I have two roller stands. One has rollers and the other has bearings. Even the heavier one always seems to want to fall over at the worst time. Maybe I just need to build an outfeed table for the tablesaw. I really have no faith in these things. Do you all share this impression?
Frank
Replies
Yeah, mine fall over too. I have a couple of cement blocks holding mine down, but a warped board exiting the planer can still knock it over. I gave up and built an outfeed table for my table saw a long time ago and only use the roller stands for portable things like the planer, long stock on the jointer etc.
mark
Edited 5/23/2003 8:31:18 PM ET by markwood
If you've got room for an outfeed table, it's certainly a better mousetrap. I've got one of those new fangled flip top deals for the portable saw. It's better than a swift kick in the shorts, but only about $25 better.
"The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
I bought a 10' bed of rollers and mounted legs on each end. Worked like a charm and it only cost me $25.00 CDN.
Scott C. Frankland
have you checked out the ones by shop fox. they look pretty good. also rocklers has some that clamp to your work bench that might be a option for ya.
Darkworks: Its all 'bout da squilla
Frank
I threw my rollers away. I tried one of the flip-top stands from HD and it was great. I went and bought 3 more. Use them for long stock ripping on the TS. I have 48" of extention behind, but when I rip 8' or more I use the flip-tops front and rear. Also use them on the jointer and router table with over 6' pieces.
Regards...
sarge..jt
I find that stands with a single cylindrical roller needs to be aligned perfectly 90 degrees from the stock's direction of travel or it will pull the stock aside and/or want to tip over. So I made a "C" cap for my stand that has the same laminate on top that a good extension table would have. This way the stock simply slides over it with little friction. The cap can be easily installed or removed.
I've also noticed that many stands have a base more wide than it is long. If you turn the base 90 degrees, and can re-orient the roller/bearing, then the stand will have a more stable stance to resist tipping over. You just might have to make a few pin holes if your stand height is held with a pin. With most square-tube stands the roller post can easily be rotated to the most advantageous direction.
4DThinker
What type of leg configuration do they have? One of mine has a vertical leg and an angled leg. If I forget and put the vertical leg on the wrong side (the furthest side from the saw) it will tip over very easily. You're right, though, they're just not stable enough to take any significant irregularities.
Discouraging that the bearing stand has the same problem. Overall, it seems the stands can be so tedious to set up exactly at the right height that an extension table would be easier in the long run.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've never liked the things. I had solved the problem with aligning them to my table saw by attaching a bracket to them and the table saw. But I was always fiddling with the things.
I built an out feed table. It works much better. Less time fiddling.
That reminds me.... garage sale next month. Think I'll toss them in the pile.
Len
Biscardi -
If you build a good outfeed table for your table saw, you'll wonder how you ever got along without one. It will make your cuts, especially long ones, easier and safer, as you won't be trying to keep the wood from crashing to the floor after the cut.
http://members.aol.com/Alamaral/Outfeed.html
Here is a link to Al Amaral's home page where he gives a full description with photos of his shop built (table saw) outfeed table. I've built a series of units like these for the cabinet saws in my shop - they are rock solid, and can support even the heaviest wood stock.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
I am currently building a similar version based on Jim Becker's design: http://sawsndust.com/p-outfeed.htm
There is no reasonably safe way to cut full sheets of plywood (even with help) with out a sturdy outfeed table. I have a couple of those fall down roller stands and they just seem to contribute to problem. Especially when they begin tipping half way through a cut!
Hello Joe,
Jim's design is rock solid, you will love the (outfeed) table when its finished. One element that I've built into all of the outfeed tables in my shop is a torsion box table top. This creates a tremendously strong work surface, that is highly resistant to twisting or flexing.
I use a panel saw or a shop-built circular saw panel cutting jig to cut sheet of plywood, but have substantial outfeed tables on all of my cabinet saws because they offer a greater amount of safety and security (not having to worry about your freshly cut exotic hardwood crashing to the floor over the edge of the saw).
In a pinch, a roller stand roller makes a great tool for squeezing out the air bubbles between to large glued up pieces!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Dan,
You're right about the torsion box, I made my router table using that technique and it couldn't be flatter or more rigid.
Yesterday I installed 2" angle iron to the cabinet and cut all the birch ply to size. I always run the 2" strips of ply which form the webbing through my planer on edge to guarantee uniform pieces. Plywood is generally not good to your blades but I'm only removing 1/32" or so from each edge.
It also gives me an opportunity to use my pneumatic stapler and brads which is much more fun than countersinking screws!
I am also incorporating a poplar 2 x 4 lying flat with just the top ply to sit on the Biesemeyer rear angle iron since the torsion box thickness will exceed the 2" angle iron. It also allows me better support to use leveling bolts to adjust the outfeed table to flush or just below the table saw. These bolts will also extend through the rail to secure the outfeed table.
Joe
A major problem seldom discussed regarding roller stands, Frank, is their propensity to cause kickback. A stage up from roller stands are outfeed tables kitted out with a whole raft of rollers.
As we all know, most, but not all, Americans are extremely lackadaisical (sp?) when it comes to safety by omitting guards and other devices, such as splitters and crown guards on table saws. The roller outfeed deal looks attractive, and used with normal safety equipment they can be helpful. However, what rolls one way, can often roll just as easily back to where it came from.
If, in rolling back to the source, the cut piece catches those almost always exposed rear upcutting teeth of the sawblade, a seemingly harmless piece of wood turns into a projectile travelling at a couple of hundred miles per hour aimed roughly at the saw operator, ha, ha. Slainte.
Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Richard,
Even with my guard, spliter,short fence and pawls the roller stand makes me nervous. They are unstable and if they aren't set exactly the height of the saw they are of little help or impede the cut. I hadn't thought about the kickback issue, but I think you are spot on about that also.
Regards,
Frank
Frank
Even though I have a riving knife, crown gaurd, short fence and a rear extention (a total of about 50") rear of the back saw blade teeth, I ocassionally need extra support. I did a project for work recently where I had to rip 10' to 12' stock.
I had thrown the rollers away on Richards suggestion back when I added the crown gaurd after he mentioned the possible reversing. The tilt tops have a large 16" or 18" surface and are friction instead of rollers. They have a wider base and adjust much easier than the rollers. I opened the shop door behind the saw and set up three of them coming off the back of the extention. With no problem I was ripping 12' stock with no assist. Also used them for in-feed and out-feed on the router table and jointer with that same long stock. Great...
Are they perfect. A notch shy, but a 100% improvement over rollers. A permanent extention is the perfect solution, but one that is not always available to all of us because of space limitations. Charles comment about the ply bases would be a big improvement also, but again the extra space is not always there. I just fold them up and hang them on the wall by the TS till I need them next. ha....
Luck...
sarge..jt
Sarge
Know the space problem.
I'm adding a section to the shop to gain some more space.
Am in the process (This weekend) rearranging the shop to gain some
footage to rip longer boards on the table saw.
Also, experimenting with arrangement to accommodate the extra space
and new lathe.
I thought you were coming up to help me paint (ha ha).
Jeff
Jeff
I eliminated the long rip problem by placing the TS rear about 4' from the sliding garage door. There is about 24' in front of the saw. With the tilt tables in the rear, I have all I can handle.
I would love to paint, but the "first lady" has handed me a list of summer projects she deems priority. Micro-wave table, a new bed and an oak kitchen nook table. I'm sure the bed will turn into a matching bedroom suite if my instincts are correct.
Would late November be too late on the paint?..ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Sarge
Not if you don't mind painting in the cold.
I just moved everything around in the shop.
I now have 10 ft front of and behind the table saw.
Great in cold weather (or hot with the bugs out), so I don't lose all
the heat by opening garage door.
Once the new addition is done, I'll be able to do 12 - 14ft without
opening the door.
More if I open garage door.
I only use the roller stands in front of the TS, and use an outfeed table behind.
Jeff
Jeff
Not a real problem in Atlanta. If the door is open for 5 minutes or so, takes about that long to recover with the gas heater. Rarely get below 45* in the winter in daytime and below 30* nites in dead winter. There are exceptions ocassionally.
Good luck with all the new space..
Regards...
sarge..jt
If you don't want to build an outfeed table, Sarge has the right idea. The RIDGID Flip-Top stand available at HD is a slick set-up. It has a four-point footprint and an adjustable table top. They go for about $30.
Several options are available
1: Ask lumber yard for scrap MDF or MDO that comes on sheet stock to protect the lift. They give it to me for free for such projects. Build undercarraige for MDF and then either attach legs with adjustable height capability or attach permanant height legs. (spray with poly to protect from guys who put their morning coffee on it)
2 : The roller should be situated so that the board does not hit the the face of the roller as it comes off the end of the table. (It is always hard to defy Newton). Also, roller stands with four opposing legs also work well but situate the stand so that the legs are not perpendicular to the stock being fed over them but 45 degrees to the stock (this makes the stand very sturdy) and less likely to tip. Rollers with bearings along their length are also less likely to fight any material rolling over them, as they are more dynamic in motion than a single roller.
I finally broke down and built an outfeed table. Bolt a pice of angle iron on the rear of the saw. Weld up, or fabricate from wood, a set of "legs" like an "H", with bolts on the bottom to level. Attach a board to the angle iron, and screw the legs on. Then take a straight edge off of the TS table, for level, and you're good to go. Depending on your hardware, it takes about 3 min. to assemble or disassemble it, and strorage space is moderate. Cost should be about zero.
Frank, I thought you were starting to use handtools? FWIW, you've got a golden opportunity to take a crack at a rip saw with the long stock you're talking about.
In fact, it was a situation like yours that finally pushed me over the edge to going all hand tools - ripping stock for a set of church doors - big, heavy, long, and a dangerous, awkward, mf'n procedure on ANY size tablesaw. I cobbled up a couple of very short saw horses, threw the stock on 'em and hopped on for the ride. The work got done in much less time than I had anticipated.
I figure that's how they built the doors for all those Medieval churches in France. Good enough for them, good enough for me.
I started a thread earlier about why weren't all power tools the same height..
everybody poo-poo'd me but when ever you have long stuff to handle by yourself it would be wonderful to shove a jointer as an out feed and the planer as the infeed.. or something..,
In the mean time I learned the quick way to bang together good infeed/ outfeed tables.
Nail gun and string are the secrets..
leave the legs long and just bang them into the side of the board. brace them if you are gonna use 'em for more than a couple of times. Use the string to ensure that you are level and flush..
pull the nails and stack the boards when you are done with 'em..
In a pinch I grab auto wax (turttle wax) and smear it on the surface to help stuff slide..
I still have a couple of 'em around.. they are handy to stack wood on when you paint it, careful they tip over easily.
I had same problem so hinged a panel of 3/4" ply to the back edge of saw table, fitted it with a hinged, adjustable length leg with crutch tip, and glued laminate to the top. It hangs an inch off the floor in the 'down' position; you do have to get the top dead flush with the table top, and disc sand a little curved bevel in the near side edge to avoid even the slightest stock hangup. Cut clearance for your fence if needed and you're set: no skewing as with rollers, good support, out of the way when not in use, and cheap to make. Much better!
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