After reading the other thread about issues with Woodcraft, I decided to rant about a situation I experienced with Rockler recently. I ordered an item (doesn’t matter what) that cost about $19. A little over two weeks later, it was placed on sale for about half price. I requested a refund to my credit card in the amount of the difference in price. Basically, I was told to take a flying leap and get a life. Tough cookies about my timing, but if I want the item at the sale price I would have to return the original at my expense and pay shipping on the item at the sale price. Yeah, right.
During the same month, Amazon issued credit almost without asking in a similar situation as did another vendor. Needless to say, Rockler will get less of my business going forward.
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Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Replies
Oh Bill , youre just grumpy today. When is that cruise coming up ? It might take some tension away.
** being honest though, if that happened to me Id can their asses too**
Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Me? Grumpy??? You haven't seen grumpy yet!!!
We returned from the cruise Monday. Had a great time, of course. This was our first, so a lot of time was spent just figuring out what a cruise was all about. Besides going through withdrawal from not being in my shop, I ate enough for three normal people and didn't really get plowed until the final day at sea. Having been through the cruise experience now, I can see why people like them so much. No doubt, we'll go again.
(...by the way...nobody complained about my Speedo!)
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
You may want to call the credit card company re: returns on purchases made with the card. In some places, if you pay with MC/VISA, the vendor has to let you return the goods, unless they were consumed. Most places that have a clue will price-protect you for 30 days. I would call the Rockler corporate office on this. It's not the amount, it's the principle. They need to know how their staff treats customers. I have been told by people at Rockler that the discount cards on the flyers don't have an expiration date that'e etched in stone. Not that they'll take it 6 months down the road, but if you miss a sale and have a card, they'll let it slide. On the other hand, most of the questions I have asked there were greeted with "deer in the headlights" looks, so I usually go in there prepared with whatever info I may need, just so I can buy on price, if possible. This is really more of a customer service issue than a pricing issue, though.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 1/20/2005 5:45 pm ET by highfigh
I used to buy 1/4" shelf sleeves and pins from Rockler until I learned they pack the 16ct packages themselves. I asked about ordering bulk,... well no decent response there.
Now I order packs of 1000 from http://www.wwhardware.com at .004 cents a peice rather than the .12 cents Rockler wants. Of course wwhardware will sell you a few for .12 cents apeice if you want, but at least they give you the option up front.
Most of the prices from wwhardware is much better than Rockler.
Bill
Bill,
Thanks for the site link. I'll check them out next time around. I've purchased very selectively from Rockler anyway. Sometimes they have a competitive price on an item; most of the time the attitude seems to be, "We're Rockler, so we deserve more!"
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
I think that Rockler Su cks! They charge at least 2 prices for almost everything, and when I do need something in a pinch go in there, they give me the 3rd degree cause I won't give them my phone# to get in their computer.
Why would I want to be on their mailing list, since I already get 2 catalogs a month which have different covers, but identical content.
They should send out fewer mailings, so they could afford to lower their prices---
Just my opinion--I myy be wrong...
"... They charge at least 2 prices for almost everything, ..."
Well, in some fairness to Rockler, they do what most vendors do if you dig a little. You can get the 'retail' price or a 'professional discounted' price from a lot of vendors. After getting the standard Rockler catalog for years, I began receiving the Rockler Pro catalog a couple of years ago. Across the board, pricing in the Pro catalog is 10% lower than the retail catalog. When I signed up on the Pro website, I got a little bit of the third degree which is understandable and they let me set up an account. I've been satisfied with the Pro pricing overall, but find may items at lower cost elsewhere. I don't mind shopping around a bit to get the best price.
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
I haven't shopped there in a while since I can also usually find things cheaper elsewhere. Even though I'm only about 25 minutes from a store. I wasn't aware of the Pro pricing. But what I have come across in the past is that I'll call the store to ask if they have something in stock - something I can't wait on mail order for - and find out they have it. I get to the store and discover that they have the item priced higher than the catalog, and apparently don't see anything wrong with this.
I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.
That reminds me of the order I placed a few days ago, then cancelled when I got a shipping price update. It was from Woodsmith.
The order price was $15.95 (U.S. funds) with about $4.95 for shipping (to US) on top of that. But for we difficult Canadians, the shipping added $23.75 US to the order so I would be paying $39.70 US for about a $15 item. Now after you convert that to our dollars, I am looking at a cost of about $50.00 CDN for that $20 US item.
Why don't they just say they don't ship to Canada due to ...?
And I know that we can blame our Gov. for import duties, customs fees, taxes, etc. but I couldn't be ensured that these costs wouldn't have been added on top of Woodsmith's invoice. Other vendors add a small amount on shipping and let us dealwith the other costs with the border agents.
Brian
It sounds like Woodsmith was hosing you on the shipping charges. I would call the shipper or go online and find out what the cost of shipping a package of the same weight from your place to the Woodsmith address. I just had something shipped from Missisauga and the return charge for me is around $10 US for a .5 KG package. This is shipped by FedX, by the way. What was the weight of the package from Woodsmith?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Today I had a a similar run-around from a large computer chain. It will be a cold day in hell before I buy anything else from them. I'll wait a day or two to cool down and let the headquarters know why I will not be spending my $$ with them any more. I will now go to any one of their competitors to spend my $$. SawdustSteve
Hey Bill, what about the one who bought his 3 weeks before the sale; should he/she get the refund difference? How about 4 weeks before the sale? How about the one who bought 6 weeks before the sale? How about the one who bought 2 months before the sale? You get my drift; life is like that, there is always a "cutoff" and there is always someone who didn't make it. If they gave it to you they would have to give it to the 3 week person, etc.
It is very commonplace for a vendor to honor a price change or sale price within 30 days of purchase. It happens all the time and you know it. Last year, one vendor I deal with routinely gave me the sale price on an item several months after the sale because they ran out of the item and kept it on backorder for me. I can't think of any local vendor that does not have a 30 day policy.
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
It's unfortunate that all we're really talking about here is decent customer service. I have been in retail for most of my life, in one form or another. Either these people who yell at customers don't care about how they're perceived or they think people like/don't mind being yelled at. They also don't realize/care about the fact that everything they do in their capacity as an employee reflects on the company, for good or bad. People who take their "I make $8 an hour and I'm not gonna bust my a$$ for anybody at that rate" attitude need to realize that the place they work for doesn't exist in order to support the employees, regardless of what the business is, whatever they pay and whoever the customers are. That business is there for the owner(s) because they found something they really like to do, they happen to be good at it, they found something they can make money doing and they can tolerate it or some other reason. Either way, the company sells goods or provides services for whatever they can get in return. If the employees drive away all of the customers, who are they going to sell to/do things for? Nobody! If the corporate offices of these companies we are complaining about hear about this, frequently and loudly enough, we will see results. Their butts are on the line as much as the local managers and clerks. Part of the problem is that we can't call them 'experts' because they don't care enough to learn about whatever it is they're doing to know that much, let alone convey it to the customers without yelling and condecending. We need to let them know how bad their employees/prices/selection/policies really are. Obviously, a business needs to make a profit. They also need to compete and if they can't cut their fixed costs, manage their inventory, and be aware of their competition, they won't be able to. Rising/falling cost of goods needs to fall under inventory control because, if they're part of a large company, they can usually buy in sufficient quantity to cost average better than someone who has a single store and finds themselves in a situation of having sold all of their stock of something that has become increasingly volatile, in terms of price. Inventory adjustments are part of retail and a multi-store operation can thin out the quantities at some locations to allow extra time to negotiate a better price for future buys. Beyond price, all they have is service, selection and location. If you take service out of it and they can't compete on price, why go there at all? There's not much that's better than knowing what you want to buy, paying for it and having it show up at your door. Apparently, there's enough information exchange here and forums like this that a lot of people are making their decisions and buying what they want/need. Sorry for getting so lengthy here, but bad customer service has no excuse and has been really pi$$ing me off for a long time. It's really not that hard to do well but it does require some conscious effort at times when it comes to problem solving and conflict resolution.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 1/21/2005 3:31 pm ET by highfigh
It is all about customer service. Fortunately the Rockler store in my area understands that in spades. They are all woodworkers; reasonably knowledgable and always courteous and helpful.
They will warn me if a sale is coming on something I'm about to purchase. I was complaining about pricing on an item and they told me what it would take to get a discount (sounded like the 10% "pro" discount). Sale prices are often competitive with the Amazon's of the world.
Of course, with every store there is the low-quality line to be cautious with, but they also stock the quality line - stuff no one else in the area (other than the Woodcraft 24) miles away stocks. So, I'm just really greatful they are here.
In our area it was the Woodcraft that forgot the customer service mantra. New owner now and the word is that it has returned to it's normal form.
To not totally hijact the thread - yea, I agree that a 30-day price protection is a completely reasonable expectation.
"I make $8 an hour and I'm not gonna bust my a$$ for anybody at that rate"
I did that! Well, the 8 an hour and after 40 years and MUCH better wages they still let me go for four kids I trained!
Sorry.. I go to Rockler all the time.. Nice folks but then again I'm sort of Human and knows NOBODY KNOWS EVERY THING.. I don't know... I can deal with, BS gets me really pissed.. NOT to ROCKLE... to ALL that serve the public.. But then again I'm old and....
Edited 1/23/2005 4:13 pm ET by Will George
If you were over 40 and they let you go so they could hire younger and pay them less, that's a textbook age discrimination setting. Totally illegal. If they didn't make it worth your while when they let you go, you have legal ground to stand on if you decide to pursue it. I still go to Rockler and Woodcraft too and the BS is bad, but when they either decide that you aren't going to buy anything before a word is said, they have no choice but to fail. Also, if someone in that position doesn't know something, instead of saying "I don't know" and leaving it at that, they should at least say that they'll find out and get back to the person who asked the question. It's amazing how much I have sold by making call-backs and asking if they needed any other info. There can't be that much going on at those stores (I go there at all different times, on different days) that they don't have time to get info and make their calls. They don't need to call in 15 minutes, but they should be able to get the info in a couple of days, then make an effort to call the customer within a day of that. If they won't get the info sooner, they can let the customer know that, too. Just making an attempt to help is better than what I have experienced. The last 2 times I tried to get info from Woodcraft, after two weeks, I went/called back and they either hadn't found out yet (basically had forgotten, judging by the hemming and hawing) or they couldn't find the paper with my name and what I wanted to know about. It's not very hard to have happy customers. It just takes a little thought and effort.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Price protection and rainchecks may or may not be "commonplace", but they are not legally required, and are issued strictly at the pleasure of the retailer. Same thing with returns and exchanges.
If you don't like these policies, then just take your business elsewhere. They don't have to do these things, and approaching them with the attitude that you're somehow entitled to them from the retailer will tend to make matters worse.
Discounts are courtesies, I'm not sure that's what I would call returns. They don't absolutely have to allow returns but since most places do, they do, too. For that reason, I would agree that it's a courtesy but if they don't allow returns and exchanges on unopened or unused items, they'll lose business. If something has hidden defects/damage, the product didn't live up to the claims or when it's a case of bait and switch, something needs to be done. Buyer's remorse is one situation that nobody wants to be involved with, from either side. Price protection is a bit different. If a sale starts within a specified time frame after someone makes a purchase, a lot of stores will make a price correction, especially if they have a policy to match prices. I don't remember Rockler ever having a price-match policy. Since people from all over the country are complaining about the way Rockler's people treat customers, it almost seems that yelling and being rude are company policy. I know everyone has horror stories about bad customer service in all kinds of stores but since Rockler is the goat here, we can be specific. There are legal aspects to the returns, too. In most states, the policy needs to be posted in plain view of the customers in the store and on the receipt however, the customer needs to read the fine print. In some states (WI being one of them), off-site sales are subject to a 3 day window where the customer can return for any reason. Off-site meaning away from the store location, like when the Woodworking Show is in town and the local stores have a booth at the venue. We just need to be selective about where we buy goods and services. Getting bad customer service repeatedly and expecting it to change on its own is just a reason to complain. If nothing is done about it, it won't change.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
About a year ago I had an incident there with one of their sales, they didn't have stock on hardly anything, so I asked for a raincheck. Wrong thing to do. They claimed that the sale was only for stock on hand, even though it didn't say anything like that in the flyer. I had 2 salespeople yelling at me, refusing to look in the back room even though the 3rd, most experienced guy there said they had boxes in the back room, or even issue a rain check. The 3rd salesperson did do a special order slip for me so I could get the items at the sale price when they came in. 2 months later I got a call my items were in, I drove down - 60 miles- & they couldn't find my special order. Needless to say I was a bit peeved. One of the same salespersons involved with yelling at me previously yelled at me again, wouldn't get ahold of the manager or leave a message for him. I left messages for the manager many times.
Anyway, the manager wouldn't call me back so I sent the customer service an email with the incident & received a call from the district manager, then the store manager.
Needless to say they lost my loyalty & trust as a customer. Now I get about 4 catalogs in the mail a month. Guess they miss my volume of business.
Bill..
I find it all over.. If I have anybody that is a 'Grump' or otherwise I just try to be nice to them and smile.. I make SURE they see my FAKE smile... I think SOME get the message!
Wow,
what a differance!
My Rocklers would have given me the refund without blinking an eye and been very polite about it too!
Nah I don't work for Rocklers or own their stock or even shop there that often.. but my Rocklers is so superior to woodshafters.. "er" crafters,....
My favorite store is 7 Corners Hardware in St. Paul.. Amazon prices, local service, and a great staff, well most are there is one real jerk but I avoid him,...
I wonder if that's what you got, A bad employee or a good employee having a bad day.. It could be that location..
"... I wonder if that's what you got, A bad employee or a good employee having a bad day.. It could be that location.. "
Several online employees reading the same lines from their 'customer service' manual. If there were a local store here, I would have gotten my money back. Guaranteed.
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
I had a similar experience. I ordered an item online that several days later went on sale.
I called customer service and they said since the item had shipped that no adjustment could be made. Taking my case to a supervisor did no good.I then called a store and asked if I purchased something and it went on sale the next week could I get a refund for the difference. They sounded totally clueless to what I was asking.I called another store and they sounded intelligent and helpfull and said no problem with a receipt.I then e-mailed Rockler customer service and told them about what the stores and the call to customer service told me.They promptly E-mailed back(the next day) and said a credit was coming and she didn't know who I talked but their policy was to refund.
As a foot note I recieved my items and have not been charged or recieved my credit yet. Possibly my request for credit delayed the paperwork.
I will still shop at Rockler. I go whever the price and items are good. I don't get upset like some do over things like this life is to short.
Bill
Please fill in the rest of the facts.
Dear Ms. Rockler-Jackson
I am writing you this letter to inform you that I will no longer be a customer of Rockler. This is what happened. I purchased xxxxx only for it to go on sale 2 weeks later. When i called and asked for a credit, I was told that i had to return the item i have(at my expense) to only have you ship it back to me.
I feel that a credit should have been given. The item went on sale within 2 weeks from the time i purchased the item. The idea of having me send the item back and then you turn around and send it back to me is ludicrous and bad business from your bottom line perspective. No you incur the cost of receiving my return, issuing credit, placing the item back into the warehouse, only to take a order, pick, ship, deliver acknowledge and bill my credit card again.
I would like to give you a fact from a recent Wal-Mart study. For each customer that they loose due to poor customer service it will cost the company $250,000 in sales over the future life of the customer. In addition, you should know the cost to acquire a new customer vs keeping one that you already have.
In conclusion, please have me taken off you mailing list
Thank you for your time, Sincerely
xxxx
address and phone
Let me know how it goes. I used to do retail warehouse distribution work and then did consulting in the field.
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