This is my first posting,so a big hello to all of you. I am starting to set up a workshop, and the one thing that has me clueless after all my research on the web is a router and router table combination. This shop will be for my own use and not for commercial production, however I want accuracy, quality, easy of use, and a reasonable price. I am confused by the merits of a table with accessory lift vs. a router with above table accessibility. The choice of the table itself, and which accessories are necessary is also a mystery to me. So any advice, experience, etc. will be appreciated. Thanks, BarHarborDave
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You might try Woodpeckers. Their PRL lift provides 'above table bit changing" and they offer a variety of tops. I am very happy with my components. A phone cll to Richard Hummel would answer a lot of questions.
Also, the Jessem products are excellent.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Thanks, I'll check out woodpeckers, Dave
Welcome aboard! A router table is the very project that got me back into woodworking after years of nothing. First the question of worth. If you do an advanced search here on router tables .vs. shappers you will find that the worthiness of router tables is a hotly depated topic. I personally think there are places for both. The router table is a great tool and I use mine often. I would say you have a plethera of ways to go on this one. You don't mention if you plan to use an existing router you have or purchase that as well. When I did mine, I had only a low powered cheap router. For a router table, I would suggest you have a good horse of a router. I myself purchased the Porter Cable 7518 which is a work horse that will give you the power you need but there are other choices as well (Triton, Bosch, etc). I did get it as a dedicated router to the table. That's another consideration as well. You could:
I went in the middle. I bought the woodpecker precision router lift and mated that with the 7518 and built my own table. I bought the incra LS fence off a knots member used for a good price. That gives me excellent latteral movement of the fence which is nice. I used Norm's plans and just beefed it up a bit. I have used it quite a bit and have yet to find anything I don't like about it. It precision and I can zero in down to the thousands. I don't know if thats critical, but I sure can sneak up on a measurement and I like that. If you do build a table build some storage for stuff and you will be set. Good luck
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Dave, I urge you to consider (and research) the Veritas steel router table from Lee Valley. There are several members here who've done the same and purchased one, and so far reports have been overwhelmingly positive. I bought mine used several years ago, and have been singing their praises ever since.
A search here will find most of those people (Advanced Search for Veritas router table). The highlights are: steel table does not sag; universal router mount means no custom insert needed, swap out routers in just a few minutes; thin top gives above-the-table bit changes; magnetic accessories work like a charm.
The top is meant to sit on top of a frame, and you can make anything from a simple open frame (my first one hinged off my table saw wing) to a full-blow cabinet, to anything inbetween.
I've gotta run, breakfast date, but when I get back I'll post a couple of pictures and some links if nobody else has.
BarHarborDave,
Look at shapers.. They take up about the same space as a router and lift table do but you can do more with them safer!
They are much quieter, the cutters last about 10 times as long as router bits (and yes you can even get adapters to use router bits if you want to)
While cutters are slightly more expensive they last so much longer without sharpening that they are well worth the differance..
PLus a shaper spinning a large bit isn't nearly as scary as a router spinning that same bit at 12,000 rpm..
Go to http://www.grizzly.com and look them up, prices start at $295.00
I have a Woodpecker router table top and fence; it's been satisfactory and Woodpecker offers a number of optional items like inserts. But a recent experience ordering a new insert plate led me to believe their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I would order elsewhere next time.
You might want to consider building your own--that seems to be the most satisfactory solution for a number of folks. The New Yankee workshop offers detailed plans and very helpful videos http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?0301 That's my choice when I get around to upgrading my router table. Plus, you gain the experience of building a very useful project.
The standard production router is the Porter Cable 7518--not cheap, but I don't recall ever hearing from a dissatisfied user.
Good luck with setting up your shop.
Bob
Davey,
I second The Girl's praise of the Veritas router table. It offers precision and lots of excellent bits and pieces to perform specialist operations too. They also do a video for $5.95 that describes its various features and operations. Even if you don't end up buying their table, the video is good for explaining a number of routing techniques. (code 05J21.21)
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&cat=1,43053&p=43885
I use a Triton router in mine, as it is made for the router table, having coarse and fine height adjustment, ability to change the bit above the table and a number of other table-friendly features.
http://www.amazon.com/Triton-MOF001KC-Precision-Router-Kit/dp/B000DINFHY/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1203189049&sr=8-1
Lataxe
Thanks, all of you for your suggestions. I've checked out woodpeckers, and now I'll move on to Veritas, as well as checking out the shaper suggestion. I have purchased the Jet 13" planer/molder. I plan to use the molder for moldings and bead board. I don't believe the molder can do all do all that a router can do, but maybe I'm wrong. Thanks, Dave
BarHarborDave,
I'll echo Donald's perspective. I worked hard at coming up with a perfect solution, which meant it needed to meet my yankee criteria too (cheap). I wanted to be able to do raised panels, one wrench changing of bits, above table changing of bits and easy to set up. Along the way I added enough storage for bits, wrenches, other routers. I got all that I wished for with Norm's router table, Triton 3.35 router, a plate from rockler and a used desk I bought at auction for $2..nice thick top.After I was done I discovered the 'router guys' on the woodworkingchannel.com They seemed to get it done with a lot less. So, becareful before you skin that cat
Dave-
If you really are as new to the router table as you indicate, I encourage you to be slow in purchasing all the gadgets that may or may not be useful to your way of working and to the projects you want to undertake.
You can make a very serviceable router table yourself from a simple piece of laminated MDF for a table and a basic fence, either homemade or bought from a catalog. The prime requirement for a fence is that it be straight, have an opening for your bits, and some way of fixing it to the table, so a well-prepared piece of hardwood and a couple of clamps will do most things that a $250 fence will do. You can make a plate for your router from inexpensive plastic or buy one.
There are a number of routers now with above-the-table bit changing and height-adjusting capability, so I'd think you can do without the expense of a router lift or at least delay it to later. The Triton that Lataxe mentioned is one; Porter-Cable and Freud also make models with that capability. Get right down to it, it's not all that hard to lift the router and attached plate from the table for changing bits, and almost any router can be adjusted easily from below the table.
Good luck with your new workshop.
Since you are new at woodworking I suggest you stay away from expensive lifts and tables. Especially you said this is for personal use and not for commercial endevors (same as me).
Not an expert, just my take on it.
If you buy a router / lift combination (most are lift, plate, and router motor). You will need another router, or at least buy a base for the one in the lift, for hand held use! There are several routers that have above table adjustments built in. All you have to do is mount it to a plate or good solid table surface for table use. Unscrew it and use it for hand held use. This take extra time (couple minutes) but whats the rush?
So I suggest buying a good a router with built in table adjustments as you can afford right now.
For the table, why not take the time and pleasure and build one. You can build a really nice one with 1 sheet of good plywood (can be cheap ply too if appearance not important). Although not necessary, but handy, and only $35 or so, you can get a plate to mount in the top of the shop made router table. As for a fence you can buy that or even just use a straight piece of wood and 2 clamps. Or build one that adjusts and slides, buy adding your own t-tracks (what I have done with Rockler t-Track kits). Deppending on the projects you do, you may not even need a fence. I suggest you start building projects before spending big on a router fence!
Enjoy your new shop and take the time and build yourself some shop made tools. Buy a good router. And best of all the money you saved can be used to buy good bits! Thats just as or more important as a good table / router!! Great router, bad bits = bad cuts. Decent router - good bits = good cuts!
I say hold off on a shaper as you would be spending way too much money to just get going, and most likely you will still need a router for hand held operations!
My .02!
Ben,
You give good practical advice, especially about being able to get the router on and off the table, for use elsewhere as just a router. Donald is also correct to say that a table can be mae very cheaply and it will work well for basic routing operations.
The Veritas table system is not cheap but not as expensive as some of those with fancy lift systems and the like. If precision is required, the Veritas is peerless.
For example, yesterday I made several small box carcasses out of the accumulated scrap that was too good to throw away, using 1/4" finger joints. These can be made very easily with the Veritas cross cut fence, which has integral spacer fingers that can be varied to any finger size required. There is a built-in (but replacable) backr block, so no tear-out. The micro-adjuster on the main fence allows the fit of the fingers to be varied by as little as a couple of thou - which is very useful when making fingers in woods of different hardness.
The Veritas table also has quick release fittings to hold the router, which can be dismounted and remounted in a trice. Once the QR fittings are set for a particular router, it just pops back into place exactly where it was.
The fence is 2-part and full of T-tracks. This allows false faces to be easily mounted. You can have a set that exctly fits every router bit you have, so no chance of the work diving into a hole. Hold downs and stops are all easily mounted in the T-track - your own home made ones or the very good ones that Veritas sell.
Well, I could go and on. (Yes, I suppose I already did). :-)
Still, it is horses for courses and your suggestion to suit the table/router to the intended work is a good one. Of course, our intentions may expand a bit in the future, especially if the tool we have chosen has those additional capabiities......
Lataxe, unashamed Veritas fan
Thank you all the responses to me questions. I do have a good basis of woodworking experience from my youth,where I learned, fortunately, with only hand tools. In summer camp I began to learn on power tools. A couple of years ago I spent a week at The WoodenBoat School in Brooklin, ME, (Highly recommended). I have made do with a Sears 8 inch portable table saw, a circular saw, a drill, and a hand held jig saw. My "Workshop" has been any surface I have been able to clear includeing the dining room table. In all my wood butchery I have never used a router, which is the only major shop tool I have NO experience with. I have now checked out the Veritas tools through Lee Valley, and agree that they look very fine, and the picture of Lataxe's router table was great. I aso see the wisdom in starting with a god router and bits and building my own table for now as Ben and another has suggested. I anticipate that for the types of projects that I have in mind that I will be using the router alot. If this turns out to be true, and my homegrown set up is not up to what I'm doing, then I can start looking at the commercial products. Then I will have the experience to make an informed and hopefully good choice. Thanks, Dave
So far there has been no mention of "be carefuls" or "look out fors" - so I will add two thoughts.When freehand routing always use a "starter pin'. Best to read up on the technique as things happen very fast.Always be aware of grain direction and be sure to rout 'down-grain'. If you are working on a curved piece you may have to rout the piece in "halves" to keep to the down-grain approach.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Dave,
To add to what Frosty has provided you, I would not consider using router bits in a shaper and likewise would not use shaper bits in a router. There is a vast difference in these tools just in terms of speed, i.e. routers typically run at much higher speeds than do shapers.
Cutters are designed for use in each machine but not interchangeably. Want to find out the easy way? Mount a 3½" shaper panle raising bit in your router and fire it up freehand. You will quickly understand why not to do this.
Good luck with your decision. Your decision to make your own is a good one for you will learn a lot about what you really want in a table and it's a lot cheaper and just might be better for you.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 2/18/2008 2:50 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Do you have a shaper? I have found that router bits in a shaper work quite acceptably.
I don't have a shaper but I once tried one of my router bits in my uncles shaper and it was a nightmare to say the least. I could have made the profile cleaner using my teeth!
It might have been the bit or the shaper but I will never do it again. Based on that experience and advice from many others here, it's just not my cup of tea. Also, aren't shaper bits at least a ¾" shank?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
For many shapers you can get an accessory arbor that will accept router bits.
Bob,
I understand that the critical factor is the (peripheral) speed of the cutting part of the bit. If you can find a shaper that has a relatively high maximum speed, some router bits can work OK via an adaptor collet, as the previous poster illustrated. Big diameter router bits have to be slowed down to around 12,000 rpm anyway, or risk a Big Bang when all their momentum is transfered to the work piece when one FUs; and some shapers have around 10,000 rpm as their maximum speed, specifically to handle the bigger router cutters.
The trouble with both router tables and shapers, not to mention full blown moulders, is that one begins to collect them expensive cutters, which are made in endless, endless varieties. Oooh! They are so nice, in white, orange, blue and yellah!! (Even green and purple).
So far I have resisted the temptation of the Big Machine and make do with a 3hp Triton router in a Veritas table. It can handle some surprisingly large cutters; but wouldn't it be nice to do that profile in just one pass on a Great Big Spindle Moulder! Ah ha; where would I put the Great Thing? The shed is already chockablock.
Lataxe, lover of rotating thangs.
Bob
As you know I have a 3 hp shaper and several routers.. I also have the adapter to use router bits in my shaper..
Sharp bits work just fine and produce a nice clean edge.. I don't have chattering issues or any other such problems..
I'll admit that I've never tried dull bits on my shaper so maybe that is the problem? Or is it possible that the router bits are slightly bent?
I "traded-in" a shaper (Delta) when my kids gave me a Jessum Router table for my 70th birthday. I am much more comfortable using the router table than the shaper. I'm using a Porter Cable 2 1/4 hp router with above-table adjustment. This works very well for me. One of my pleasant discoveries is that you can use the router table ( like a planer) with the board placed in a horizontal position (router table) rather than a vertical position ( planer). One of my problems is that most routers were not designed to be operated upside down ... even though my router is hooked up to a vacume system, I have to spend extra time to get the sawdust out of the space between the router and the base.
drewcboggs.
My shaper has a large iron cover that shelters me from possible cutter explosion.. a router which spins at about twice the speed to make up for it's lack of power has no such protection.. when it is mounted upside down in a table you can only hope that the designers took that application into consideration when they made it and that it won't fail and cause injury or worse..
With the shaper I know I am using it as designed.
hey, i faced the same issue and this is what i came up with. it works really well so far.
http://briansworkshop.blogspot.com/2008/01/router-table-construction.html
I neglected to take a picture of the table with all the supports before i installed it. you can kind of see the underside in the background of this pic
http://bp2.blogger.com/_oHHT4BwPe_U/R7DStT7774I/AAAAAAAAAJI/eep5o6_j_h8/s1600-h/IMG_0091.JPG
there are 2 support members that run parallel to the fence rails and one that runs perpendicular.
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