a Rigid, so cannot say whether they would cover it or not. My suspicions are that a motor is considered a normal wear and tear item and would not.
As to other companies giving better warranties--at least the other companies don't make a big deal of "lifetime warranty" then have the little asterisk and fine print to state only covering manufacturers defects
Some major tool companies , like Millwaukee, will cover parts that fail even after the warranty is long gone. (Not from wear and tear, but complete failure due to defects. They apparently choose not to play the marketing ploy of Rigid.
I have nothing against the Rigid line of tools, have a thickness planer myself, but just don't think highly of BIG CLAIMS followed by little print!
Terry, I have one of those Ridgid contractors' saws from HD. Maximum bang for the buck, IMO. If you decide to pick one up, spend the extra & get the cast iron extensions - still brings you in @ $600.00.
Why not just replace the motor. Electric motors are not terribly expensive. Seems like if you burn up a motor, you are overloading the saw. You may be able to pick up a larger motor that will fit, say 2 hp and still be at 120VAC Also, are you using dull blades? That will really overload a motor.
Terry-
While replacing the motor sounds good, from what I can tell on DeWalt's web site that is a special frame motor, with a welded bracket, and you will have to get DeWalt's replacement part for that saw. The 1.75 hp number is also suspicious, since that's a non-standard rating. I doubt that you can get a larger motor without making an adapter yourself. Regarding the Rigid, the motors I've seen on them in HD have a blank on the nameplate under HP, and also a blank under Service Factor (SF). Those motors are made by Emerson, who also makes the saw. (It looks like a standard NEMA 56 frame, and is therefore easily replaced with something more robust.) Most of the motors on small homeowner and shop air compressors, with the fantasy ratings like 5.5 peak hp, are also Emerson, and they too have blanks or "SPL" on the nameplates. Come to think of it, I believe Sears saws use the same motors these days. Emerson refers to them as "Power Tool" motors. They are not industrial grade, and will not hold up under heavy use. Not to knock Emerson, which makes industrial motors to several thousand hp, along with extremely sophisticated special purpose motors and drives (fuel cell powered cars, for instance) but in order to make a saw that can sell for less than Delta, Jet, Powermatic, General, etc, corners must be cut and that is just one of the ways. Put an industrial Baldor, Lincoln, Marathon, or US Motors (which is Emerson) next to one of these "power tool" motors, and you'll see the difference. forest_girl is right in asking why it burned out in the first place. Search on "voltage drop" for enough bedtime reading to last a few nights. But the motor may also just not be made for the kind of use you put it to.
If it were me, I'd look at Delta, Jet, Powermatic, etc for a replacement, if you intend to continue heavy cutting. The Jet had a good rep around here, and it has an industrial Baldor TEFC motor (Delta is open frame Marathon - requires blowing out from time to time), and has standard pulleys, good for link-belt upgrade (Powermatic uses 3VX belt, 3/8" wide, capable of much higher hp than 4L or A (1/2" wide), but you probably have to change pulleys to use a link belt, if you even can). These saws also take all kinds of aftermarket fences and other goodies. By the time you buy a saw, then replace the motor in a year or two, you could have bought a Jet with excellent upgrade path.
Sorry about the long tirade; I've had a lot of coffee.
Edit: Switched "Rigid" and "DeWalt"; too much coffee.
Be seeing you...
Edited 6/25/2002 6:37:04 PM ET by TDKPE
"What other woodworking tool manufacturer has even a "limited" warrantee as good as the Ridgid?...Of course they are going to exclude misuse or normal wearable parts..."
This is what I think, too. About the only retailer that I know of that will give a repair/replacement/refund, whenever, for whatever reason including the purchaser's own stupidity, is L.L. Bean. I think Ridgid's exclusion for misuse or normal wearable parts is reasonable.
What might the ramifications be for putting a more powerful motor on a saw platform that wasn't designed for it?
I have never seen a Jet with a Baldor motor. Their motors are all TEFC but the ones I have seen are all made in Taiwan. Powermatic may use US made motors.
After reading a message, I remembered my boss (an electrician) told me the higher the amperage, the higher the stain on the motor. Perhaps, switch to 220v to drop the required amperage to run the motor. Probably will only require a rewire of the motor and switch; a simple procedure from what I'm told.
I have two DeWalts and the first burned up also, after about three years. I took it to the DeWalt service center ( after replacing the field and then the armature myself) and they informed me of their policy: Maximum repair charge of something like $135. They will not charge over that amount to fix unless it is deemed completly shot. Seemed pretty good, I have not got my saw back yet so we will see. It has been a week last Friday.
I must add that they were quite impressed with my saw stand. They recommended listing it on E-Bay. So Idid. I have about six left to sell. Several other contractors have them also and are very happy. I am trying to prove its' worth to the big boys at DeWalt, Bosch or Porter Cable. Who knows? If you are interested try E-Bay, search Kwik Stand. Tell me what you think. This link should work also. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2034540722
Would appreciate some feedback,
Scott
As it was mentioned before, ridgid uses cheap motors. not only are they rated at peak horsepower, which means that they're pumping you full of crap if they tell you that the motors are 1.5 hp. the other major problem I have with ridgid tools is that they don't use TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled) motors, which means that dust can easily get into the motor and destroy it. they should have a little disclaimer saying do not expose this machine to sawdust if you want your motor to last.
The 1.5hp motor used on the Ridgid contractor saw gives every indication of being a true 1.5hp. The amperage is right in line and the size of the motor is about right.
As to TEFC motors. These are not needed on most tools. For a cabinet saw where the motor in inside the case, a TEFC motor is required. However, for a contractor saw it is not. Delta does not use TEFC motors and rarely has had any motor problems.
Another point, current Craftsman (made by Ryobi), Ridged (made by Emerson) and the small 10" Delta RAS's all use the same motor manufactured by Emerson.
I looks pretty darn spiffy! I'm wondering however, how much of an ordeal is it to collapse into the mobile form. Since the saw is pretty heavy, is it a bit of a strain?
-David P.
Actually it is quite easy, just needs a small amount of hand foot coordination. I have a demonstration video that I can send you. If I knew how to E-mail a video without taking an hour I would do that. Leave me your mailing address and I can send it to you. Leave me your E-Mail address and maybe I will try that again. Glad to see you like it.
Scott
Which dewalt table saw is the motor from? And did you use your gold visa to pay for it, if so them you might have the auto extra year warranty.
First thats the reason I dont buy default tools anymore because of the p-- poor customer service. Now before I would buy a new saw I (If I was happy with the default) see how much it would be to get it repaired. If it was more then Id like to pay I would consider a delta or jet. The Delta and Jet tools also have a 2 year factory warranty on their tools. If there motors ever burn out after the warranty period you can get 2 hp baldors for a pretty decent price. As for the Home Dildo they have changed there return policy. It seems the last few times I went in there their return policy was based on whomever was behind the counter and their mood. So buyer beware on that one. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Thanks for all the replies - I went to HD today and talked with two different salespeople. They both said the same thing the warranty is only invalid if you misuse or abuse the saw. Supposedly if the motor burns up in five years it's covered as long as you were using it correctly - we'll see.
I never could figure out why the DeWalt burned up - I have had great results with other DeWalt products I own. We were resawing a lot of cedar 2x4s the last six months( we can't get quality 1x4s for a decent price so we make our own) - always keep the blades sharp - we use Freud resawing blades, no voltage drop (plugged in the wall) - so who knows. I am taking it in to a DeWalt service center for an estimate, but they are two weeks behind in estimates. Who can live that long without a table saw - not me!
Anyway I will more than likely give this saw a try - I'll let you know.
Terry
Have you considered looking for a good used cabinet saw? I purchased an 1965 Delta Unisaw with 6' extension rails for $250 searching the internet and papers for about a week. Just an idea. I've owned 3 different contractor style saws and none of them compare to the Unisaw I purchased. And I paid less for it than two of the contractor saws.
I would love to have a used cabinet saw, I just haven't been able to locate one. I have looked everywhere local that I could think of, just haven't found one yet. I am going to keep my eyes open and when I find one I'll grab it. I think that it would be fun to find one used that need some work and restore it. I haven't tried the internet yet - I'll give that a try to locate one.
Terry
Where do you live? I was able to find three cabinet saws (2 Unisaws and 1 Powermatic) within a 50 mile radius of my home (Cleveland) with about 10 minutes worth of searching on the web. One Unisaw had a Biesmeyer fence and was listed for $800 and the other was a standard (Round tube) fence for $650. The Powermatic was only 6 years old and was listed for $750. Not too shabby. I'll hunt for you if you let me know your location.
Mad Hunky Workshop
I appreciate that - I am in S.W. Missouri, just outside of Springfield. I have been looking in the paper and checking auctions - that type of thing. I tried to look on the internet but didn't see anything. Thanks.
Terry
I just use a couple search engines and classified adds - Google, AOL Classified, Yahoo Clssified, Netscape Classified. If you search for words like unisaw and the state you live in then you'll often fine local city websites, that list classifieds. If your willing to drive afew hours to pick up a tool, then you can always get a great deal. $250 for a Unisaw and an 8 hour drive wasn't bad at all. You just have to hunt. Also don't to pick up a farm and dairy auction paper. With the way the economy is right now there are a lot of cabinet shops and furniture shops going out of business. Which means there's tons of auctions for these tools. Indiana is a great source for these auctions and sales as well as any Amish area. Most of the Amish funiture builders use cabinet saws band saws and other power tools. I've only been in one Amish furniture shop that used all neanderthal tools (I'm a current neanderthal). A good place to start looking is:
http://www.exfactory.com/
Hope this helps.
Mad Hunky Workshop
Thanks - it helps a lot. I'm looking now.
Terry
Another approach is to run a "Wanted" ad in the Tools classified sections of the newspaper. Often, when someone is getting ready to advertise, they peruse the paper to see if others are advertising, at what price, etc. If they see your Wanted ad, you might get a call before they even run an ad!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If you are just out of Springfield, then you, no doubt, are aware of the tent sale that Grizzly is having on the 20th of July. They will have scratch and dent items at drastically reduced priced.
Last year, I purchased a 1023ZX at their tent sale. It did not have any extension wings or fence. This was ok because I purchased the sliding miter table that replaces the left fence and I was planning on making the right side extension table anyway. I didn't need a fence because I had recently purchased the Incra TS-III. So, for $175 (plus 225 for the sliding miter table) I got an awesome saw that I would put up against any delta of powermatic. It has a 5 HP single phase motor that I have never even remotely bogged down.
The draw-back to owning a grizzly: You will need to understand what is required for tuning your machine. I had to file out some holes where the table attaches to the trunion carriage (for lack of a better term - no flames please) in order to get the blade PERFECTLY parallel to the miter slots. It was only 0.004" out, but I am a perfectionist when it comes to calibration. :) You will also need to take the blade support flanges off the arbor and flatten them. They were made of pre-formed steel and were not perfectly flat, thus causing the blade to be pinched between to flanges that were not perfectly parallel, I flattened them on a granite surfacing block and almost all the vibration went away. I bought the machined pulleys and the power-twist v-belt (the red one that comes in pieces and you put make your own belts). They way it runs now, you can't tell it is on unless you take off your hearing protection, and even then it is very smooth and quiet.
It could be argued that the time I spent could have paid for a powermatic, but I don't think they are 100% perfectly aligned out of the box either.
Don't get me wrong, if I had enough money to get a powermatic or delta, then I would have, but I still would have spent a bit of time truing and tuning it.
-Del
How did you go about your net search for your area to find the items? I live in St. Louis.
Michael
pressure dewalt to fix the other saw. Had the same type of problem with a chevy and got about 60% paid for to replace the tranny. Poor quality control should not have to be absorbed by the customer. Besides, you can save a while more and hopefully get a Jet/Delta soon.
I am in the process of working with DeWalt on fixing the saw - it is at a service center now and they are taking a look at it.
I bought the Rigid and after 3 1/2 hours of setup, which went pretty well, I started cutting - 2nd board bogged down the blade and kicked the breaker. I was resawing 4' Cedar 2x4's. I had on my Freud resawing blade. I did manage to get the job done but the feed rate with this saw was very slow. Anyway I took it back - absolutely no problem whatsoever - I have to say the HD was excellent about the return - I just brought in the saw like it was (didn't have to put it back in the box) and they gave me a full refund - no questions asked.
The lesson here is that I need a cabinet saw with a 3hp motor. I looked at the Unisaw limited edition with Beisemeyer for $1550 and the grizzy G1023S with their fence for $1000. They look pretty equal (other than the fence, the Bess I'm sure is much better)- I did go back over the archives and look at past threads about various TS - but some love their Grizzlies and some hate them - and their are some that don't like the Unisaw - so what's a guy to do? I have never used either one. You always want a TS that going to last - and at the best price. Any comments?
Terry
"The lesson here is that I need a cabinet saw with a 3hp motor."
I think you're assuming too much here. Not all 1.5hp saws are alike. Some can take a load better then others. I know this was a factor in my decision to buy a delta 1.5hp table saw. I recall one of the articles I read (forgot which magazine) compared a bunch of contractors saws and found quite a bit of difference in bogging down between some saws. My delta has worked great for me. I've resawn 5" maple by doing one side, then flipping it over and doing the other side. The only time I ever had a problem was resawing pine 2x4's, but that was due to the instability of the pine, kept trying to twist and grab the sides of the blade. Plus I was doing about 20 boards and didn't have a dedicated line for the saw at the time. A couple other things were drawing off same circuit.
David P.
You wrote earlier; "We were resawing a lot of cedar 2x4s the last six months( we can't get quality 1x4s for a decent price so we make our own) - always keep the blades sharp - we use Freud resawing blades..." which suggests you are a commercial user. If you were otherwise happy with the performance of the DeWalt and were willing to use a contractor type saw going forward (Rigid), then the step up to any real cabinet saw, including the Grizzly that you are considering, will be a huge improvement, and you'll never look back, IMHO. Just don't buy more tool than you need.
Be seeing you...
Your correct - I have needed a cabinet saw for some time now. It just when I started this I had 2 contractors saws and just naturally started using them, and over time you get use to working them. I have been putting off upgrading - not wanting to spend the extra money. There are always other tools on the waiting list. But as I have heard from others and know myself it costs you in the long run if you by less expensive or even under powered tools. So I will bite the bullet and get a cabinet saw, it will be money well spent. Thanks.
Terry
I don't know if you used a credit card to purchase that Dewalt, but my Gold Card doubles the warranty up to a year extra. I've used this service once to collect on a notebook computer. There was some paperwork and it required an estimate, but they came through with the coverage. If you have a Gold Card, call the number on the back to find out about it. Some people forget this benefit, so I thought I'd mention it.
BTW, I vote for a used cabinet saw. I bought my 3 y.o. General 350 for $1000, and the guy before me bought an older green Powermatic 66 for $850. I know of another fellow who beat me to a more recent 66 with a large Excalibur sliding table for $1100. I bought his sliding table for $300, so he had a newer vintage 66 for $800 (best deal I've seen yet.) Keep your eyes peeled.
Good Luck,
Rick
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