Hi All
I bought a Porter Cable 3 1/4 hp router and the freud table etc. Not worth the powder……. (the freud part) I find the weight of the router causes the plastic insert to sag. So I’m considering the purchase of a router lift of some sort with a metal insert (plate) The one that’s caught my eye right now is the Jessem Mast-r-lift. Has anyone had any experience with it or any others?
Thanx
Lumpy
Replies
Thanks for asking the question Lumpy, I am looking at lifts for the same router.
The JessEm Masterlift and Bench Dog Prolift 1002 are the only two that have caught my eye so far.
The BenchDog PL1002 looks the most promising to me but it would be nice to hear from actual users of both units.
As a newbie woodworker, I have made a couple of costly mistakes on tool purchases (Rigid jointer,DW733 planer) and I have vowed not to make that mistake again. I would rather pay double what I feel I can afford for a tool and save twice as long, than to throw my money away on a tool again.
The top of the line lifts aren't cheap but it seems you get what you pay for in most cases.
Larry
wise words
I'm reading a tool test in "WOOD" (Oh my can I say that here?) magazine issue #142 June/July 2002 where they rate 8 router lifts. It looks like the bench dog and the Mast-r-lift rate about the same but the bench dog weighs 34 pounds! as compaired to the 14 pound mast-r-lift. I think if nobody changes my mind I'll buy the mast-r-lift because its made right here in Ontario and coupled to a 15 pound or so router the weight adds up (my router table is stored under the bench)
I just noticed the bench dog pro lift travells 6 inches where the Jessem only raises 3 1/2 but they still talk about changing bits above the table. Something else to think about.
good luck
Lumpy
Guys,
There was a pretty good discussion about 6 months ago on this topic. Apparently, people in the know have not seen this post yet.
You might want to do a search on 'Router Table' under gallery...Tom Ferrer (sp?) built a nice unit....
I have the Jessem Master Lift and the PC 7518 (the 3 1/4HP) router and love it. What I like about the Jessem system over the Bench Dog one is the insert rings. The Jessem uses a spanner wrench to unthread the rings, while the Bench Dog uses screws. After a couple of times changing out the Bench Dog rings the screws will scratch your wood. I have used dozens of different bits and I have never had a travel issue due to bit length. I can change any of my bits above the table, even the large raised panel cutters. Make sure that you get the extra set of ring (about another $30) to better support your wood.
I have the PC7518 and woodpecker's 16tpi PRL. Great combo!
Thanx, found the discussion
is it just me or do most of the discussions seem to muddy the waters even more?
on the other hand we do ask for other's opinions don't we?
Lumpy
Lumpy,
Your correct, it seems things get muddy quickly. I built the router table last summer but have not gone to a larger router yet or a lift system. I thought my DW 621 could handle most of my needs and the main value to a lift system was changing bits from the top. Recently I tried to put a 1.5" ogee edge on some oak...aint gonna happen with my current setup....pushing againt the bit it moves and gives a crappy cut. I need a much bigger support for the router...for it to simulate a shaper....
Larry S,
I have the Bench Dog Prolift with a PC 3.25 HP and I higly recommend to anyone. I have had it mounted on the table for almost a year and no sign of sagging. Great product!
Carlos"Driving a car is more like riding while riding a bike is more like driving"
Thanks Woodworm, I am no closer to making a descision right now, but good to hear from an actual user.
Congrats Lumpy on the purchase. Sounds like a good machine, I am anxious to hear more on it.
Lumpy,
If you haven't taken the plunge yet (couldn't resist), check out the PRL from Woodpeckers (http://www.woodpeck.com). I have the 1/32 thread lift (they also make a 1/16 thread left as someone has already mentioned). It's a VERY nice lift and it will perfectly fit the 7518 PC. It has a bunch of features. I especially like the automatic locking mechanism to prevent the lift from raising/lowering during operation. Its fairly beefy but not excessive since it is made of thick aluminum. No worries about flex with this lift.
--Rob
Lumpy,
I recently researched the same subject and went with the Woodpecker and PC 3.25 router combination. I just finished the cabinet and have use it several times and have been delighted with the product. I bought the 1/32 version and in retrospect I probably would have buy the 1/16 just for the speed in bit changing. Either version gives great depth setting control. Several post have mentioned getting all of the ring inserts and this is a definite "should have." For the Woodpecker I would also recommend the offset wrench that permits easier bit changing in that you don't have to raise the router quite as high. I would also recommend that you purchase the plate insert template: it certainly saves time. All-in-all, I have been extremely pleased with the overall quality, operation and stability of the product.
Doug
Edited 1/12/2004 2:08:47 PM ET by Doug
Lumpy!
consider a shaper instead of the lift table.. you'll like using one and for the price of a good lift table you can buy a decent shaper..
I have the same router and use the Jessem Mastrlift. Love it. I built the NYW deluxe router table, except I also use the Jessem fence. Therefore, I had to make the table 2 inches narrower in width. No problem. The 8 bit drawers stayed the same size. Took 2 inches out of the center of the upper portion (where the router hangs) and 2 inches off the left side of the two smaller drawers. Kept the large drawer the same size as specified in their plan.
Alan - planesaw
Hi Guys,
Like you I've been trying hard to decide which router system to buy. I saw an ad in the Finewoodworking mag a month ago for router tables.... A company by the name of Jessum.. so I checked out their website. Wow! A Canadian company based in Ontario which is a plus. Won't have to worry about the exchange rate.
Anybody here familiar with the LeeValley router system. I just received their brochure the other day. I haven't decided yet which router system to purchase. I'm willing to pay for quality. I don't want to be disappointed in the long run. The PC router 690 I'm using only weighs around 8lbs but I might buy the new PC 3 1/2 hp router later on. Just want to keep my options open. I'm concerned about the table possibly sagging over time. The LeeValley router table top claims it will never sag due to it's special construction. And it also says it only takes 30 seconds to attach the router to the router plate.
Does anyone have a price range for the Jessum router system. which assessories are absolutely necessary. Meantime I will definitley check out the gallery here on the finewoodworking site to see what I can find out about routers.
Wendy
PS... Can't remember who advised me to buy the General International mobile base.... Just finished putting it together the other day. Works great! Now I can finally move my table saw around the shop. Thanks
Just E-mailed Federated tools in London ON about price for the Mast-r-lift from Jessem. I'll let you know when (if) they E-mail me back
As to the Lee Valley table, I saw a post here the other day saying they didn't like the atachments I think. What I'm after is the lift through the table, strength of the plate and repeatability of setting. I can always screw on a piece of angle iron (to the underside of the table) for strength.
recieved an E-mail from Federated in London today
$359 for the Mast-R-Lift,waiting to hear about inserts
have to check some more places out and I'll let you Know what I find out.
Lumpy
P.S. Just checked Atlas Machinery they have a pricelist on their website and prices are a little bit better
Edited 1/13/2004 6:33:13 PM ET by Lumpy
Here is the list of dealers in Ontario that JessEm tools sent me
In the Toronto area you can contact TJV tel: 905-670-3344, Markham Industrial tel: 905-477-5192 or Atlas Machinery tel: 416-598-3553. In the London area you can contact Federated Tool tel: 519-451-0100. In the Hamilton are you can contact Tegs Tools tel: 905-388-0784. In the Thunder bay are you can contact Tools Wood tel; 807-475-8333.
I'm going to try a few more of them
Lumpy
Hi lumpy,
Thanks for the info. Forest Girl tells me she's delighted with her LeeValley router table. I was considering buying one of those just before Christmas. Pretty sure they're in the same price range as the Jessum lift. I haven't quite made up my mind yet. Way too many choices. Shaper vs Router
But the only question is.......... Would it be better to invest in a Shaper????????? A friend of mine has one and wouldn't bother buying a router table. But I think for the kind of work I do I would get by just fine with a router table. I've got to find out some more about those Shapers. What can they do that the basic router table can't?
Wanda
Try here first!
http://www.oak-park.com/index.html
and a great Router table seen here:http://woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/7_10johnsrtab1.html
oak park sells the router plates for any system.I have purchased from them.If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh
I got the Jessem MastRLift and Jessem fence. Use the big PC router. Built my own router table using NYW plans. Have to cut 2 inches on the left side of the plans since the Jessem fence isn't as wide/long as the one you build with the plans. If you go that route, let me know and I'll give you the details of what I did.
Love the results. Rock solid.
Alan - planesaw
If you haven't purchased the router yet, consider the Big Bosch 3.25 hp plunge router with the plunge release mechanism. It has a very good lift mechanism built in. I would get a 3/8 or at least 1/4" Al plate for it as it weighs nearly as much as the PC.
Lumpy -
Have the same router and the Bench Dog cast iron version. Wouldn't trade for them. I built a 4 x 8 table around my saw and mounted the router at the far right. I have a separate shop built router fence, but I can also use my TS fence.
Ken
Lumpy,
Thanks from me too! I'm thinking about a router set up dropped into the extra outfeed table I'm putting on my table saw. I'm looking forward to the response to your question.
The several lift mechanisms I've seen all seem pretty spendy but I guess ya get what ya pay for. By the way, nice router you got!
Enjoy,
Mack
Lumpy,
Keep the router for freehand use and invest in a cheap Grizzly shaper instead, especially if you want an accurate fence. Every time you take the router out, you will have to readjust the fence.
I have a Jet shaper and it is the littlest one they make. Today I ran about 30 feet of 2" walnut through it with a 1" cove shaper cutter and it never even slowed down. Plus I have collets to use everything from 1/4 to 1/2 router bits.
It is so superior in so many ways. Stable, accurate, easy to adjust, quiet, doesn't vibrate, versatile, the list goes on.
I am adding an Incra fence to mine and it will be even more versatile. I would never go back to a router table. I can understand using a router table if your shop is tiny or you seldom use one. However, if someone is going to the expense of buying router lifts, expensive tables, etc, it seems like such a waste to me. My shop is pretty small and real estate is valuable. I made a plywood top for my shaper and I put other tools on top of it when it isn't in use.
Michael
I have the big PC router as well. It's best for table installations, much more stable/accurate than plunge routers. I keep my oldie-but-goodie 3HP Makita plunge for hand work.
I heve the Woodpeck lift and love it - very precise when you are trying to dial it in for dovetail joints etc. Does take a while to raise and lower, that's the tradeoff for the precise adjustability. They do include a hex you can chuck into a drill to make that faster, but I'm always too lazy to get the drill out & set it up. As I recall mine came with three different collets. They also have a tall crank for after you already have your fence dialed in and need to fine-tune the height - well worth it.
I added the Incra fence and it is amazingly easy to crank out various joints. Of course, as some of the posters point out, I now have more invested than a decent shaper would cost. The flip side is that since I have a tiny shop and no room for a separate tool (this is in my TS extension table) this was the only way for me to go.
Regardless of the lift you choose (you are looking at all the good ones) it's the only way to go IF you are committed to the router table approach.
Wayne
I must agree with purchasing a small shaper instead of a lift. Are we all that lazy to bend over and raise/lower the router with the supplied knob? For what is spent on the lift, one could purchase a used Powermatic 26 shaper.
There is so much talk about shaper vs. router table...The real point is that they are not interchangeable. Each has it's own strengths, and can do things the other can't.
I never really thought that I'd want a lift. But I find that creeping up to the perfect setting is so tedious that a lift does make it more efficient. With my router in a table and compartment locked down (for dust collection), it became a pain.
I will eventually get a shaper, but for now, the router table will do.
WOW! I'm surprised at the feelings about a shaper.. I bought a real cheap jet shaper and it's such a dream to use compared to the router table that I can't understand why anyone would go thru that pain.. In addition it was cheaper than a router and lift table would be..
I still have a couple of routers for hand work but you can't beat a shaper for smaller work where your fingers are at risk nor can you beat them for speed and ease of set-up..
Sure everybody uses them for running moldings or makin' big stuff but I find that I can set up the shaper faster, use it and be done. While others are still setting up their lift table..
Changing bits is faster and I love having cutters last three and four times as long between sharpenings.. (the advantage of much lower RPM's )
I did sell my cheap shaper and buy bigger only because I'm building a timberframe and the bigger shaper is capable of doing things so much faster (one pass instead of several)
space for the shaper is not that big, I do keep all of my shop tools on carts to move in and out from the wall so that I have the space for the big pieces of wood that I handle. but if space were a super premium I'd buy a bench top shaper and use it rather than a router and lift table.. $225 will buy a new one that is similar to the Jet I had.
frenchy:
I really don't favor one over the other. It just seems the router vs. shaper debate is pointless. I wouldn't run a production cabinet shop without a shaper, but then again, show me a shaper that can cut sliding dovetails...
But I'll have to disagree with your comment about a shaper being safer for smaller work. I'll posit that the opposite is true.
As for a router lift, I'll agree it's not necessary (we can extend this to so many tools and any degree, right?). Heck, I love Gary Rogowski's router table. It is the essence of a router table, and he does fantastic work with it. He admits that he has to creep up to a perfect cut.
For me, all I got is the router table, and I'll take any help I can get to shave time.
let me see if I can make a case where a shaper is safer than a router table.
obviously when handling long or bulky items a router table can be unsafe.. unless special care is taken to bolt it firmly to a bench the large piece of wood could move or even tip over the router table.
However it is a little more subtile where a shaper is safer than a router table when working with small items..
The only reason I mention this it it cost my brother-in-law the tips of three fingers.
He was working on a router table at home and like most accidents he was in too much of a rush and failed to get the push stick. (sure he could have picked it up when he went to get the table or install the router or repalce the bits but he failed to ad with time pressing he did what I'm sure he's done a lot of other times only this time he got caught).. On my shaper the push stick is hanging right there next to the on off switch..
If you keep your router lift table set-up all of the time then why not have a shaper? it's not more expensive? If you don't and keep it tucked away then you know what I mean by set up time don't you?
As for sliding dovetails, please note that I didn't say that you shouldn't have a router.. there are many jobs where a router is needed and you can't use a shaper.. just that when it's time to consider a lift table why not do the job right and get a shaper?
Given all other factors remain constant, if your brother had that accident with a shaper, the damage would've been worse.
But I see the statement again in your reply: Router + lift = shaper, or more precisely, router + lift < shaper. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Come on over sometime and bring your lift table.. I"ll have my shaper and we can see.. I suspect that semi frozen hot dogs would offer a similar texture to fingers..
afterwards we can do some cove/bead or whatever detail on some timbers/ boards
Tufenhundel,
I neglected to mention that with a shaper it is pretty easy to keep a feather board set up on the fence, not so easy with some of the fences that I've seen on lift tables.
with the addition of a feather board and using a push stick I doubt that he would have lost his fingers...
You mentioned that it was easier to do sliding dovetails on a lift table than a shaper.
How? Why?
I mean I can remove my fence entirely or just back however much I need to just like a lift table. Sure typically shaper bits are bigger than router bits but I can use router bits (even 1/4 inch router bits) should the smaller size be of any benefit.. most shapers have adapters that allow the use of router bits, if not standard they are available..
the only adavantage that I can see with a lift table is that you need a router for it to work.. once you own a router you can do other things with it.. things that can't be done on either a lift table or a shaper..
But, since a lift table costs what a shaper does why not buy the shaper instead? What do you gain? What can a lift table do that a shaper can't? Are we talking about portablity? I mean a bench top shaper is just as portable, just as compact..
No bench top shaper won't allow you to one pass a big cove bit but then neither will a bench top.
Maybe my experince with router lift tables was the exception rather than the norm.. maybe everyone else only works with small pieces of wood and no one ever works with 8 foot long pieces.. (or longer)
I can't believe this thread is still kickin'...
Regarding the safety thing, if I remember correctly, someone made the point that working smaller parts on a shaper is safer. I thought this to be counter-intuitive, and disagreed. Featherboards and cutting sleds aside, the speed and diameter of the shaper will grab more (given identical feed rates). There is no point of contention if the work piece is secure, but if it is handheld...I am willing to bet very few people use a shaper to make decorative boxes and the like.
And I guess you're right with the dovetails, but then I'd consider it a compromise to a router table. Just as some operations on a router table are compromises for shaper operations. I've seen dovetails cut at shaper speeds...it'll chew up your work with tricky grain or even moderate feed rates.
Your last comment bores out my point, if I had an 8ft long board to shape, well, I'd like to have a shaper. For most of the work I do, the router table is the better solution. I don't like to mention the cost perspective because it is peripheral, but the cost of a best-of-class router and lift gets me a mediocre shaper.
And finally, I work for Jessem....ha ha ha....just kidding...well, maybe not....wait, I am kidding...ha ha ha...
DJK, I will admit that this thread has me thinking now. Even though I already have the PC7518 I will still end up spending another $600 or more on lift, and materials to build top,fence and cabinet.
Hmmmmm.....
(oh, and yes I am lazy)
My point is not directed at shaper vs router table but at the need for a router lift. I use both a shaper and router table but I think a lift is a waste of money. If some want a lift then purchase one and have fun. Guess I don't get it, buy a router, buy a table, buy a lift, buy a fence then build a cabinet. I almost forgot, buy bits. When finished you've sunk a alot of cash into a "system".
Some router table vs. shaper commentary.
I have been following this discussion and want to let you know that I just received the March issue of the American Woodworker magazine and there is an excellent article about how to build your own router lifter. This lifter seems to answer most of the problems associated with lifters, i.e. Weight, cost ease of bit change, etc. Check it out.
Normally I never buy that magazine but I was pretty impressed with that article on the home made router lift. I was actually thinking of making a slot mortiser using the same principal before I saw the article. A lot of applications don't need expensive linear bearings and this stuff is available in most hardware stores for low cost.
Whilst I'm firmly wedded to a cast-iron monster in the shop (a shaper) it doesn't actually stop me using a router table. My biggest gripes about them is that the fences are generally very poor when you compare them to a shaper and the vertical adjustment leaves a lot to be desired. I've never tried a router lift, but the new PC 890 with its' through the base adjuster interests me. Anyone tried one yet?
I should have said that I use both, and a pin router, too, depending on what the work is. They all have their advantages and disadvantages but overall my preference is for the shaper over the other two
Scrit
Edited 2/4/2004 7:58:38 PM ET by Scrit
I bought the JessEm Mast-r-lift last night and installed it in my table. What a nice piece of equipment. Extravagant? Yup sure is, but it works like a dream. As for a shaper, I don't think I need to use up more shop space.
Thanks to all who passed on their thoughts
Lumpy
I recently purchased the Jess-Em through Rockler and love it. Next item is Jess-Ems fence and miter slide. A bit pricy, but still less expensive than Incra (wish I could afford that stuff). Anyway, good luck in your search.
Oh, and I suggest going into stores like Rockler and Woodcraft to actually see the units before purchasing. I thought I liked the Frued untill I went to Woodworkers and realized how small and cheap it seemed.
Jim
Coventry Woodworking
Lumpy,
I should have jumped in here sooner. For about two years, I've been using the Precision Router Lift (PRL) from Woodpeckers. I love this addition to my router table. I use it with the 3.25HP Porter+Cable router -- a great combination.
This is built solidly, turns smoothly, and works flawlessly. There is absolutrely no backlash in the controls, and it allows absolute precision in calculating lift amounts. Also, the lift goes all the way up, making bit changing really easy.
Mine is the fine-adjustment model. I would strongly suggest this one. Yes, you have to turn it more often to get the bit to rise up, but the extra precision makes it worth it, and really it's not that difficult to turn it a few more times!
Can't imagine my router table without it.
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