Rojek, Laguna or ??? slot mortiser
dirtstirrer
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Any of you have an opinion of slot mortisers that you would share? Specifically the Rojek VDA 316, or that newish Laguna “Platinum” Chinese made outfit?
Both have presented themselves to me in a manner that is hard to refuse, should I take one of them or spend more? The Rojek is used, the Laguna is new.
I have no experience with any slot mortiser, but as I’m about to start on yet another honey-do, it would really be helpful.
Steve
Replies
I have one as an attachment on my 'nearly new' MiniMax combo machine. It is a snap to mount (though heavy) and looks as though it will handle anything. But - I have not had an occasion to use it yet.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Nearly new? If you need some help putting the miles on it...
Always thought it looked like MiniMax makes good stuff. When you fire that mortiser up, let me know what you think.
Steve
I'm getting plenty of miles on the jointer and planer - and am well satisfied. What a joy to have a 12" jointer - it looks like a carrier deck. But I haven't had a project recently with any mortice work. I'm sure they will come in a bunch.If you are headed East from Nebraska, bring your wood. You are welcome to try her out. By the way, ask MM for their video. It will demonstrate the morticer - as well as the sliding table saw. jointer and planer.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
If I ever get off this dang farm, I might take you up on that offer! I already asked MM for the works on tool info. I nearly bought a bandsaw from them a few years ago, but a monstrous old Oliver came along.... I was really impressed with the quality of their tools at the time. I've always wanted a big jointer, Oliver 166, but haven't came up with the right excuse yet. By having the big jointer, do you use it more?
Steve
No - I don't use the jointer more often - but I like being able to 'slant feed' certain pieces now that I have more width.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
I watched David Marks (sp?) doing that the other night, would be nice to have that option. My 6" Jet requires a pretty short piece of work to run diaganal...Steve
If you are looking for the real thing in mortisers then check out this video.MAKA also makes a smaller machine that has a hand operated lever.Super clean mortises, really fast.http://www.solidwoodmachinery.com/IM000042.AVIhttp://www.solidwoodmachinery.com/J.P.
Your just causing trouble:) a whole world of neat tool I did not no about thanksTroy
A friend of mine had a small MAKA mortiser that he picked up at auction for cheap,$200.00. Most folks are unaware of a lot of technology that can be had for reasonable prices.When I first saw it in action I thought about my crappy hollow chisel mortising attachment I had on my drill press, and cried.J.P.
Ahhh, jeeeeezzzz, that's cool!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks J.P., now I have to redefine everything I thought I knew about mortising machines. What a machine! That thing is awsome. Do you know what they sell for? Probably a tad more then ten or fifteen Lagunas?
Steve
Here is a used on for sale on EX-Factoryhttp://www.exfactory.com/seephoto.aspx?showall=yes&recnum=MO%2D010383You may also find them for less at auction.However the tooling can get a little pricey. Still, with a small assortment of chisels it is not a bad way to go. But, really made for a high production environment.J.P.
Maka's are nice but you still need to deal with making the tenon. That's the advantage to the slot mortiser. Loose tenons are simple and fast ot make. Plus you can buy the Domino ones to save time or just buy dowels. The alignment is perfect using the slot mortiser. If you want to set back an apron just slip a shim under the appropriate piece.
I do like the Maka but it's more production oriented and not as user friendly as the slot mortiser. I use 2 flute HSS endmills and they cost me $5 to $15 for US made. Sharpening is around $5 each so some are throw aways. I can buy a lot of bits for the cost of one Maka chisel.
"Loose tenons are simple and fast ot make. Plus you can buy the Domino ones to save time or just buy dowels."
Lee Valley also sells loose tenon stock (you can get tenons larger than the largest dominoes that way).
View Image
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44779&cat=1,250,43217
-Steve
I can buy push sticks but would never do so. I can make a bunch of tenon stock before I could phone the order in.
You can easily saw tenon stock to thickness or plane a bunch to size. You don't need to radius the edges either. Square or just simply chamfered stock is fine. Been doing so for over 25 years.
The big advantage of mortising all the rails and stiles is the mortise pockets are more prcise in location than trying the machine tenons on the ends of boards. Plus the insides of the mortises are of a better finish than you could get with a chisel or Maka mortiser. It's a no brainer overall.
Anybody want a good deal on a Rojek 316 VDA? The guy who has the one I was thinking about lowered his price, of course after I had committed to the Laguna. I'll be glad to pass along contact info.
Steve
Dirtstirer,Did you purchase the Laguna? I've been considering the same unit for a while now, but I was kind of hoping to see one in person before I pull the trigger. Please let us know how you like it.Matt
Edited 9/28/2007 12:33 am ET by OldGreen
I have, and I'll sure let you know how it runs. Beet harvest is coming up the 6th of Oct, and will last most of a month, so I hope it gets here before that. Not much time to play during that, but I sure will try!
Have you talked to the guys at Laguna? Not real pushy, which I like, and I think I actually got an honest review from them. Richard is who sold me.
Steve
Yeah, I've been talking to Roy down at Laguna, a nice guy, although he would rather see me but their $3,500 machine. I'm just wondering if this is really a case of you get what you pay for. Besides I would rather put the extra money towards the LT18 bandsaw.Matthttp://www.oldgreenwoodworking.com
I wouldn't pay too much attention to sales people. I worked for a tool dealer as a tech and with the sales guys if we carried it, it was the greatest tool on the planet. If we lost the line it became total junk! They are biased. I'm sure the Taiwan will work fine. If folks are having such good luck with the Grizzly G0540 I can't see how you can go wrong.
Laguna used to advertise their mortiser from their combo machine as a standalone mortiser but stopped advertising it. It's still available but they would rather sell bigger ticket items.
<<It's still available but they would rather sell bigger ticket items.>>Rick,I have a friend who bought the Laguna several years ago, and as I recall, he had to fabricate a base stand for it as it didn't include one as part of the package. Is that your understanding of how this product is currently equipped? I've been wanting to go the loose tenon route for some time, and thought the Laguna would be a good purchase. My friend uses a router in his, but I'm thinking I may be able to hook it up with a motor/chuck arrangement for use with end mills. Your thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.Mike
I would like to chime in here again and just say... I have been using the Grizzly for several months. It is an excellent tool. Been pushing it hard and so far the motor bearings are as tight as ever. The mortises I'm getting are true and repeatable. The X, Y table movement is smooth and without play.
I haven't used or seen the other machines mentioned here. Their fit and finish may be better ( hope so considering the price difference ) . The Grizzly could use a few improvements but really has it where it counts. But then again there's that Grizzly name............
Paul
Hey Rick, couldn't you just rip tenons with the table saw to fit the Maka? Might actually be easier it seems. The machine does look less flexible though, great for a hundred of one particular setup, but not really a hundred different settups on one or two projects. Steve
The Maka is typically mounted vertical so you have the same issue with a chisel mortiser. It's impossible to cut only mortises on rails and stilesas you would on a "horizontal slot mortiser" which is the key to it's simplicity and speed. In a matter of minutes you can machine all the mortises on your rails and stiles compared to just doing the mortises on the stiles and trying to machine the tenons on a router table or even double blades on a shaper. Then you have the cheek cuts to make.
I agree that the maka is more for production. However it is not as difficult to set up as one may think. My friend had a couple of nice jigs on hand for doing angled mortises that he would attach to the table.However, for one off pieces it may be a bit much. But for a set of chairs I think it would be swell.Do you use the grizzly horizontal boring machine that is so highly regarded as a mortiser?J.P.
I do not use the Grizzly G0540 but have talked to a dozen or so folks who do use it and I did see the potential when it was first listed in the catalog over 2 years ago. Whatever works is fair game. I've been advocating the slot mortiser for over 25 years.
The Maka isn't hard to use but the Slot mortiser is much simpler. A gade school kid could learn it easy.
JP, I actually read your post last night and went to that same machine. Cheaper then I expected. Someday, after I get my new shop built. Could be a while. Steve
Slot mortisers are a favorite topic of mine. First leraned of them in FWW 25 years ago and they still never covered the subject in depth. I have access to the Rojek and think you will find the Grizzly GO540 to be just as sturdy and priced a lot less. Haven't used the Laguna but have used Griggio's, Paolini and many others including converted handmills (another article in FWW that was only briefly covered).
http://www.atlanticmach.com/standard/misc.html
I'd stay away from the Rojek. Kind of cheesey for the money. All other brands are good in my experience. Personally I'd stay away from the Multi-router types. There's also the Invicta, Sicar, Griggio, Sicma, Paolini, etc. I find the commercial slot mortisers with the lower rpms are much more useful as all around drilling machines as well. Nice to be able to do dowel drilling and general horizontal drill operations. The Festool Domino overlaps in some ways but cannot replace a true slot mortiser. It's nice to be able to do 1/2" mortises. I find the HSS 2 flute endmill work better and are cheaper than the Euro solot mortise bits. Obviously you cut only mortise pockets and insert loose tenons. I've seen some misguided folks try to machine the tonons on a slot mortiser. That's defeating the whole point of the slot mortiser. Turning a simple fast operation into a complicated slow operation.
http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/reviews/articles_729.shtml
It's common to mount the slot mortisers that come on the combo machines as stand alone units. Many use a router but a standard motor and jackshaft running at 3,00 to 5,000 rpm is a much better option. The Laguna slot mortiser table is around $600 and comes with the chuck. Laguna doesn't list it on theit site anymore as they would rather sell a whole machine instead of a part of one. You have many more options than you realize.
Edited 9/25/2007 9:13 am ET by RickL
Rick, I'll respond more in depth tonight, but curious as to your take on which part of the machine moves. The cheap Laguna moves the table, and the expensive Laguna moves the cutter, if I understood the salesman correctly. Is there a clear benifit to the costlier approach?
Steve
The most common is the table moving. Neither one is necessarily better. Both types get the job done and that's the key. A step up is where you can angle the table or head for doing angled mortises. One can improvise with a fixture so don't let that impede your decision. I'm not one to get huing up on the idea of buying the best tool once. I'm always swapping and upgrading or even downgrading tools.
I'm leaning in the direction of the new Laguna. If table move vs. motor move don't make much difference, then $1404 to my door for a new machine dosen't seem to far out of line. The Rojek is used, looks like pretty well used, and I will have $1600 or so into it to get it here.
I'll gladly pay more if these two are not very good machines, but my wife really wants that dining set, and unless I get to making an effort, she'll probably spend way more then I would on any mortiser.
Steve
The Taiwan Laguna looks good for the money. I have access to the Rojek Mortiser at a school I maintain the machines for and it's OK but I think the Grizzly G0540 is just as good a fit and finish as the Rojek. The only downside is it's only 1 hp but have heard mostly positive comments overall.
The Grizzly G0540 has been out about 2 years now and was designed as a doweling machine but by sheer accident it's set up just like a slot mortiser. Fortunately any slot mortiser will work as a doweling machine so that's a plus.
The slot mortiser is perfect for production as well as one offs in the the middle of a production run which is a big plus. The Maka style is nice but the tooling is pricey and not nearly as flexible as a slot mortiser by any means.
Rick, can you chuck router bits into a slot mortiser? Seems like a great way to cut sliding dovetails if you can. I'm going to try the Laguna I think.
The Griz looks like a good tool, but I like the idea of a top tier company slapping their name on the side of a Chinese tool. Seems to me that they would inheriently maintain better quality, so as to not "dirty" their name. Nothing against Griz, but Laguna positions themselves as selling better tools then Griz. Griz sells bargains. Really good ones, usually.
Good point about the tenons with the Maka, but if I ever find one cheap....
Steve
I still think a router table is better for sliding dovetails. Router bits don't work too well at 3,600 rpm but there are some dovetail cutter for steel but they have too many flutes. You want HSS endmills with 2 flutes. You can use carbide but it's a lot more expensive. I get hundreds of slots from HSS.
I thought the Rojek was a good price for the machine. I saw one and tried it out at AWFS and at $1900.00 it's half the price of the major european models. I agree it's a little lighter and smaller than the big boys but Ithought the machining was nice and the movement was good.
We plan on getting one for our school shop by the end of the year.
To answer the posters original question I thought the Laguna Chinese import ( I also saw at AWFS) was really a sloppy machine with mediocre at best fit and finish. At half the cost of the Rojeck I wouldn't think it'd be wort the hassle of getting it in shape.
I haven't seen the $995 Laguna slot mortiser in person but have have access to the Rojek at a school where I maintain the equipment. Fit and finish are ok but czech motors are kind of bad. I'd have to say the quality is comparable to the Grizzly G0540 doweler which is an acceptaqble slot mortiser as well. and is around $400.
http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/reviews/articles_729.shtml
What ever slot mortiser you get will be a great tool to use. Long neglected and misunderstood tool that will simplify things.
The Laguna does look interesting. I've heard the opposite on fit and finish from the wood journalist Ellis Wallentine.
Hi Steve,
I bought the Grizzly horizontal boring machine several months ago. It works absolutely great as a slot mortiser. Plus it's about $400. Quite reasonable.
Check out post 36263.1 There are a few pictures of the machine and mortises I made with it.
Paul
Paul, I guess I'm not familier with that particular Griz tool. I'll check it out, price sounds REALLY good!
Steve
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