Replies

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | May 02, 2007 04:24am | #1

   What router that you're contemplating using?  It might make a difference.

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   cim | May 02, 2007 04:54am | #2

   I was thinking the PC 7518 or the milwaukee 3 1/2 hp router.  What would you recommend.

1. 
   [email protected] | May 02, 2007 07:08am | #3

   In one of the recent magazines I saw an anouncement that Jessem and Milwaukee have teamed up to offer, the Milwaukee as a dedicated table mounting motor with the speed control and on/off switch in a box on a cord that runs back to the motor.  I have been sending emials to PC for about four years now telling them that they needed to offer the 7518 that way, since a huge number of them end up mounted upside down in a table.  But it fell on deaf ears. 

   Anyway, I digress, the Milwaukee with the external/remote control box would be my choice.  With it mounted on an appropriate lift, you would rarely ever have to get inside the cabinet.  Now if they had been really bright they would have put a 3 or 4-inch diameter end cap on the motor, that was smooth for at least an inch, so you could hook up a 4-in flex hose to the outside of the cabinet, and provide clean motor cooling air with out the sawdust particles that are floating around in the cabinet included. 

   I did a little searching; Rockler and Amazon have them on the website. 

2. 
   geedubbee | May 07, 2007 09:16pm | #26

   Cim,

   I have the Mil 5625 and after long and careful thought have decided (for me) that the Woodpecker Quick Lift is the way I'll go.  I was concerned about flex as the support posts are on one side as opposed to opposite each other like some others including the PRL.

   I value talking with folks that use stuff over printed info, etc.  Don't get me wrong, I read up on this thing a lot, spoke to Woodpecker asking some pointed questions and getting the right answers.  I also spoke with a couple folks who have both the PRL and the QL and state no difference in stability.  They both love the quick bit change capability as the 5625's collet is a bit short (don't know about the PC).

   Anyway, that's my take and it's worth just what you've paid for it ;-)

   Glenn

2. 
   JerryPacMan | May 02, 2007 03:07pm | #4

   I have the Bench Dog cast iron router table/lift and I highly recommend both.  The lift is built like a tank and I especially like the way the indicator for depth works.  The depth indicator is accurate and the zero feature is a pleasure to use.  I started out with a Bosch 1617 in the lift but I now have a Milwaukee 3 1/2 hp 3625 router mounted for almost unlimited power. 

    

   Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .

1. 
   cim | May 02, 2007 04:48pm | #6

   Am I correct in understanding Benchdog no longer makes the cast iron version and if they do would you have any good resource for finding one.

1. 
   JerryPacMan | May 02, 2007 05:15pm | #7

   The cast iron table top (40-031) is available from Amazon.com.  The router lift top is nickel plated steel and the router mounting/cooling fins are aluminum. 

   Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .

1. 
   cim | May 02, 2007 05:22pm | #8

   Thanks for your insight, I think I have made up my mind.  If only I had gone with a Benchdog table in the begining.

3. 
   Jfrostjr | May 02, 2007 03:41pm | #5

   I have used Woodpeckers PRL (Precision Router Lift) for over three years. It has been great. Each time I change bits above the table, I wonder about all those people who still struggle under the table.

   I made a hex rod that I chuck in my drill to run it up and down - fast and easy.

   Frosty

1. 
   Metod | May 05, 2007 04:42am | #19

   "I wonder about all those people who still struggle under the table."

   Well, we are not clumsy and have enough brain to buy routers not needing help getting up or down. How many videos to operate a router lift? We wonder too...

   Metod

4. 
   frenchy | May 03, 2007 05:35am | #9

   cim

    please consider a shaper instead.  I've used router lifts and I don't like them..  a shaper will cost less than a router and a lift table but offer much better finish, faster cutting safer cutting and much longer lasting cutters..

     Grizzly sells a shaper starting at $315.00. IT has a reversing capability which provides a whole other demension to edge work..

     Not having great big cutters spinning fifty bazillion RPM makes me feel better and allows me to work safer.. Not to mention the noise factor.. (7000 rpm versis 17,000 rpm )

    Shaper cutters costs are  about what the better router bits cost  but last much, much,  longer..

    Shapers can be capable of single pass jobs that no router could ever duplicate   

    

1. 
   colebearanimals | May 04, 2007 06:54am | #11

   Hi cim,

        I agree with frenchy. But if you do go this route do yourself a favor and figure getting at least a small stock feeder. They really make the shaper a pleasure to use, and much safer as well.

                                    Paul

1. 
   frenchy | May 05, 2007 01:34am | #17

   colebearanimals,

    Given the choice between a router lift table and a shaper (without a feeder) I'll choose the shaper. However you are 100% correct about a feeder making the job safer!

2. 
   Napie | May 04, 2007 07:39pm | #15

   Amen Frenchy! I was in the local Rockler store and they were really pushing this wiz-bang $1,400.00 router table, (router sold separately of course).  So I asked the salesman why wouldn’t I just buy a nice small shaper, cutters AND a new router for the same money….  He had no answer and large crowd that was watching seemed perplexed, I think the whole router accessory industry, much like the sharpening cults, have sold most amateur woodworkers on just buying lots of expensive add-ons instead of looking at what really works for them.  Everyone wants another jig.

5. 
   Routerman | May 03, 2007 04:28pm | #10

   A contrarian option, albeit the cheapest.

6. 
   terrylee86 | May 04, 2007 03:23pm | #12

   That Jessem-Milwaukee combo is the best out there.  Frenchy is right to some extent about a shaper that is why I have both.  A 5HP shaper is an amazing tool, it is also intimidating in small applications.  That is why I have both. Big stuff- shaper, small stuff- router table.  Turning a shaper on with a 4" 3-wing raise panel cutter is an experience no woodworker should miss. Sounds like a Cessena in landing in your shop.  The Jessem-Milwaukee combo is the hightest rated for heavy work.  Take a look at the Triton-Jessem Mast-r-Table combo, with this unit you do not need a router lift.  Best prices on Jessem products toolcorral.com and type in Jessem in the search window that comes up.

   Terry

7. 
   forestgirl | May 04, 2007 05:59pm | #13

   I've never used any router lift, so this may be a dumb question, but with at least two, maybe more, routers out there with above-the-table adjustment, why spend the big chunk of change a router lift costs?  Or, why not put that money into a shaper as Frenchy suggests??  What advantages to a router+lift am I not seeing.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
1. 
   PeterDurand | May 04, 2007 07:21pm | #14

   Methinks that router lifts simply got a head start and then the router folks incorporated them into their design. I got one because I had one of those huge PC routers that was useless to me due to its weight and primitive (inaccurate, slippery) adjusting and locking mechanism. In the lift it does what it does best..spins with a great deal of torque.Cheers,Peter 

8. 
   Bruce B. | May 04, 2007 07:58pm | #16

   Good afternoon CIM,

   I'm with Frenchy and FG on this one. I have a PC 7518 with a Jessem lift (a very nice set up) but if I had to do it over I would skip the lift and get a router that can be adjusted from the top. A shaper is the way to go for bigger bits (panel raising, hand rail cutters, etc) if you have the space for it. My router table (with homemade top), lift, Jessem fence, PC router, cabinet materials, etc cost about $700. They both have their place, depends on what you are going to do.

   Cheers,

   Bruce

1. 
   frenchy | May 05, 2007 01:43am | #18

   Bruce B. 

    You spent $700 on a router and a lift.  the space it takes up must be the same as a shaper, That's about the price is what you can buy a decent shaper, stand and cabinet.  Yet the router screams along at 17,000 rpm.    The shaper a mere 7000 rpm..   bits on a router quickly dull at that speed while cutters on a shaper last and last and last.    (have yet to need to sharpen any of mine and I've used the heck out of them while the bits I've used on my routers have needed sharpening three time now. 

    The sole advantage I can see a lift table has over a shaper is if you already own a surplus large enough router and can dedicate it to the lift table..

1. 
   Ink Man | May 05, 2007 06:28am | #20

   Frenchy-I have neither a router table nor a shaper at this time, but am interested in learning a little more from you on why you think a shaper is the way to go.  Can you (or do you) run the shaper using 1/2" shank router bits?  If so, how do they work?  I was under the impression that with regular router bits, the higher speed(s) were essential to clean cuts.  From your experience, do you feel this is the case?

1. 
   frenchy | May 06, 2007 12:45am | #24

   Ink Man,

     I've used router bits in my shaper, As along as the feed speed is slower it seems to work OK.   More of a chance of a Kick with a router bit (I believe) but Often I have the right  profile I need in a shaper cutter and don't need to use the router bits. I mean I've got a ton of them but I still prefer using the shaper whenever possible over the router especially on smaller things..

       For example right now I'm building cross styles to make a raised panel for my tower.

     They are small pieces about two inches by four inches and 1/2 inch thick.. Because the tower is curved I need to raise the ends up a little bit  to cut at the proper radius.. Something scary as heck to attempt on a router or a lift table.. But I made a jig that slide in the groove and it's something like 30 seconds per style. Clamp it in the jig, slide it past the cutter and unclamp the piece and clamp another piece in place..   with 420 styles to make I need speed and efficency.

      Some tasks can only be attempted with a shaper.. and other tasks are made massively easier with one..

    This doesn't mean you need to throw your router away.. there are plenty of uses for a router.    Just that the shaper makes a lot more sense than a router and lift table..

     Remember a router bit unless it's one of the very expensive ones is almost a throw away item.. in that getting them properly sharpened will often cost as much as buying new..

    However In addition to lasting massively longer a shaper cutter is really a lifetime item.. I've got three places that will do a really nice job sharpening my cutters and they won't even touch router bits.. "buy a new one, it's cheaper!" 

2. 
   PeterDurand | May 05, 2007 09:07am | #21

   It is my impression, and I am always willing to be corrected, that the two tools are used for different purposes. Different speeds, different cutters, different jobs.Cheers,Peter 

1. 
   [email protected] | May 05, 2007 09:14pm | #22

   Routers were originally hand held and used for trim, and miscellaneous tasks using jigs and guides.  They were in the 1/2 to 3/4 horsepower range.  Cutters were relatively small, and didn't need much power. 

   Then people figured out you could mount them upside down, and do a passable job of tasks normally performed by a shaper.  Which was a relatively expensive machine, that really wasn't portble or suited for most home shops. Higher horsepower and bigger cutters followed.  Slowly the hobbiest, and one man shops started to use a router table in lieu of a shaper and fancier router tables. bits, fences and lifts followed. 

   In the same time frame, smaller more feature filled shapers came on the market. 

   If you are going to do a lot cuts using one profile then the shaper cutters make sense.  They do cost more initially but are far more durable, and more easily sharpened.  If you need to do a short run of a profile, 300-ft or so, then the router in a table is more economical, the bits cost less but have far shorter life.  After 300-ft most of them need to be touched up, and at a thousand-feet are really in need of sharpening.   on both of them the speeds are comparable on big cutters; around 10,000 rpm, and the tip speed is very close.  The shaper has a quiet, long lasting induction motor.  The router has a screaming universal motor that will last quite a while, if you perform routine maintenance on it.  But, the bearings are smaller, and it will die long before the shaper does.

   Right now I don't have either a shaper of a fancy router table with a lift and big motor.  I don't tend to incorporate things that take big cutters in my work, and do quite well with my Porter Cable 690, and 890 series routers in a rather large table.   If I were to decide to make the thousand dollar purchase, it would be a shaper.  I can buy a good quality shaper, and a couple of cutters, for what most guys are dropping into a table, high horse motor, a lift, and a few big router cutters of the same profiles.   

1. 
   PeterDurand | May 05, 2007 11:24pm | #23

   Interesting. You are quite right about the money..it adds up when the final product is considered.Thanks.Peter 

3. 
   Bruce B. | May 07, 2007 02:44pm | #25

   Good morning Frenchy,

   Gee, I didn't mean to spend $700, it just kinda happened. I was just getting started on some more serious WW about 3 years ago so I bought a 2 1/4 hp Dewalt router combo kit and mounted it on a decent homemade top w/ temp router table for an entertainment center project. Finished that and used the scraps to make the router cabinet, replaced the homemade fence with a Jessem fence on sale from Woodcraft, got tired of changing bits so bought the lift on sale at Woodcraft (gotta stop going there !) got tired of taking the router out to use in its base(s) so bought a PC 7518 (on sale for $239 at Amazon). Next thing I knew, Poof ! $700 gone ! Thats when I realized I could of had a shaper ! Seriously though, I love my router table, it has plenty of storage for bits and my growing router collection, excellent dust collection and suits my needs for now since I am just a weekend warrior. I also don't have space for a shaper in my garage/workshop (11' x 22'). It would be nice to have both, RT for smaller stuff, shaper for big stuff as Terry said.

   Is your shop really 50' x 30' ? I have workshop envy !

   Cheers,

   Bruce

1. 
   frenchy | May 08, 2007 01:42am | #27

   Bruces B. 

        Well I disagree, I use my shaper for the small pieces I think it's safer than the router lift tables I've used.  And frankly I can't stand the scream of the high RPM whine that a router makes.. My ear muffs get the noise level down below the pain threshold but somehow can't eliminate that scream.. It's still fingernails on the chaulk board as far as I'm concerned..