router lift vs. plunge router mounted under the table
I’m thinking about spending the money to switch from a plunge router mounted under my table to a router lift with a dedicated router motor.
Does a router lift (such as the Jessem Master Lift II) typically raise the collet higher than a plunge router mounted below the table (which is what I have now), so that I don’t sometimes find myself having to insert a bit less than fully into the collet (which is of course dangerous), in order to gain the bit height needed? I assume so, which is also how you can change bits from above the table, but I wanted to confirm this as I have never used a router lift.
Also, any other advantages or disadvantages of a router lift vs. a plunge router mounted under the table? Seems to me that a few routers like the large Triton router are designed for use under the table, but what are the disadvantages of this approach?
Finally, any recommendations on a large router motor to use in a router lift system, should I decide to go that route?
Replies
I'm not an expert on router lifts, but I think the answer is, at least, a partial yes. I believe some lifts go far enough to lift the collet above the table. The disadvantage of any lift system is, of course, cost.
I use a Milwaukee router (not plunge) that has a vernier screw on it for fine adjustments. This screw can also be accessed through the bottom and the table top with a hole in the right place. I believe the Triton and maybe some others have a similar arrangement. For me, this negates the cost of a lift system and works just fine.
Of course, this doesn't address the bit changing issue. My Milwaukee has a lever that releases the motor. So, I just flip the lever, drop the motor, and put it on the table to change the bit. This works fine for me.
Thank you for the information.
In my humble opinion, the router lift is worth the money. I used a Makita plunge router, then a Porter Cable router under my router table. Fine vertical adjustments were always a challenge for me. I bought the Jessem lift, installed the PorterCable router and it has been excellent. The router can be raised high enough for bit changes with both wrenches above the table. The adjuster allows for precise vertical bit positioning and I’m happy with it.
Hope this helps
Thank you for the information.
Look into the big Triton, made to be used inverted in a table and comes with all you need for fine adjustments and bit changes from above the table.
That's good to know. Do you see any downside to it vs. a router lift?
It's my setup and I'm happy with it.
I started with the Triton, but thought it tried to accomplish too much. In other words, a kludge. Hard to adjust accurately. Also hard to arrange dust collection, but that's a side issue. It's a plunge router, not a motor, and all you need in a router table is a motor. If you get a lift, which I recommend.
I've used a router table using a fixed router that you had to adjust the usual way, holding the router on your knee while you move it up and down. I don't recommend that method either.
Then I got a Woodpeckers table with Porter Cable motor and the WP router lift. The lift is great. You can raise all the way up or down instantly and adjust easily. The bits can be raised to higher than the table--all the way till the motor housing hits the underside of the router plate and thus gets in the way of further travel. And fine adjustment is easy via a thumb wheel set just below the table surface.
I admit to being old school at 76. My parents became adults just at the beginning of the Depression; their first question if something was needed was "Can we make it ourselves? Can we grow it ourselves?" When I started woodworking, router tables were a piece of plywood with a hole in it with a router base attached underneath, all sitting on a couple sawhorses or a home-made base. Commercial router tables didn't exist, much less router lifts. Kitchen sink cut-outs, with their plastic laminate top layer, were a slicker upgrade over plywood. We made a nicer one from a piece of maple counter top with a 1/4" plexiglas top. Then my partner scrounged an old Craftsman table saw with most of its guts missing. We removed the rest of the guts, made an aluminum throat plate replacement with a circular opening for throat plates of different hole sizes, mounted a base under it, making sure it was straight with the top, and made a couple wooden fences, one solid and one with a recess for the bit and dust collection.
So, like Bilyo, I just remove the router motor, change the bit, and put it back in. I can get the collet protruding from the table, tho I never need to. Plunge routers have a more limited depth range. I like mine, but would never use it under a table. I started with a Porter Cable router (then called Rockwell) in 1975, and now have 3 motors and many bases (some from flea markets.) Unfortunately, Porter Cable has stopped making these routers, which were basic stout routers.
Altho I have an old Makita 3hp plunge router that I never use, all my P-C routers are between 1.25 and 2 hp. I admit that for panel raising, I use an old industrial shaper. Otherwise, I don't want to be taking a cut with a router that requires 3hp! I'd rather do multiple passes, giving much cleaner results and being safer for me.
With all my jigs being built for the P-Cs, I'd probably look on eBay if I needed another motor. If I was starting from scratch, I'd probably get a Bosch 2hp or 2.25 hp.
I'm in complete agreement with your view of how we sometimes tend to overdo things. My first router table was also a sheet of plywood that I clamped to my very simple pine workbench. However, I also hate using my plunge router under my router table, primarily because changing bits from below is annoying, and since I can't get the collet up as high as I would like, I too often take a chance and use a bit that isn't much more than 50% inserted into the collet. I'm very safety conscious with all of my other tools, and therefore find myself avoiding using my router table in general. Sounds like either (a) a router lift and a new router motor, or (b) a new router like the Triton TRA001, will solve my problem. Option (a) will cost more than twice as much...I wonder what disadvantages, if any, there are to option (b).
I'm a big fan of the Triton TRA001...it is excellent on all fronts. For the cost and what you get - there is not much that comes close. I use it mounted under a table with a Rockler Pro Plate I had. Note this required drilling hole in plate for the winder handle that allows for through the table height adjustments. Spindle lock and above table bit changes a big plus. I would add that when making height adjustments you should always make the height changes going upward, so there is no slop, then lock down.
Thanks for the information. I'm definitely considering this approach. Are there any disadvantages to this approach compared to a router lift?
I haven't used a lift mechanism so I can't make comments/comparison from use - that speak to your question. That said, off the bat a unit like a Jessem lift e.g. allows for locking above table, and you have to lock the Triton on the router itself below table. This is not really an issue for me...maybe 5 secs of time...just not a deal breaker for money saved. Generally you will hear about being able to make adjustments in the ".001 range" with units like a Jessem. I don't ever need that kind of "capability" for basic woodworking...and I always check the cuts by hand measuring anyway.
I use the TRA001 too. find it easy to adjust and plenty powerful. It is way cheaper than a separate motor and raise. The best bit is when it is fully raised, the spindle is locked and you can change the bit with one spanner.
Down sides are that you have to switch the machine off at the machine in order to change bits - safe of course but fiddly under a table and reduces the benefit of above table bit changes.
The plunge spring should be removed for long term under-table use. I find the rack and pinion plunge mechanism works well enough without it anyway. The cap can fill with sawdust and make it impossible to change the bit - it can be left off permanently though which solves the problem.
I would prefer a dedicated under-table machine but having the big Triton means I can have a massively powerful plunge router when I need it and a very capable router designed for inverted use when I don't.
Another vote for the big Triton router. It's easily raised and lowered in the table as it has two mechanisms for doing so - the quick and maximum movement from one of the side handles, which is also the up/down knob; and the fine adjustment knob that sets the height with final precision.
The collet comes well above the table top and is auto-locking in that position, meaning you only need one wrench to change the bit. In addition, the collet will only come up to bit change height if the on switch is set to "off", with a plastic cover automatically sliding over it so it can't be pressed to "on" accidently as you install the bit.
It also has plenty of power.
The only negative I can find is that the Triton motor is a loud rascal .... but what are good ear muffs for, eh? :-)
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One advantage of a router in a table is that you can take the router out and use it for other routing tasks, which you can't do with a dedicated motor in a router lift.
I confess, though, that in the twenty-odd years I've had a router table, the only time the router came out was to swap my initial DeWalt 625 for the Triton, about 12 years ago. It's a faff to demount and remount a router in a router table, even with a good system like that in the Veritas router table I have. So I have other routers for freehand tasks, including that DeWalt 625.
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Another consideration to bear in mind is the weight of the router or motor. Whatever you put it in needs to be good enough to avoid gradual (or even immediate!) sagging.
I have no experience of router lifts but know that many router tables don't deal well with the sagging factor, especially over time. The steel-topped Veritas router table I've had for a couple of decades was built with a very slight crown so that the router installation was just enough to pull it dead flat. I check it regularly with a machinists straight edge and its still dead flat.
Home-made ply and MDF router tables are notorious for sag ......
Perhaps router lift systems, though, are inherently less saggy because of their more integrated design? Perhaps router lift owners could comment?
Lataxe
Well, my vote for Triton is a "NO". Here's my experience: worked well for a while, then I noticed every time a released the lock to make a height adjustment, the spindle would drop a bit, and it got so bad I couldn't use it at all. In their defense, I had not read the directions to remove the spring until after I used it a bit but when I did remove the spring that is when the problems started.
I talked to Triton about the backlash in the gears and their reply was "its the nature of the beast." Needless to say, that wasn't very satisfactory. They offered a repair service which I declined.
It is possible that was just my particular router, but according to Triton it is a known issue. I think its hanging a heavy router upside down possibly they have redesigned something. They router works perfectly fine in the upright position.
I replaced it with a MLII + Jessem PowerTek motor/remote speed control (no longer offered). No question the accuracy far exceeds the Triton. It will raise high enough to get the offset wrenches on easily enough. I did damage the edge of the insert ring, tho, b/c I was too lazy to run it all the way up.
There are a couple 3HP motors available, one through MLCS can't remember the other one.
Bottom line, upgrading from your set up to a MLII will be akin to going from a Volkswagen to a Porsche.
Bora makes a 3hp motor I use in the Jessem lift. One of the many good things I like is that the router uses an ER20 collet, which is far superior to normal router collet. And available in lots of sizes. I use a 5/16 and 3/16 collet a lot with straight spiral end mills.
There is a technique for setting the bit height in the upside down Triton so that it stays at that height. Long ago I discovered that the router can be a teeny bit "sticky" in the columns on which the machine plunges up & down. So, as others have said, making sure you set the bit height by using the fine adjuster to push the router bit up, rather than letting it down from a too-high position, ensures that any "sticky" has been overcome.
In the hundreds of operations I've made with the Triton in a Veritas router table, I've never had it slip or the bit height change in any way that I can notice.
One sure test is cutting finger joints. I often cut a few dozen finger gaps in a day, in making a small box as well as the trays that go inside it. If there was any change in bit height during such a session, it would certainly show in the finger joints when they were put together. Even a tenth of a millimetre difference in height would show as a teeny gap in one or more of the finger joints. I've never had such a problem
Lataxe
So I’ve had the Triton TRA001 in a Woodpeckers plate/Infinity RT since about 2014 with overall good success. It’s an ok setup if you pay attention to carefully raising the bit to the desired bit height. Trying to adjust downward can be fussy as it can “fall” down below the target point and then you’re starting over on height adjustment. Definitely a quirk of this model. I found I also have to keep dust out of the router body as much as possible because it can make the columns and height adjustment gear sticky; so dust collection is important.
Since it works ok and I don’t do lots of table routing I’ll probably keep using this setup; but If I had it to do over again I think I would go with a router lift system.
I have a Triton 2 1/4 hp plunge router (MOF001) that is bolted to the underside of a triton router table. It allows one to raise and lower from above, and the collet can be raised above the table (after switch is turned off, and its little window closes over it). More than enough power for my needs.
I use the Jessem lifts in my shop after using just a undermount plunge router for over a decade. And honestly, I could never go back. The top side fine tuning and lock mechanism is just so damn easy to do, and you can add in a paddle switch to your table for even more ease of access.
I have a router lift with a 3hp PC motor. It's in the right wing of my TS. The TS fence is the base for a supplemental fence that attaches to it. Dust collection is a downdraft "cabinet" made from a Rubbermaid garbage can and a 4" drain fitting at the bottom. The lift gets the collet high enough to change bits above the table. The dust collection works great. Good money spent on the lift and motor. The rest was very inexpensive and work extremely well. The only thing I can't do above the table is change the motor speed. But with 3 hp it powers through most stuff at the lowest speed... 10000rpm 😁
Before making a decision, be sure to look at the Dowelmax RTL Router Lift https://www.dowelmax.com/product/dowelmax-router-lift/
I've used one for three years and find that it enables precise bit height settings much more conveniently than a lift.
The best part is that I do the adjusting in a full standing position; no bending.
First, look at the photo on the web site. The lift easily mounts permanently to your router table, then your table top mounts permanently to the lift. You mount your fixed router base to the underside of the top. That's a low-skill project.
After mounting, the lift and the attached top hinge open at 45 degrees. That means you are eyeballing the bit horizontally and setting the depth from a standing position. You can use whatever blocks, tri-square, depth gauge or workpiece you like to easily set the depth. You will be totally precise with your depth setting because you can view the bit from the profile. Did I say you don't need to bend?
Maybe the best part is that you can easily slip the motor out of the fixed base, swing the top down to horizontal and change the bit while the motor is laying on its side on the router table top.
I'm not selling the Dowelmax lift, but I'm pretty religious about it. There are no moving parts to adjust, clean or wear out. Did I mention, there's no bending?
I use a Milwaukee 5616-24 router. It's 2-1/2 hp, 13 amp, and turns the big Whiteside 3-1/4" raised panel bit with ease. Any time I need to use the motor with the plunge base, I can easily slip the motor out of the fixed base under the Dowelmax base.
Check out the web site.
Plus 1 for the Triton TRA001.
I just got a mast-r-lift at Christmas and once I got it out of the box I was very impressed, it is the kind of tool you can just feel was well built.
To answer your question, you can adjust exactly where the motor is clamped into the lift and I have mine set so the bottom nut just clears the table so I can use 2 wrenches to change bits. This was important to me as the router sits in a enclosed box for dust collection as part of the cabinet I built, and it is a pain to get at the router itself.
I use my porter cable router for now, and plant to continue to. It is not the best router for the use, but I don't use a router for much out of the table that my cordless trim router can't handle, except my flattening jig. I don't use either enough to justify a new router until mine dies.
Bottom line, the lift is really nice, nicer than plywood with a router mounted, but both so work.
I have the triton with the push button spindle lock installed in an Infinity router table (they sell the complete package). After using it for awhile I have come to the decision that I want a system wherein everything can be done above the table and use a paddle on/off switch for safety. My observations are these:
1. Dust collection is a problem. I have the Infinity system that uses a “Y” to pull dust from the triton dust shield and the router fence. I get a lot of dust under the table (some improvement with some homemade shields to augment the triton shield).
2. When I bought the system my plan was to build a dust collection box under the table but after using it there are at least 2 problems. One, you can’t access the push button for the spindle lock and two, you can’t access the router’s plunge lock.
3. Looking at a system like Woodpeckers lift eliminates all of these problems. I can raise and lower the router motor so the bits can be changed above the table (it requires two wrenches but to be honest, contorting my hand under the table to find the triton’s push button lock is awkward and uncomfortable). It has a rapid lift and lower feature to raise the motor quickly, it has above the table micro-height adjust, it has above the table height locking capability, it uses ER-32 collets (six or eight locking segments instead of four and higher concentricity precision), and they sell a dust box that encloses everything.
To be fair, I have made good cuts using the under table mounted triton and a lift system like Woodpecker’s will not necessarily improve on this. My decision to make the change is purely for convenience which I think will lead to a little better efficiency (which, as I get older seems to matter more to me).
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