Replies

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Nov 03, 2003 02:29am | #1

   ROS will give a swirl-free finish, which is not the case with finish sanders.  In fact, my little Makita finish sander hasn't been used once since I bought my Bosch ROS.  So I guess my answer as to when I'd use the finish sander is, never.

   Jeff

   
   

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   Edited 11/2/2003 6:31:05 PM ET by Jeff K

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 03, 2003 03:01am | #2

   Mark

      Do they still make quarter-sheet finish sanders?

      I'm with Jeff K. on this and I think you will find a lot more that will agree. A quarter sheet could be used to get in a square corner, but so can sanding by hand with a block. By hand probably does the better job, leaving the quarter-sheet sort of say, temporarily un-employed. ha..ha..

   sarge..jt

1. 
   ToolDoc | Nov 03, 2003 05:58am | #3

   SARGE: Do they still make 1/4 sheet sanders??  Guess you "Old Guys" missed the Lowes sale on the PC 1/4 sheet sanders for $40.00  with a Delta / Lowes Rebate for $40.00 = Free Sander.. Too bad guess you were resting in your Gerry Chair..LOL

   EDIT=Price & Rebate was $49.99

                                                   ToolDoc

   Proud Member of the Delta & Klein Tradesman Club & Milwaukee HD Club & Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..

   A Non ~ Member of the Knots Bandsaw Guru Club..

   Edited 11/3/2003 10:11:55 AM ET by TOOLDOC

1. 
   DustMaker | Nov 03, 2003 08:15am | #4

   Actually it was a $50.00 rebate and they sold them at Lowes in Atlanta for $34.05 :-) 

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 03, 2003 08:59am | #5

   Doc

      Dave is correct on the Atlanta price. Did you buy one? Do you already have one? If not, do you want one. Got one that has been used once. If you like them and don't have one, let me know and e-mail your address.

   Nite Doc...

   sarge..jt

1. 
   ToolDoc | Nov 03, 2003 06:15pm | #9

   SARGE: I know your gettin old  but i will refresh your feeble mind here..I was the one who first posted about the Lowes Rebate on those PC 1/4 sheet sanders.. do I have one  why of course I do hehe..also loaded up on a few extras for xmas gifts.. PS I see nothing wrong in using them along with the other sanders in my workshop aersonal.. Thanks for offering yours but really don't need it..

                                        ToolDoc

   Proud Member of the Delta & Klein Tradesman Club & Milwaukee HD Club & Knots Bad Boys & Girls Club..

   A Non ~ Member of the Knots Bandsaw Guru Club..

   Edited 11/3/2003 10:17:51 AM ET by TOOLDOC

2. 
   JeffKurtz | Nov 03, 2003 09:18am | #6

   Sarge,

   Now that I think of it, there is a way to get a swirl-free finish from a finishing sander - don't plug it in.  Just put in a new quarter sheet of the grit of your choice, and sand away, just like using a sanding block.  (Speaking of sanding blocks, I bought a couple maple ones from Grizzly.  Nice.)

   Jeff

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 03, 2003 09:38am | #7

   Jeff

      Now that's a clever idea. If Doc doesn't want mine, I might use it for an anchor for my jon-boat. Then again, it has a chrome exterior. I could tack weld it to the hood of my car to give it the classic look of the 50's and 60's. ha..ha..

      I haven't seen the Griz blocks. I usually just build my own to get various shapes to have available.

   Have a good nite, Jeff...

   sarge..jt

3. 
   BG | Nov 03, 2003 02:45pm | #8

   MarkH,

   I have been using the 1/4 sheet sander for about 18 months and, thanks to Tooldoc, now have two..the second one being for free.  I've never used the ROS.  When I researched the topic 18 months ago 'they' said it was a bit too aggressive.  In actuallity, my two 1/2 sheet sanders from the 50's had died and I just wanted something to tide me over...the PC 1/4 was the right price. 

   I was and am extremely impressed with the power/effectiveness of the 1/4 sheet sander.  Perhaps the ROS is much better, it is certainly well endorsed on this thread, however, for finishing, I'm not sure I'd want something more aggressive.

   I get confused about this swirl free thing.  I plane and scrape my wood and the 1/4 sheet moves at 16,000 giggles that are 1/16" long....where are the swirls coming from that everyone is avoiding with the ROS?  I finish with the block to keep the edges sharp...

   I use the rolls of sandpaper with the sticky back with my 1/4 sheet sander...fast, cheap...and in a roll form the sandpaper is easily stored.  The roll is also handy for scary sharp strips.

   So, to answer your question, if I had both which would I use?  Since I am evolving away from the use of sandpaper anyhow, I'd probably find more use the the 1/4 sheet sander....good luck with your decision
1. 
   Scrit | Nov 03, 2003 06:28pm | #10

   The ROS does produce a sort of swirl, but it's a lot less obvious than the orbit marks (swirls) left by an orbital (1/4 sheet) sander. They are there, though, get a x4 or x5 loupe out and you'll see what I mean. And they can "shine" through some finishes.

   I've never heard a finish ROS being described as "aggresive" before, but there are ROSs out there with a 5mm orbit which are designed for finish removal.

   For speed the best way to get into a corner is the Fein triangle sander - it isn't an orbital at all, the abrasive describes a 3 degree arc so it leaves almost no marks. It's also a LOT faster than hand sanding

   Scrit

1. 
   BG | Nov 03, 2003 07:00pm | #11

   Scrit,

   I guess where I'm having trouble is understanding the swirl thing.  The ROS has a swirl pattern of 3/32" or 5/16"....and the quarter sheet has a 1/16" pattern (in the PC340)...so I guess the ROS is larger, but its motion eliminates the swirl?

   I read the "aggressive" thing on line...did not know what it meant either.  When I did try the 1/4 sheet finish sander it seemed 10 times as effective as my old 1/2 sheet sanders were...especially in removing pencil marks.  I assume aggressive means the ROS would cut pencil marks and the like even faster than the 1/4 sheet sander...but that is all a guess... 

1. 
   Scrit | Nov 03, 2003 07:29pm | #12

   An ROS orbits in two directions simultaneously, the pad rotates and describes an eccentric orbit offset from the main centre of rotation - bit of a difficult thing to explain in words - why not take a look at the Festool web site follow the navigation to Products/Animations/ES150EQ (second from left on row 2) which helps explain it a little better whilst the Rotex 150EQ animation (to the left of the ES150EQ) shows both a random orbit (really an eccentric motion) and an orbital motion (the Rotex was designed for body shops and does both). So while an ROS does leave swirl marks they tend to resemble a "J" or hockey stick and are much smaller and less noticeable to the human eye. I took a lot of persuasion when I bought my first ROS, but now I have two and I wouldn't be without them (and yes, they are Festools, but hey I do work at WW for a living...)

   Scrit

1. 
   Elcoholic | Nov 04, 2003 12:21am | #13

   The swirl-free-ness of an ROS also depends on how well the brake works.  Just try to use an add-on contour pad sometime.  When the ROS is off the work that sucker will really get to spinning and leave some serious swirl marks when you bring here in for a landing.  My newer Makita ROS is much better in that regard than my 3 year old Bosch ROS but the Bosch is more powerful.  I use the Bosch for 80, 120 and 150 then switch to the Makita for 180 and 220.  I still prefer my PC 1/4 sheet sander for small roundovers and inside corners.  And the Fein Multimaster is great for nooks and crannies, but it's scratch pattern stands out like a sore thumb against the ROS so some hand blending is helpful.  The PC profile sander I bought turned out to be a complete P.O.S. and never gets used.   My really old Makita 1/4 sheet sander (no dust pick-up) only sees duty when it's time to take the Scotchbrite to the cast iron machine tables.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

4. 
   art | Nov 04, 2003 02:47am | #14

   Perhaps I have a special sander or my eyes are shot, but "swirls" have not been a problem with my PC 1/4 sheet finishing sander.  Art

5. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Nov 04, 2003 08:55am | #15

   I use both.  I have Bosch 1295 ROS and PC 340( now I have 3).  Each has its strengths  and weaknesses.  Wouldn't give up either one. 

1. 
   MHargrove | Nov 04, 2003 11:21pm | #16

   I have both as well.  I bought the ROS, the 1/4-sheet was a gift.  I was just trying to understand when to use one instead of the other.  When you say there are strengths and weaknesses to both, can you give me some examples?  What makes you pick up one to use instead of the other?

   -M.

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Nov 05, 2003 01:59am | #17

   Mainly the application dictates my choice.  The ROS tends to take off more material more quickly.  If I am doing face frames/ glass door frames/frame & panel doors, I will use the 1/4 sheet to avoid rounding over the stock.  Any location that I have a routed edge detail, I will typically use the 1/4 sheet sander. 

   I will also use the RO to about 150, then switch to the 1/4 sheet for finish of 180 or 220. 

   In drawer boxes, I generally stick with the 1/4 sheet, easier to manuver, gets into corners. 

6. 
   Paul_Snyder | Nov 05, 2003 02:16am | #18

   I use the ROS for all pre-finish sanding, except for the areas that have to be sanded by hand (then I use a hand pad and the same H&L paper). The only time I use the 1/4 sheet sander is to sand the interior of drawers bewteen coats of finish. The square shape fits nicely into the corners and saves sanding them by hand.

   The PC 1/4 sheet sander is a lot less prone to leaving swirl marks than a couple other brands I've used; it's the only one I use now.

   I've used the PC-333 ROSs for years and don't have any trouble with swirl marks. The key to avoid the swirl marks is to move the sander at the right speed. Move the sander across the wood too fast and it will produce swirls. The coarser the grit, the slower you have to move.

   Paul

1. 
   Sicilian | Nov 06, 2003 06:40pm | #19

   When you all are referring to the 1/4 sheet finish sanders by Porter Cable, are you talking about the 1/4 sheet palm grip finishing sander kit with dust collection or the Speed-Bloc quarter sheet finishing sander?

   Other than dust collection, is there any difference in performance between the two?

   Thanks,

   The Sicilian

1. 
   jc21 | Nov 06, 2003 07:35pm | #20

   No experience with the 340K but I've used others (DeWalt, Makita) and prefer the 330P Speed Bloc. It's been around a long time and is well proven and reliable. I find it's a lot smoother than the others and more comfortable to hold and use for long periods of time. Downside is that it costs $30-35 more than the others.

   Edited 11/6/2003 11:41:00 AM ET by jc