On November 18th I was putting a profile on some Tiger Maple. There was a lot of chipout so I decided to do a climb cut for the final psss – about 1/16th of an inch.
I succussfully routed 10 feet of maple when the piece caught and pulled my hand in the cutter ( a small stile cutter). This is the result after 6 hours of surgery, a vein graft, a nerve graft and a skin graft – and 5 days in hospital and $15,000 bill frm the hospital where I had surgery.
The other wounds show where the grafts came from:
top of wrist (missing photo) nerve graft
back of wrist – vein/artery graft
elbow – skin to cover hole.
Replies
Thank you for the reminder of the dangers of climb cutting. Can you be more specific about what safety devices you were using (feather boards, push blocks, etc.)? I'm particularly interested to know what you would do differently upon reflection, as in:
- never climb cut?
- never climb cut swirling grain stock like tiger maple? straight grained stock only?
- use more safety equipment? of what sort?
Thanks again, and I hope you heal up quickly and recover fully.
I don't think I would climb cut again - perhaps with a power feeder - that I would need to test first - not sure it would work.
We had featherboards installed but not for the climb cut - "it was such a light cut - how could it grab?"
We should have had feather boards and been using "Push" sticks to control the piece.
BTW, I live near Baltimore and was able to go to the National Hand Center for reconstruction. They performed a revolutionary procedure to re-supply blood to the finger.
I will try and attach some phone photos taken before surgery. They don't show how much flesh was "evulsed". About 3/4 the thickness of my ring finger was removed over about 1 inch.
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I think that people need to look at this as an eye opener. I've always looked at the dangers of woodworking as little sticky notes in ones head that you can't ever forget. And the most unusual but true observation I've made is that the ones that hurt themselves usually are the most experienced; not the least experienced. My philosophy or scope on it is that the inexperienced ones are scared, always when using new machinery. Every time they use the machine they are twice as careful to check guards, fences and to watch their fingers and eyes. Experienced wood workers often get comfortable (hell I do) with machines and use them without even "thinking" about it. I see guys all the time humming boards thru the jointer or ply/mdf thru the table saw as though it's butter and sometimes aren't even looking at the machine that much. Blade guards, what are those things that you guys use? Not in the shop I work in! I've grown acustomed to using less and less push blocks and sticks and using my fingers but I draw the line at certain points. Not one single piece of wood is worth sacrificing anything on your body. Not teak, not genuine mahogany, not even gold cored plywood :). You mess up a piece of teak, so what it's $50 down the drain, wood grows on trees, fingers don't! Be careful guys, you don't have to be scared of the machines but don't EVER get comfortable with them. The day you do is the day you're going to lose a finger. And when all else fails, buy a sawstop!As for climb cutting, a lot of us do it, I try not to when I can, it's dangerous and increases chance of kickback. This thread reminded me to not do it again. Hope all heals well and you can take it as a lesson learned and be a stronger wood worker because of that. Mind those fingers, you've only got 10 of them!
The world's most prized antiques do not have perfectly glass-smooth mouldings.
This quest for out-of-this world surface perfection, detracts, not adds to value.
Hand feeding material is inherently super-dangerous as you've learned. There needs to be something between your hands and the wood. Stock feeders, push stick/push shoe. Something besides flesh and bone.
Edited 12/7/2006 10:14 am ET by VeriestTyro
Sorry about your accident. I appreciate your willingness to share what happened. I am not sure I understand what you mean by a "climb cut" using a router. Could you please expain? Thanks and get well soon.
Stated as simply as possible, climb cutting is when you are cutting WITH the rotation of the bit instead of against it as you would normally do - i.e., right to left when handheld or left to right in a table. This is dangerous because the bit can grab the piece and cause you lose control of the router or the workpiece. Here, as I understand it, he was running a piece through the table "backwards" and the bit grabbed hold of the wood - I assume it self-fed the wood (i.e., the wood disappeared as the bit flung it through the feed zone but his hands which had been pushing the wood forward and towards the fence lurched into the spinning bit)
Taking Womble's post in the spirit of being educational for the rest of us.......1/16" inch seems like a bit much for a final climb-cut. Is there agreement??
Other precautions....I have done very few climb cuts, and each one has probably taken a few hours off my life simply because they make me nervous. When I do make one, there are two precautions I take. One is to put an obstruction of some type between me and the bit. If the stock is narrow, I can put my GripTite Magnetic Featherboard on the steel router top such that it would deflect my hand away from the bit should the stock take off, and my hand follow. Stock that's too wide for that requires an L-shaped "hood" over the bit that sticks out aways from the fence and is long enough on the infeed side (left when climb-cutting) to keep my flying hand out of the bit. Or an extra deep vertical featherboard on the infeed side.
The problem with climb-cutting is that it's already hard to keep the stock against the fence, and if you try and do it with your hands you're increasing the chance that your hand will follow the stock as it shoots up the fence out of control. (Featherboards if at all possible). The second precaution, and a weak one at that, is to mentally rehearse what would happen if the stock took off, and how I would let go of the stock. A slower bit speed helps with a fracton of a second more "recognition time." forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I agree with the previous remarks about climb cutting, and especially about the dangers of the router.I would also point out that figured woods are particularly prone to misadventure in my experience. I was cross-cutting some birdseye maple on a RAS, and holding the piece against the fence very firmly. A small knot caught and pulled the piece back against the fence, which cracked, shattered and pulled the piece, firing it out the back of the saw- and my hand almost with it. I was holding a bit too firmly, but managed to release before getting injured. I now replace the fence more often, and use clamps when crosscutting figured wood on a RAS.As has been said before, it's always important to think about where your hands will go if the work is caught or your hands slip- one reason I don't rip on a RAS.Best of luck for a speedy recovery to W...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Girl,
Your post and its advice is most sensible and illustrates that climb cutting can be accomplished safely, if you understand the mechanics and the necessary precautions to avoid any of the likely risks manifesting.
The trouble is that it is easy to become blase if you do manage to perform something like a climb cut N times with no adverse effects. Like the drivers who tailgate at 90mph on the motorway and get away with it 99 times, the 100th time comes as a surprise, asuming they actually wake up in the hospital.
Climb cuts are so pernickety that they are the perfect example of why safety aids and procedures are necessary for even the most experienced woodworkers - as they are for the less obvious (but still possible) risks using tablesaws or even the gentle bandsaw.
Lataxe, lover of hold-downs and featherboards.
I use alot of "visualization" when I'm using the tablesaw or the router. People may scoff, but it's a habit I developed when working with horses, especially young horses, which will do things quicker than the eye can see. Where should my body/hand be and where should it absolutely not be. With the table saw, it sometimes means figuratively "anchoring" my hand to a specific spot or area of the table or fence. To some extent on the router table too.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've been following this router injury incident very closely and I was hoping someone would use the magic word "visualization". One reader finally did. People who have studied how the mind works have concluded a thing or two about how important it is to visualize the activity in your mind before you do it. During the Olympics, you will notice quite often that many of the athletes are standing with their head down as if praying just before their performance. Yes, some of them may be praying, but the majority of them are visualizing what they are about to do. This brings all their know-how (i.e., training and whatever else they do in preparation for this they are about to do) to the fore and instills a sub-conscious calming effect. Weightlifters especially do this because a bad lift often means injury if the coordination is off just a little, or technique is not what they've been practicing. I had a flight instructor who always said "if you're in doubt about something, don't do it until you have visualized the outcome". In a book written by a psychiatrist years ago, the author explained that in our mind, where we think our "conscience" lives, we actually possess a sub-conscious thought process, which will give us the correct guidance about 95% of the time. Most people call this ESP but he calls it our "intuition" and if we follow this intuition, we will do the correct thing most of the time. In dangerous situations, we really need to think and visualize about what we are about to do. How many times have we all heard people say (or actually said it ourselves), "Golly, I knew I shouldn't have done that." What he or she is actually saying is that "I heard this little voice telling me not to do that but I did it anyway." Sorry to be so long and boring about this but "visualizing" is about the second most important thing we can do, "thinking" of course being the most important. My very best wishes to the fellow who "experienced" this unfortunate incident.
Oh, yes. I'm a firm believer in it! I don't really think that much about doing it, it's just become second nature. Twenty-plus years riding and training horses, using tractors and power augers and such wonderful life-shortening things......if you don't visualize (conciously or not) you don't do too well!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The only climb cutting I have done is with a hand-held router restrained with a trammel, but I think I was taking about a 64th, and made several decreasing radius passes.
I am wondering that if one were climb-cutting on a router table, if in addition to featherboards and a push stick, one might locate a stop of some type on the output side that stops the material about an eight to a quarter inch past the cutter. That way the board couldn't launch.
I also like Big Nat's idea of working on the output side, although it implies plunge cutting, and therefore no featherboards. I also think that Routerman's sleds are a great idea as well.
As far as any of using our lightning-fast reflexes, a 1/2" diameter router bit spinning 15,000 RPM has an edge speed of 393 inches per second. Granted an incredibly fast 0.2 second reaction, the bit edge has rotated 79 inches. Give the bit 90% slippage on the board, the board has still advanced some eight inches before you start to react. (I have no idea what is a reasonable value for slippage, or even what might be appropriate reaction time for an alert operator shoving hands toward a spinning cutter. Given 0.5 reaction and 85%slippage, travel is 29"; given 0.2 and 99%, travel is an inch. Given the posted pictures, the operation is dangerous, regardless of the numbers.)
The best advice I've taken from Knots is "where will your hands be if the board suddenly disappears?"
Womble, I hope your recovery is fast and complete. Thank you for sharing, and reminding each of us that safety is important to our well-being.
I'm glad someone (you) responded to the depth-of-cut issue. 1/16" seemed like tooooo much to me.
"if in addition to featherboards and a push stick, one might locate a stop of some type on the output side that stops the material about an eight to a quarter inch past the cutter. " Seems like you'd need to know exactly that path the piece would take during it's flight. And, while the piece might not "launch" completely, your hand (depending on where it is when the attempted flight initiates) may already be in the cutter when the stock comes to an abrupt halt (or explodes on impact).
I prefer to simply obstruct the cutter. A broken finger or even wrist is, IMHO, preferable to ground meat in my fingers/hand. The GripTite featherboards take a terrific amount of force to move on a steel surface, so they make a great wall between me and the bit. All-in-all though, I'd prefer to avoid climb cutting whenever possible.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I agree with FG about the amount of the cut. 1/16 on a profile bit is a pretty good bit of material removal. I actually think that a back cut is safer in a hand held operation because both of your hands are on the router and of course a cut of .015 or less would certainly help things. The other option is making passes using the standard direction and take several passes of very light cuts, you may still get a fuzzy edge but you can clean up the fuzzys faster than you can heal a hand.And Heh! Lets be careful out there!Ron
thanks
Condolences on your most unfortunate accident! I do hope recovery goes well for you and you have reasonable function in the hand down the road. Climb-cutting is often presented as a panacea here at Knots when people are having trouble with squirrely grain, and it's important for people to know how dangerous it can be.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I knew it was dangerous, I heard the little voice, " if it auto-feeds, it'll pull your hands" but stupidly I continued.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
I didn't even use the little rubber-faced push sticks.
<I heard the little voice>It's funny how the more experienced we become, the fainter the little voice can get. I try to constantly remind myself that the little voice is always right, but sometimes...
Sorry about the accident, I too once had a voice tell me not to do a cut on a table saw, I also did not listen. Went to the ER only 3 stiches on one of my fingers. I was doing a breadboard edge with a dado blade, I could have set it up on my rotuer table and preformed the operation safely. I now listen very closely to those voices. If you don't think it is not safe, DON"T DO IT!!!
Greg
Sorry to hear about your accident. I had the EXACT same thing happen to me in March - less the surgery, nerve grafts, skin grafts etc. My thanks to the BC medical system for having a top-notch hand clinic. I wound up with two fingers which, while no shorter than before, are a heck of a lot uglier. As far as climb cutting safety goes, I've found that starting the cut against the rotation for an inch or so and then climb cutting no more than 1/2" (I mean linear - as in along the length of the board - rather than depth of cut) at a time to be relatively safe. Starting the cut forwards and taking small "nibbles" means if the piece tries to auto-feed, it runs out of wood to grab and allows you to keep your hands out of harm's way. Also, leaving extra length on the workpiece, when possible allows you to keep your hands on the "push" side of the bit. That is to say the side of the bit where the work would wind up should it grab thus pushing your hands farther away from the bit rather than drawing them towards it. This does, however sometimes leave a slightly rough surface. To compensate, I give the piece one final pass against the rotation of the bit and clean up any inconsistencies with a scraper.That being said, I ignored my own advice and had an accident anyways.
I don't advocate climb cutting and do it as infrquently as possible. I hope, if climb cutting is the only possibility, that this technique helps keep your fingers attached.Edited 12/6/2006 1:07 pm ET by BigNat Edited 12/6/2006 1:08 pm ET by BigNat
Edited 12/6/2006 1:14 pm ET by BigNat
I'm always willing to learn; especially when it comes to safety. Why do you feel that doing a breadboard edge with a dado blade was dangerous? Was it the size of the piece that concerned you? John
John,
To this day I don't know how the accident happened. I was lowering the piece of wood over the blade and the next thing I knew was finger was in the blade. The size of the wood was about 24 inches long and about 3 inches wide. I was kind of new to woodworking at the time and it would have been easier to use a 1/4 inch router bit and do a plunge cut. Just before it happened the little voice said this was not right but you know how things go.
Greg
Greg,
I think that your still not knowing how your accident ocurred is a very significant point. A lot of accidents happen because we do things without understanding all the risks of the process and what the mechanics of those risks are.
I remember an article in (I think) FWW some time ago in which a teacher demonstrated the mechanics of kick back on the TS to his pupils, using pieces of polystyrene instead of wood. He used various incorrect feeding techniques, left off the splitter and so forth. The TS launched the polystyrene, which allowed everyone to see what actually happens without risking injury.
Perhaps we could ask FWW to arrange a few more demos of that kind - eg showing what can go wrong with router-use, including climb cuts.
Knowing the mechanics of these risky processes makes it a lot easier to avoid or manage them.
Lataxe
That little voice is ohhhhhh so important. Not to be ignored again, eh? I guess we all have a little bit of that juvenile "I'm immortal" in us, no matter what our age!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Womble,
So sorry to hear about your injury and I hope your recovery goes quickly and well.
The table saw gets so much of the bad press on safety issues and it's easy to forget that all power equipment can cause injury. I rarely climb cut on the router table, and with a much lighter pass than 1/16", but I'll probably think twice before I use the technique again. I hope your hand heals quickly.
Mike
Sorry about the accident ! But I had to ZOOM past your graphic pictures, a quick glimpse was enough of a reminder. You might post your misfortune in the "New to woodworking"
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Very sorry about your accident, but also grateful for your post. I had a much lesser experience a couple of years back on the table saw only leading to some stitches...but scared me into reality about what could be. Since then (and seemingly always in a hurry to get the most of my shop time) I have been tempted to push the envelope...a little. NO MORE!
Is climb cutting easier to accomplish with a hand held router? I haven't even thought of it on the router table. I would never reverse a board through my table saw?! Can it (and should it) be done safely?
I was just about to mention hand-holding the router. I narfed my left index fingertip with my shiny new T&G bit close to 3 years ago and while I was lucky, it still wasn't whole lot of fun. Not only did it mess up my finder (see, I can't type now), it was a beautiful February day, probably 70 degrees. In Milwaukee, we take all of those days we can get. 5-1/2 hours in the Emergency area (mostly waiting), they shot it full of novocaine or lydocaine, washed it out, x-rayed it to make sure it didn't chip the bone (they have to treat that as an open fracture) snipped off a chunk of skin and gave me a script for antibiotics and Vicodin (which I didn't need). Charged me $585 for outpatient surgery to snip off what I could have done at home. I think that any climb cuts I do will either be on large pieces that I can run through with my hands far from the cutter or I'll clamp them down and do it hand-held.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Ewwww (sp?) I had a little 'incident' the other day with router table. No harm done but it scared the crap out of me.
Careful is as careful does, and pay attention to that little voice (which wasn't present, in my case, but I bet it will be the next time, LOL).
Hope averything works when you're done healing.
NOYou can make it fool proof but not idiot proof
I am absolutly amazed not to even say shocked that anyone would change blades or cutters or work on a machine without first "PULLING THE PLUG"
Agreed...though in my case, I actually finished a cut and turned the saw off and reached for the piece before the blade came to a complete stop. Stupid. Even at much lesser power. it did the job and niked of a portion of my thumb. I was new to wood working and am still a hobbyist, now having 10 years additional experience and much greater respect. I've never come close to an accident since then mainly because of that experience. I now am a faithful user of eye and ear protection and wouldn't think of working on a live tool except for intended use. Its easy to get comfortable and relax with the machinery....though point taken...I wood rather spend all my available shop time wood working than nursing a horrible wound. Lets all be careful out there!:)
It only takes a second . . .
I hope you heel up fast- and completely
Womble, sorry to hear about your accident. Were the pictures so graphic that the moderator removed your original pics? I see nothing but empty sqaures with little x's in the corner.
Edited 12/6/2006 4:58 pm ET by mvflaim
I knew I was getting too close. Many of the cuts I do in, metal, plastic etc. have to be climb cut. Work was getting too small, cuts way too close. Was just a matter of time before I would have had your injury, my condolences x the way.
Made a whole set of these sleds to keep me away, lost 75 hours designing and making the stuff but no fingers. These buggers will fixture for end cuts too, (suicide cuts on the router table).
Dangerous woodworking machines - When I use the bandsaw I remind myself of what butchers use to cut meat.
Womble,
So sorry for your injury, but thank you for your post. I have just taken up woodworking again after a 30 year absence. After six months, I've started to get "comfortable" with the router and have started leaving off the little guards, etc as they "get in the way".
Your example reminds me that they are supposed to get in the way of a flying hand.
I am reminded also of a study that I saw several years ago that said that a person's nervous system CAN'T respond fast enough to release his/her hold on a piece of wood if it is grabbed at a very high speed - the piece accelerates so fast that it has already moved past the blade before the signal to release can go from the brain to the muscles.
I'll be much, much more careful again.
Mike D
Thanks for sharing. I hope you recover well and quickly. It's probably not a bad idea for people to print one of your pictures and tack it up above the RT or TS. Kind of gruesome, but effective I bet.
This is a reminder to NEVER NEVER NEVER climb cut on a router table. I too learned the hard way--the router will pull your fingers through the blade before the nerve impulses to remove your hand reach the brain. I've got the scars to prove it.
PF,
Womble's scary accident is certainly a reminder to us all to be careful out there. But I will disagree a bit about your admonition to NEVER use climb cutting on a router table.
As Womble's story has illustrated so well (thank you for sharing Womble and here's a prayer that your fingers recover as well as they can) it's necessary to understand the risks involved. If you do a risk assessment, it's possible to implement the safeguards and contingencies to avoid horrible consequences, should the risks involved manifest. (And to reduce the risks in the first place).
Some molding cuts on a router table cause a bit of tearout as the correct feed direction is unavoidably against rather than with the grain. A final climb cut or two (with the grain) can get rid of this tear out. I have done it many times on a router table.
What you need is:
* a good quality fence, which can be finely adjusted, stays put and provides for hold downs, stops and the like to be mounted (eg in T-tracks on the fence).
* sprung hold downs, which slow the bit's tendency to draw the wood into the cutter and also act as guards, which prevent any possibility of your fingers being dragged into the cutter.
* a false fence with only the tiny amount of cutter projection showing through - ie push the cutter through the fence from behind so it closely hugs the bit.
* climb cuts of no more than 0.25mm (about 1/100th of an inch) each pass - after all, you are just removing blemishes, not forming the profile.
* a stop to prevent any launching of the piece (even though any launch will be away from you).
* use of a push implement if the piece involved is narrow (but it's best to form a profile on a wide plank then cut off the bit at the required width, with the profile on). I have a large orange handled thing on which can be mounted either a flat or right-angled neoprene sole. I also have a yellow set of adjustable plastic jaws with upright handles that can hold short pieces.
If you do these things you reduce the risk of snatch or other nasty events with a climb cut. You also reduce the risk of injury to as near zero as possible, should a snatch occur.
Lataxe
Your points are valid and it's a matter of choice. While it is possible in many situations to reduce risk, it is not always possible to eliminate risk. How one weighs the risks versus the benefits is something we all do differently. In my opinion, and it is nothing more than an opinion, the risks are far too severe to outbalance any benefit, especially when safer alternatives exist.
If trying to take off a hundredth of an inch to remove a blemish, I'd do it with 220 grit (as I do every day). It eliminates machine marks and completely avoids trips to the ER with shredded fingers. Your method may reduce the risk of injuring fingers to near zero, if you follow all the rules (especially using push sticks), but the bit could still snatch the piece and ruin it. Why not use the 220 grit instead?
My admonition is strong, but I think it is an unneccessary risk to climb cut on a router table. Knots has seen too many postings where ww'ers state things like "I just pay attention to the piece, so if it starts to grab..." By that time, the fingers have been mauled.
It is also human nature to develop habits, both bad and good.
Hold downs, push sticks and other safety devices are all excellent ideas, but if one gets in the habit of climb cutting on a table, what happens when they "just do a quick, super-light cut" without the safety tools.
I think it's better to get into the habit of avoiding climb cutting on a router table. On a hand-held router, it's different.
On a different note, what is a Lataxe? Some kind of ancient french battle weapon?
Cheers.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
sorry about your accident Womble, and I'll be praying for ya. I wanted to share my own close call. I work alone in my shop so I had a bad habit of changing blades and cutters with the tool still plugged in, thinking it's not going to turn on unless I do it. Was changing a shapper cutter and for some reason I switched it to neutral as was not my usual practice. Was a nice summer day and my shapper is by the door. My 2 year old walked up behind me and hit the switch. The bang of the magnetic switch about sent me through the roof. Learned my lesson the easy way for once. I pray your hand will heal compleatly.
Edited 12/8/2006 10:31 am ET by ffej
The common denominator in 99+% of woodshop accidents is the hand feeding of stock, which means hands on wood, not hands on push stick/push shoe, or even the use of a power feeder.
Router tables are super dangerous for several reasons - they're aren't as susceptible as a shaper to power feeders, and people are enticed to run small pieces on them (instead of moulding the edge of a wide board and ripping the moulding off on the tablesaw).
If the gentlemen in question made his moulding on a wide piece, which allows easy access for a push shoe, and then ripped the moulding off on his tablesaw this accident would not have happened. It could not have happened.
Don't run narrow pieces on a router table. Work your mouldings on wide pieces and rip them off. The narrow, unmoulded pieces that may be left over ARE SCRAP. Let them be scrap instead of turning your fingers into scrap.
Edited 12/8/2006 9:32 am ET by VeriestTyro
"Shape wide stock on the router."
This is probably the best advice I've heard. I was more concerned with cutting the pieces first to ensure good-looking figure. Had it been 4 or 5 inches wide, it would have pulled, but my fingers would not have contacted the bit.
To those that advocate climb cutting, I will never do it again. I suspect that those who advocate climb cutting will also stop this procedure once they have an accident.
This was a "mini" bit with only a small portion of the bit exposed beyond the fence. I shudder to imagine what a panel raising bit or full size lock miter bit would do.
When the stock gets too narrow to get a push shoe or stick on it COMFORTABLY then it's time to pitch that piece in the scrap bin and run a wider piece.
Don't worry about wasting stock. The stuff grows on trees. Fingers don't grow back.
If you want or need to mould every last scintilla of wood then buy some moulding planes, a Stanley 55, Stanley 66 beader (or its L-N equivalent).
Edited 12/9/2006 7:50 am ET by VeriestTyro
Womble,
I have every sympathy with your being put off by such a bad accident with a climb cut. However, I think it would be unfortunate were people to take your advice never to use the technique. Of course, anyone can choose to avoid such practices if they prefer to avoid the risk altogether, but.....
Climb cutting is safe if the necessary precautions are taken. Like any other technique involving large forces and dangerous machinery, it has to be learnt, practiced and done right.
Driving a car can be fatal but I doubt you would say that anyone who drives is taking unacceptable risks. The unacceptable risk is not in driving per se but in doing so without understanding and accounting for the associated dangers.
So, not really disagreeing with you; just saying that if WW has dangers to it (which it does) it's unavoidable to learn and control risks or we will have to avoid ever going into the shop. I agree that it is up to individuals what risks they are prepared to understand and seek to control.
Lataxe
Edited 12/9/2006 1:12 pm ET by Lataxe
This is the best advise I have read about this accident (Wombie, you have my sympathy). It isn't a matter about just climb cutting, although it is certainly a signficant factor, it is about small pieces on a router. If I have a small piece, such as a rail for a door, I use a sled that has a clamp-down on it. I found I had much more control, and could easily keep my fingers out of trouble. If I am making a molding, I do as you say, mill it, then rip it off on my band saw, or table saw. So far, so good. I don't climb-cut, its to unpredictable. So far, I could finish everything by hand that I would have climb-cut.
Fish,
Those router bits are frightening things alright - but I would still argue it's possible to use them safely, even for climb cutting. Although sanding a profile is an option it will take a lot longer and require a special profile block, etc..
But you're right to say that it's a matterof choice and one method to avoid accidents is to avoid entirely the situations that can give rise to them.
As to familiarity with a process breeding contempt (for safety precautions in this case) that is human nature - so unless another aspect of human nature takes over (a morbid fear of blood and associated pain, in my case) one nees to be vigilant with oneself.
I have to say, I have never been tempted to take a short cut in such situations; but I suppose different personalities behave in different ways.
Lataxe - The Cumbrian term for a froe (used to split and rive green wood). Cumbria is a county in the north west of England, near my home, in which there used to be extensive coppicing and the associated production of greenwood wares.
Thank you for having the courage of sharing your serious injury with everyone. Hopefully it will give everyone a wake up call regarding safety while using tools; especially power tools. Serious injury as well as death can result in a heartbeat. I also experienced a serious injury with a kick back while using a cabinet table saw. It shot a 1" piece of scrap wood I was using as a push stick into my forearm. It required 70 internal/external stitches and weeks of pain before healing. Hope you are making a full recovery. All though graphic; the photos certainly should be a warning to us all.
thanks again,
Womble, Condolences. I have a couple of questions before I give my comments.
What router were you using, hp. etc. and what size table. Was the piece 10' long, or were they short.
Did you say it was a style cutter pattern, if so what shank size.
Did you say we, so was there someone in the shop helping you?
Did you take those photos, or was that done at the hospital?
Could you post a photo of the piece that you were running at the time of the accident? Whenever I have something grab or seize, I always try to examine the piece for evidence to help understand exactly what happened. Some people can re-live the event in slow motion, others just have a memory blank. Sometimes the evidence is revealing.
I commend you for having the courage to admit to your mistake, and I assume that it is so others can learn from your mistake, and avoid make the same. However, this discussion should lead to how to avoid the problem that you were trying to overcome.
I know your typing is not what it once was, so answering a lengthy post will take some time, but then I don't suppose you are doing much in the shop now. Maybe a photo of your router table above and below, and one of the piece would save some typing.
Good luck with your recovery. K
Firstly, thank you to all who have posted words of encouragement - especially to one of the later postings where he amputated 4 fingers!!!!!
Answers:
What router were you using, hp. etc. and what size table. Was the piece 10' long, or were they short.
Hitachi M12V. My router table is the extension wing of my Jet tablesaw so it's about 27" wide and 3 feet "deep". The piece was 36 x 2 x .75. 1 side of a frame for a small clock-case door.
Did you say it was a style cutter pattern, if so what shank size. It was a rail/stile bit, 1/2 shank.
Did you say we, so was there someone in the shop helping you? I had a friend helping me.
Did you take those photos, or was that done at the hospital? I took all the photos. Some with my cell phone in the ER, others at home between dressing changes. My surgeon has better "before" shots. Even he was surprised by the extent of the injury after the clots were removed in the OR.
Could you post a photo of the piece that you were running at the time of the accident? Does the description above suffice?????
Edited 12/8/2006 11:26 am ET by Womble
Thanks for your reply. I have read a lot of discussions on this forum where lots of the posters were buying smaller less powerful routers thinking there may be some safety factor in that. I think it is just the opposite. This was not the case nor cause for your accident though, apparently you were just trying to hold against too small a piece.We are all going to be faced with grain tear-out in highly figured woods which are so desirable to use, and this discussion should lead to better ways of dealing with the problem. I have some suggestions, but I am in a rush to do some finishing touches on some work that I need to install this afternoon, and don't have time now. Later K
Thanks for sharing your mishap, Womble. I know what it's like, soaking mangled fingers every evening. You will heal and gain some good use but things won't be the same. It's amazing how smart you are right after the cut. You know immediately how dumb you were. This is a great wake up call for all of us.
I would make a comment about climb cutting since most responses to your post talk about it. There are instances where it is a useful technique, particularly on arched work. The important part of climb cutting is that it should not be done in a lineal fashion, the way you feed in a normal cut. You don't ever want any material behind the cutter since this is what the bit grabs and shoots the work out of your hands. You have to start at the far end of the piece and nibble your way to the other end. This eliminates material that the cutter can grab. It still takes caution when dropping the piece against the bit.
I took some pictures the last time I had some arched panels to make. I used a zero clearance fence. One pic shows the grain direction and it's self explanatory why it has to be cut in a climb fashion. The second pic shows the first cut, right on the end. The next cut will be nibbled in front of that one, The work is moved from left to right. Because of the nibbling action, there isn't any stock behind the bit and the next cut transitions smoothly to the area already cut. You can use this same method in some hand held operations. Very useful when chamfering timber edges on stringy species like oak.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Womble,
Bless you for sharing your experience with all of us. And for posting the scary, gross, upsetting, and ..... disturbingly honest photos. (A picture's worth a....).
I've been woodworking for 2 1/2 years now and your posting has caused me to do a humbling and sobering mental review of my techniques compared to what the books and experts say. I'm lucky. So very lucky. I agree with the poster who said your photos need to go in the new to woodworking forum.
Best of luck in your recovery. Your photos make it clear - no amount of saved time or inconvenience or anything is worth what can happen when flesh meets tool.
MDA
Womble,
Here's my accident story, I am sending this because it was a bad one, but the outcome was good after a year of surgeries and rehabilitation.
On January 20th, 2001 I was building laundry room cabinets. With my Unisaw I was cutting the casework at about 10 am. I have been an addicted woodworker for 35 years, and had never nicked a finger, until this day.
So.. I had my dust collector running, ear protection on and cross cut sled atop the saw. My Unisaw is smooth and quiet, but running with the blade exposed above the sled just enough to cut 3/4 ply. I realized the piece of ply I was getting ready to cut was too short. So, still with the saw running (very bad mistake) I turned to my bench to grab a longer piece of ply, was this one log enough?, realizing my tape measure was not on the bench I reached over the front cross cut sled fence and pow. I knew I was hurt bad. So bad I couldn't look.
I ran into the house, grabbed a bath towel, wrapped my hand and called 911. Only my teenage son was home and he was still asleep in his upstairs bedroom. I yelled for him and said I was really hurt badly. On the phone 911 picked up, I started to get dizzy and ran out to lie down on the frozen front yard (too cool off as shock was setting in) as my boy ran down the stairs and started to talk with 911.
Literally 30 seconds later, the aid car pulled into my driveway, as they just happened to be on my street. Thank you Lord. They got me into the aid car, took the towel off my lefthand and a rookie EMT passed out. I was given morphine and then had no pain. I live on Bainbridge Island, a ferry ride from Seattle's Hand Clinic. One of the EMT's went into my shop to grab the missing pieces. All four fingers were gone. He came out moments later with them in a bag and off we went.
18 hours later I awoke with my hand in a cast, alone in a hospital room, looking at a blood soaked cast and wondered what the outcome of the surgery was. I knew I had received the expertise of Seattle best hand surgeon. This was good. I could see the tips of four fingers at the opening at the end of the cast. From these, metal wires protruded about one inch. Moments later my surgeon walked in. His first question was "How did you make such clean cuts?" I said it was a brand new Forrest Woodworker II 10" blade I had just bought at the Seattle woodworking show. He said the cleaness of the cut allowed him to reattach all fingers after shortening each one by 1/2", but wasn't sure the ring finger would make it. I was pleased with this. All knuckles were fused so my fingers were permanently curved.
Well, from here there was endless rehab, two more surgeries, skin grafts, on and on. I kept all my fingers, although shorter and I am a prolific woodworker. But wow, the first cut on that same saw, about a year after the accident was a major event. I keep the blood stained crosscut sled on my shop wall as a reminder. Sounds gruesome, but it is a great reminder. Every cut I make, I look at my left hand, take a deep breath and say to myself "Be Careful"
The total bill for the whole program was $195,000. To this day my hand surgeon and I are boating buddies. He always talks about the 14 hours he spent looking through a microscope reattaching all the tendons. About 5 years after the accident, most of the feeling in my finger tips has returned, I ski, I fish, I woodwork and lead a very normal life.
As a word of encouragement:
1) Hospital are wonderful places and the people that work in them are miracle makers.
2) Keep the faith pal you'll be fine.
3) When in the shop now, I never hurry, I check all set up three times before the pass
4) I have a telephone, 5' from the saw
5) I have a good well supplied medical kit over my bench
6) I have a handheld horn mounted beside my blade guard arm, and local friends and family know what to do when they hear it go off.
Even after this episode, I love woodworking. The Joy it brings me. The enjoyment others get from the things I build for them. But above all, the pride and contentment I receive from a job well done.
Best of luck with your recovery and keep the faith. Glenn
A thousand thanks for your posting! I work alone most of the time in a very rural neck of the woods. Nearest medical facility is 30 minutes of high speed driving around sharp mountainous curves. Although my wife is always around or in the house (Number One Rule made when we moved to AR and built the shop) I will now install a very loud emergency sound maker in the shop.
I am open for suggestions. Anybody? Air horn? Siren? Bell?
I do have an intercom to the house but it is not loud enough if there is a lot of noise (TV, washer, etc) in the house.
Thanks again for the great post telling me about the noise maker!
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Yes, I just have one of those small air horns powered by a small compressed air can. I bought mine from a marine chandlery.
Glenn
Thanks to all for posting such humbling (and scary) reminders of what damage these powerful tools can do--and how quickly.
Just another precaution to keep in mind: never assume that everything is as you left it.
Case in point: my good friend recently fired up his shaper, which he had set up the day before, to run the remainder of several lengths of 5" crown moulding. Assuming all was well, he turned on the machine to pick up where he left off, fed in his first board, and wham! the board was grabbed out of his hand and flung through the wall. Amazingly, he wasn't hurt, just freaked out and baffled.
As it turns out, the night before, while walking over to the house for another round of cold ones, his careless and curious friend wandered through his shop admiring his equipment and couldn't keep his hands to himself. He later confessed to having flipped a seemingly unimportant (and confusingly labeled) switch on "that big table cutter thingy" which, of course, changed the direction of the spindle rotation....Surprise!!!!!
The moral: don't take anything for granted. Always double-check your machinery settings and safety equipment.
Max
I remember that maybe 20 years ago FWW did a piece on wwing accidents. Some doc gathered statistics on which machines/tools do what kind of damage, etc. But the finding that got my attention: the great majority of wwing accidents happen to people who have been doing the craft for more than 10 years or so. The newbies have enough fear of the machines to be careful.The vets know the pattern: e.g. I've done this kind of rip 10,000 times, I should go find that feather board and clamp it to the machine, but I'm in a hurry and I have to finish this NOW, etc. etc. Maybe one of the FWW editors will read this thread and figure out it is time to go find a doc who can gather the numbers and do an updated article on accidents.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Power tools have gotten a lot of the bad comments but I am reminded of my wife's ex brother-in-law. We were visiting out in Albuquerque and he was using a chisel to mortise for a hinge. Holding the door or edge, left hand by the left end of the mortise, right hand pushing leftward from the right side of the mortise......
Get the picture? Chisel pushed past the mortise and was stopped by the left hand. Lots of the red stuff and many stitches. Luckily, no major damage except to pride and checkbook.
So also be very careful with hand tools. Bottom line is "Never Push Toward the Hand with Anything that can bruise, puncture or cut!"
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
I hear ya! The worst accident I ever had was with a miter trimmer. I wasn't paying attention and I picked it up from the blade with my right hand. Blade cut my index finger to the bone. The good thing was that it was such a clean cut, it healed fairly quickly.
That is why I keep my shop door locked -- and only I have the key. Not simply to keep idiots at bay, but primarily to keep my kids out when I am not around.
Should I ever have a "friend" pull a stunt like that on me he wouldn't likely be one for long, and I never lose friends.
I have a pointer finger that looked very similar to yours, but not as bad. Mine just took the pad of my finger tip off nearly to the back of the finger nail. I wish I still had the pictures, but I just checked and my wife deleted them. I got my battle injury the same way. It is a terrible feeling when that wood is sucked from your hand. I was routing a few different profiles to let my wife choose the one she liked. I was in a hurry to get them finished so she could decide while I went and picked up the pizza that she had just ordered for the kids. I was doing it on short pieces of stock since they were just samples. That combined with being in a hurry makes a dangerous combination. I was very lucky mine healed up as well as it did. I hope you heal soon. I am much more careful when I work now. Looking back it was probably good for me.
FWIW, I climb cut with a hand held router quite frequently. But yes, climb cutting on router table is very, very, tricky. I don't attempt to do it anymore (that's not to say it couldn't be done with the proper precautions).
Oh dear... There but for the grace...
I remember now reading about a climb cut but I don't remember it's making an impression on me, until now.
On 11/10/06 I was at work, on my lunch break, showing a buddy how to use my pc557 plate joiner... in spite of the fact that I had never used it myself. I aligned two 2x2 pices of fir, marked them and then holding one of them in my left hand I engaged the joiner with my right hand. The torque (SP?) pulled the joiner into my left hand, amputating the middle third of the first bone in my left thumb... at an angle of 11 o'clock to 5 o'clock.
I tried to let go of the trigger but it was locked on because my thumb or palm was on the button on the left side of the handle, I think... so I threw it away from me.
I'm about 98% recovered.... the main reason I relate this tale is because while I was in the hospital, San Francisco General, which incidentally has two full time hand specialists... the nurses working around me had this exchange...
"What happened to him?"
"Power tool."
"What kind?"
"Biscuit joiner."
"Oh yeah? We had a table saw this morning."
"Yeah, and a chain saw is being admitted now, less a finger."
I couldn't help but wonder if they were making this up just for my benifit, but I doubt it. I reported the accident to Porter Cable 'cause it seemed to me there should be some kind of system to report these things for the benifit of everyone. Ooops, gotta run, I'm reading this on my lunch break...
paul
Thanks for sharing your story and wish you a quick recovery. Reminds me to be take the extra couple seconds and use my RAS anti-kickback fingers when ripping (and doing small pieces on the BS).
A technique I've used when climbcutting on my table-mounted router is to stand in front of the wood and slowly release it backwords into the blade, applying forward preasure against the wood to regulate the cut. Worst case is that it still climbs and I end up with a bruse(I try to stand to the side to it would shoot by my side, as opposed to me being pulled into the bit/blade. I believe this technique would also work on a tablesaw (standing in front of the saw and letting the wood come back at you). Although the only application that I can think of for climbcutting on a TS is with a moulding attachment.
Seems very dangerous to be in a position of allowing your hand to be pulled towards any cutting blade/bit. I'd rather deal with being stuck by the stock as a worst case scenario.
Regards,
Nathan
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