I am just finishing up a smallish, shaker end table of Bolivian Rosewood, with a Lacewood top. This is my first experience working rosewood, and wondered if anyone had a list of dos and dont’s with respect to finishing rosewood. Normally I would spray with shellac, dewaxed, and then do the top only with a couple of coats of varnish, rubbed out, for durability. Then wax.
Will that common strategy work for Rosewood? Any adhesion problems I should expect? Do I need to rub it down with acetone first? I hope not, but will if I have to. I don’t spray laquer (shellac is adventuresome enough in my basement).
Thanks for any help.
PS — This wood absolutely ate the edges off of my regular chisels, my Jap. chisels, and my plane irons, both regular and A-2. Brutal, and a long sharpening session lies ahead. That said, it is a beautiful wood.
Alan
www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Edited 6/7/2004 1:38 pm ET by s4s
Replies
I use dewaxed shellac and lacquer, but I spray it on.
Maybe to late now, but Bolivian Rosewood (Machaerium Schleroxylon or Machaerium Acutefolium) is a bad allergin to some (namely me). It doesn't get you at first but each time you are exposed to the dust, you get a little closer to the day when you'll get a skin rash akin to poison ivy. Definitely not good for your lungs. Mine covered 50 percent of my upper body and took a month to go away. Wearing rubber gloves and a dust mask with good DC control is highly recommended. It is a beautiful wood.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
Some people do report problems finishing rosewoods Alan. Your strategy seems sound enough starting with dewaxed shellac. I've not had a problem in the past using various shellacs either sprayed, ragged on, or french polished style on rosewoods, and Santos (Bolivian) Rosewood in particular. Of course dewaxed shellac is a pretty good base for just about any film forming polish or varnish over the top.
Still, if you want an oil varnish top coat for specific reasons, you should be able to eliminate the shellac altogether if you want to. Just put the first one or two coats of varnish on very thin-- say about 10%-- 20% varnish in mineral spirits to get a good initial bond. Use gloss all the way through and achieve the sheen by switching to the sheen of your choice for the last coat, or mix two sheens together to get a custom sheen.
This is similar to the strategy I use when spraying various nitrocellulose based laquers--- a thin coat or two followed by a couple of full strength coats seems to work fine.
As you suggest, you can rub out varnish to whatever sheen you want at the end, but you'd want to stick with gloss all through in that case. I'm not fond of rubbing out if I can avoid it, but only because of the waiting and the time/work involved.
Always a good idea to do a test finish on a bit of scrap, especially as the varnish might darken or amber that lacewood more than you'd like, but that may be the effect you're after.
I do find the shaker end table in Bolivian rosewod and lacewood description, er--well, intriguing, ha, ha. Slainte.
Richard,
Thanks for your comments. If the lacewood darkens a bit, that will be fine. That was my strategy on the lacewood top on the queen anne side table on my web site, and I like the color just fine.
I will post a pix when done. I added an ebony quirk bead to the bottom of the apron, and am cockbeading the drawer also, in 1/8" ebony. Not a lot of contrast, but my bride asked for it, and she doesn't ask for much! Boy I like to make drawers. How is that for sick.
I also dislike rubbing out varnish, for the reasons that you mention, and because if you are not careful, and rub through the top coat, you need to add a coat to get back to where you can start over, with the attendant delay, etc., and varnish does not dry quickly in the Philadelphia summers. Still, seems to me that a cup of coffee on a bedside table is appropriate, and my experience with shellac is that it won't take this treatment without showing its age far too quickly.
Mike Planewwod
Thanks for the tip on the dust situation. Knock on wood, but I have not yet found a wood that I am alergic to, although the smell of zebra wood is so foul that I hate to work it, and rarely do so. Makes vomit smell nice, to my nose at least. It is the worst. Also, spanish cedar is great with a cigar, but I made a series of 5 garden benches of it, and I think I could taste it for 3 months after I finished. Blegg. Even a good cigar would not make it go away.
So, just got a commission for a garden bench, this in a Japanese style, and so got the client's approval to use Paulowinia instead. Interesting wood, and it will be my first real exposure to it, other than a bit of a scrap to see how it weathered, and to see if the copper rivets would stain it, which they do, but so little it is not offensive. I love the weight of it. My wife helped me carry 3 large planks of it to the basement, and neither of us broke a sweat. Now that is a good wife! In reasearching this wood, I think Iread that it is only twoice as heavy as balsa, but 4 times stronger, and rot and bug resistant. I will epoxy the bottoms of the legs anyway, to slow the wicking.
I am hoping the client likes my version of a Jap. style (he has approved it already) since I have a 4' by 4' slab of Zelkova (Jap. elm) that is crying to be a coffee table. Burl, crotch, the whole 9 yards. Still working on a base design, but the ticket on the table will be well above a modest garden bench. I have never seen, or workied, Zelkova, so this is a season for wood firsts.
AlanAlan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
I've built a few small items out of a Bolivian wood called "Pau Ferro", which I understood was also called Bolivian rosewood. It's a very nice, hard wood which polishes to a high luster...I've also used it for a few knife handles and simply polished the wood using a 1-micron belt on my 42" sander. No other finish was applied, and the handles look as good as new after several years of use.
The most annoying aspect of using pau ferro was the smell when freshly milled. It reminded me of manure, taking me back to my boyhood days on a dairy farm.
Regards,
Ron
By the way, the so-called Bolivian Rosewood is not a true Rosewood. Ask Jon, he knows all about species and such.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Hmm, Mike? I assumed Alan was using Bolivian rosewood as one of the names commonly used for Dalbergia nigra (or possibly Dalbergia stevensonii which grows in Belize and I know as Honduras Rosewood or nogaed.)
I've heard D. nigra called Brazilian rosewood, santos rosewood, Bolivian rosewood, rio rosewood, bahia rosewood, and jacaranda.
It certainly can get confusing, ha, ha. Slainte.RJFurniture
This "Bolivian Rosewood" came from a shop that I bought from an estate of a deceased furn. maker, who had not worked since the late 1980's, and so I have been assuming that the newest wood there dates to 1987 or so, and likely earlier. In chalk, the owod so so marked. I was not familiar with some of the woods that I snagged, and so sent a few pieces up to Jon Arno, who confirmed that what I am using for this table is in fact Bolivian Rosewood. He noted that there are approx. 20 rosewoods. I saw on the righteous hardwoods site that Bolivian Rosewood is not a rosewood at all, without citation.
I will say that I recently cut up some Brazilian Rosewood (I think) that I had bought as part of a wood purchase from a retiring chairmaker who had been in business with his father as a chairmaker, in Philadelphia, until his father passed. Ralph, my seller, was 70. He called me as he had taken a job as a repairman to stay busy, and needed to replace some vertical edge banding on an antique french secretary. So, as a favor, I cut up a bunch of vertical grain wood, which Ralph identified as Brazilian Rosewood, and which Ralph had sold to me, as part of about 1500 bf of this and that. I mention this becuase to my nose, the rosewood for and from Ralph had the same perfumy odor as the "Bolivian Rosewood." And this, in my mind, was consistent with what a fellow who trades with South America told me about the Braz. Rosewood of today. Most of it is cut and boiled in large vats by Amazon natives, the oil scraped off the top of the cauldrons, bottled, and sold to the French perfume industry.
With all of this said, it must be perfectly clear that I am only a beginning learner in the matter of rosewoods generally.
BTW, in no way, to my nose, was the smell that of manure.
Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Edited 6/9/2004 9:09 am ET by s4s
Alan, Roninottawa's "manure" comment was in reference to a wood sold to him as pau ferro. It's doubtful that it was actually a rosewood (Dalbergia spp). Pau ferro translates simply as "ironwood" and it is a much abused common name. In fact, it is sometimes seen in reference to members of the purpleheart genus; Peltogyne. Literally all of the true rosewoods have a floral scent and an oily feel, although they vary widely in terms of color.
The Machaerium genus also produces woods that are similar to rosewood in terms of density, texture and color...so the trade often sells them under common names designed to "borrow" some of the prestige of the true rosewoods. For example, the species; Machaerium acutifolium is often sold as a rosewood counterfeit and it ranges throughout the Andes, from Colombia and Venezuela southward into Bolivia. There are also other members of this genus in southeastern Brazil. They are all very attractive woods and good substitutes for rosewood in many applications, but they have an entirely different and harsher scent...a scent that is actually more like that of walnut than it is like any of the rosewoods.
Edited 6/9/2004 10:31 am ET by Jon Arno
Yep, the so-called Bolivian Rosewood has a sharp unplesant smell, to me. While Brazilian Rosewood is just the opposite. I can't detect much odor at all from Cocobolo. I'm not very sensitive to the dust from Brazilian Rosewood or Cocobolo but Bolivian Rosewood does a number on me.
By the way, a prescription salve called ELOCON is a miracle drug for the rash. Once I get a hot spot on my skin, Elocon will make it go away within 24 to 48 hours.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Jon
I forgot to mention that the oily feel is definitely present in my wood.
BTW, is "Bolivian Rosewood" actually a known rosewood, as opposed to simply a borrowed, prestigous name?
And, of course, thanks so much for the earlier help with the wood identification.
I amy send you another scrap, when I get far enough down in the pile. It may well be brazilian rosewood. If so, that would be great as there are about 9 2x8's of it, 11' long.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
If it is Brazilian Rosewood, then 132 BF of it would be worth at least $10,500.00. The going rate now is around $80 a BF for 4/4 stock. Higher for 8/4. Bolivian Rosewood sells for about 1/5th of that. Brazilian Rosewood has been on the import ban list for something like 20 years. Only thing coming out of Brazil these days is reclaimed stumps and mostly in small turning squares for pool cues handles.
A book matched back for a guitar out of Brazilian Rosewood will sell for $500 - $700.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
In light of that comment, I think I will dig a bit more quickly. I did know that it was banned for export, but did not realize that there was any available at all. Teh stuff I bought from Ralph is so small in quantity that I doubt there is more than about 2 b.f. in two smallish boards, one of which is a half of a branch, it looks like, about 4" in dia., and perhaps 18" long. Very rich, purple color and grain.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Alan, the wood you sent me wasn't Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia nigra). It appeared to be the one typically sold as "Bolivian" rosewood...which I believe is actually one of the Machaerium species. Both of these genera (Dalbergia and Machaerium) are legumes and they are fairly closely related within that huge (Leguminosae) family. The trees, often just oversized shrubs, have similar foliage, flowers and podded seeds.
I think most American woodworkers have the misconception that the beautifully pigmented wood imported into the U.S. as various rosewoods just happen to be the colors the various species produce as normal heartwood. Actually these vividly colored timbers are cut from the very oldest and most decrepit trees which tend to develop darker pigments only with extreme age...and even then the logs for the export trade are highly selected.
There are several reasons the Traditional Brazilian rosewood (D. nigra) is so rare and has now been taken off the market. First of all, it's been an important export for about three centuries and its native range was the coastal forests of southeastern Brazil where Brazil's population is now most dense. Only remnants of those forrests remain...and trying to develop rosewood plantations is pretty much impractical (or at least would be a questionable, very long term investment), since producing vividly pigmented rosewood lumber would take upwards of a century...and probably longer.
The typical American attitude about what to do when something gets scarce; "why don't they just make more of this stuff?"just isn't a viable option when it comes to rosewood. We've pretty much lost Brazilian rosewood (at least for a very long time) and most of the world's other true rosewoods will be following suit over the span of the next few decades.
Jon
I must have misstyped a post. I did understand you to say that what I sent you was Bolivian Rosewood, not Brazilian. After that wood mailing, I found some additional wood at the bottom of a pile (now in my garage, but still at the bottom) which I think may be Brazilian, and I think I might send you a piece if you wouldn't mind.
Thanks for all of the rosewood information. An excellent lesson, of course. I wouldn't be playing with stuff in this price range but for a good buy I made from the estate. Now I am afraid I will become addicted.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Alan, Brazilian rosewood is typically darker, heavier and more oily than what you sent me. If the other rosewood you have meets with those attributes, it could be the real McCoy. It hasn't been off the market long enough to dry up the entire supply...and especially if what you have came from someone who was buying in the 1980s.
If that's the case, I certainly won't discourage you from sending me a sample...In fact, take a couple of extra days and find a really big shipping box. :O)
Seriously, I have a few board feet of genuine Dalbergia nigra left from several boards I bought upwards of 25 years ago. I use it for dulcimer bridges and nuts, which require only a cubic inch or so of the stuff per instrument...so, I'm not a heavy user.
Here's a pic I took just now. Left to right is Bolivian Rosewood, Brazilian Rosewood, Bolivian Rosewood, Cocobolo, and Brazilian Rosewood. Not much difference! Bolivian Rosewood is more consistent in appearance than the others - always kind of a dark grayish brown. Cocobolo and Brazilian Rosewood can vary from light tan to almost black. Cocobolo can contain some really flamboyant colors - yellow, purple, brown, black, tan. What I show here is darker than usual Cocobolo.
The third from the left may be a difference variety of Bolivian Rosewood. It is darker and has less pronounced streaks. It does have the exact same smell, however.
I left the file purposefully large for better detail.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Teh Bolivian Rosewood, on the far left, appears identical, including the sapwood, to what I am now using, and calling Bolivian. Thanks fo the pix. I will try to dig through the pile this weekend and post a pix or 2 or my rosewood horde. I have a smallish piece of cocobola, which is nearly pure black, with a med brown stripe. It is in the rough, so I think I will surface a face first. This is a great thread; I have learned much about woods which are new to me.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled