Replies

1. 
   AndyA | Jan 23, 2005 08:46am | #1

   Revakh,
   From what I have read, the round dogs make it easier to work with circular or odd-shaped pieces. Also, there are a lot of commercially made fixtures that fit 3/4" round dogs. Veritas carries a few that seem to be widely acclaimed. The bench I am about to build will have both.
   Regards,
   Andy

1. 
   gdlevy | Jan 23, 2005 09:08am | #2

   thanks Andy. Veritas makes both, and the prices are about the same. Seems to me that it would be easier to MAKE square ones. Maybe the best is to use both on the bench.

2. 
   mike4244 | Jan 23, 2005 06:57pm | #3

   Makes no difference round or square. If the bench is made and there are no holes, round is easy, square holes a lot of work. My bench has square holes, I dadoed the pieces before assembling the bench. The dadoes are square with the top. A better way is to angle the dado 2° towards the vice end. This keeps the board from lifting when applying pressure with the vice.I solved this problem by making the dogs 2° out of square.

   mike

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 24, 2005 12:39am | #4

   Makes no difference round or square  Just me.. 

   Round makes a a bigger depression on the stock than square, I think, but then again I'm old and forgot...

    

1. 
   mike4244 | Jan 24, 2005 04:04pm | #5

   You can make a round dog with a square head or vice-versa.

   mike

2. 
   gdlevy | Jan 26, 2005 09:51am | #6

   do you have any experience with hold downs? the ones in the catelog (lee valley) are round. how well do these work?

1. 
   mike4244 | Jan 26, 2005 05:22pm | #7

   No, if you are referring to the type of holdown that is L shaped and you tap down.Although this is an old design ,I believe it would be easier to use than the screw down type I have.

   mike

3. 
   DonC | Jan 26, 2005 08:17pm | #8

   I put one round hole in the middle of my square bench. Into this hole goes a short pipe connected to a pipe flange. The flange is screwed to round plywood with a diameter that fits my bench. At 4 places on the circumference are straight casters. I can now place a real heavy cabinet ect, on the plywood/caster/pipe/flange and have a lazy susan that can really handle heavy stuff. Works great!

   Don

1. 
   mvac | Jan 27, 2005 01:44am | #9

   With due respect to those who prefer square dog holes, my experience is that round holes have all of the benefits of the square ones plus the ability to pivot to hold angled or out-of-square work. Also, the Veritas Wonder Dog, while IMHO very pricey at $33, is an extremely versatile tool with applications I haven't even figured out yet. But its versatility rests on its ability to pivot in a round dog hole.

   With respect to hold downs, I have a couple of larger, metal-sleeved holes in my bench into which I can insert these great hold downs that are length-adjustable, riding on the same kind of bar as a bar clamp, and which screw down to immobilize the work. In fact, these would more aptly be called hold-down clamps, because the only difference between these and a bar clamp is that instead of an opposing pad to hold the work, the resistance comes from the leverage of angling the hold down in the hole. (I hope that's even marginally clear.) I much prefer these to the "tap-in" hold downs, because they don't mar the work, and therefore don't need cauls or spacer blocks to protect it.

   Btw, Don, I think your "lazy susan" is a great idea! You might consider submitting it to FWW, ShopNotes (I just got an $85 check for a tip they're publishing), or one of the other mags.

   One critical question: How big are the diameters of the hole and the inserted pipe?

   Thanks, and hope my 2 cents was useful,

    Mitch

   "I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."

1. 
   AndyA | Jan 27, 2005 07:13pm | #11

   Mitch,
   This sounds like something I'd like to add to the bench I am building (along with Don's "Lazy Susan" - Thanks, Don). I'm not clear on how the bar clamp is attached to the metal dog hole insert. I suppose you could also do this with a pipe clamp fixture. If you have time, would you be willing to post a drawing of your set-up?
   Thanks for the idea.
   Regards,
   Andy

1. 
   mvac | Jan 28, 2005 12:47am | #12

   Andy,

   You're wish is my command. I'm attaching 3 pix - I hope. "HoldDown1" is the one I described; "HoldDown2 and Wonder Dog" has a more traditional hold down, but shows the Wonder Dog, in one of it's many contortions. "Full Bench" gives you an idea of where they can be positioned on the bench. I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I bought the Sjoberg top, but I did build both the base and the sliding deadman. And, "HoldDown1" came with the top.

   Now I have to decide whether it's worth retrofitting the existing top with some German bench screws I bought a long time ago to make a sholuder vise and a better tail vise. My gut tells me to start from scratch. I always wanted to build that Franz Klaus bench in Scott Landis' "The Workbench Book," but time constraints being what they are...

   Hope this helps,Mitch

   "I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."

   
1. 
   AndyA | Jan 28, 2005 07:10pm | #13

   Mitch,
   Thanks a million for taking the time. Good pics. Looks like you have yourself a good bench. Are the metal inserts glued into the holes or are they fastened some other way?
   Thanks again.
   Regards,
   Andy

2. 
   mvac | Feb 03, 2005 07:52pm | #14

   Andy,

   Sorry it took so long for me to reply. The metal sleeves in my bench look like they're glued in, and ever-so-slightly recessed - maybe a 16th.

   Hope that helps,Mitch

   "I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."

3. 
   AndyA | Feb 04, 2005 07:48pm | #15

   Thank you Mitch. One thing I have not found in any of the workbench books or articles is information on dog hole expansion due to wear. I guess it must not be a big problem but the metal inserts would certainly be a big preventative method.
   Regards,
   Andy

4. 
   mvac | Feb 06, 2005 04:02am | #16

   Andy,

   Funny you should mention that. My dog holes actually seem to be getting tighter, or at least it's harder to push through the Veritas brass dogs I've got. You would think that my basement shop would be less humid in the winter, and therefore contraction would make the holes bigger if anything. I'd roughed them out with a 3/4" spade bit when I first got the top, and now I'm having to do it again.  Wierd.

   Btw, these metal-sleeved holes I mentioned are probably twice the size of the dog holes, at about 1.5". Finally, the hold down I showed you that came with the Sjoberg bench can be purchased on their site for $25. Not cheap, but I've found it to be a very versatile tool and might choose to pick up another one myself.

   Cheers,Mitch

   "I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."

5. 
   AndyA | Feb 06, 2005 07:16am | #17

   Strange. I wonder what the dynamics are behind the holes getting narrower this time of year. Good to know. Thanks for the input.
   Regards,
   Andy

4. 
   sedna | Jan 27, 2005 04:26pm | #10

   I have both round and square dogs in my bench. Why - because when I built the bench, I made square holes, but later I wanted to add more and the round was easy - a drill versus drill and then chop the holse square. both work the same. The Lee vallet round dogs have a flat on one side at the top.
   Keith