Hi folks.
I’m starting my mission style sofa table by building a small mission style bench. I cut the mortise with the vertical router and the tenons with the horizontal router.
The tenons came out great. But with the mortises, the lenghth was fine (I used stop blocks on both ends) but the width varied because the stock was “stopped” on one side and both ends, thus it moved away from the fence while on the cutter. Lesson learned, either restrict the wood on all four sides or come up with another way to cut the mortises)
I think for the big project, I’ll cut the mortises with the horizontal router because I’ll be holding the stock down on the table and plunging sideways into the cutter instead of plunging down on the cutter.
Moving on…
I now have rounded mortises and rectangular tenons. Which should I change? Should I square up the mortises with a chisel or round off the tenons?
Also, since I’m new to the mortise and tenon thing, I made my practice tenons about half the height of the stock I’m working with, 3″ x 3/4″ stock, 1.5″ by 3/8″ tenon, are these proportions proper?
Thanks in advance,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Replies
Tenons are typically 1/3 the thickness of your stock.
Rogowski's book is a good guide to joinery.
http://cambiumbooks.com/books/joints/1-56158-401-0/
FWW #141 had a nice horizontal slot mortiser...
Rick, Have you made one of those? I was wondering how well those drawer slides are working in that dusty atmosphere. My first impression is that those slides would be better protected if the were flipped over so that the small part is on the bottom, and the trough where the re-circulating bearings are upside-down and more protected.
Haven't made one personally but did see one similar someone made and this was a few years before FWW 141 so I have no doubts on it working. I've been an advocate of loose tenons and slot mortisers for over 20 years now and find it's the best for small shop production and one offs. Try your inclinations on the drawer slides.If it doesn't work try applying the drawer slides in a different manner. Whatever works!
Oh I wasn't thinking of making one, I have both Powermatic chain mortiser, and tenoner. I just thought that the way that was shown, that the bottom part of the slide was an invitation to fill up with shavings and clog the bearings, while turning them over would give a little more protection from it.
If you're looking for a horizontal mortiser to build, I just built one from the book "Router Magic". It uses pillow bearings, a bit expensive but I'm really glad I made the thing. It has adjustable lateral and horizontal motion. Smooth as silk! You need a plunge router for depth. It's designed to clamp the work piece to the table to rout the mortise. You can also use it as a stationary horizontal router by allowing zero lateral motion. If interested I could post a photo. pk
Please do post a photo...
Thanks,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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Mark,I think horizontal routers with X-Y tables are great jigs, sounds like you have joined in.Ever seen a Multi-Router? I'm not suggesting you buy one, but copying their engineering is a good idea. They've got it figured out pretty well.I got lucky and happened upon an Inca mortising table so I didn't have to build the X-Y, just the router support. Hold-downs and stops are really important, again Inca took care of that for me.I can send a photo if you want. My suggestion would be to use some kind of cam clamp for the hold-downs. They are fast and provide the necessary force. For simple end stops probably just some t-track and blocks, accurate enough and allows for easy adjustment.Sounds like you have it figured out pretty well. I would only add that I don't think a plunge router is necessary. If fact you probably get better support from a fixed-style base. Just buy an extra base and build it into the jig. Then you can just pop the motor in when you want.My enthusiams for this type of jig comes from using the MultiRouter so that tool affects how I approach using my jig. I find the MR layout very comfortable from habit but there is no reason that other layouts won't work just as well. I'm thinking of the motion control levers. I like them, but a lot of home jig designs leave these out.Good luck.
Adastra,
I'm not using my router in 'plunge' mode I take it off the plung and put it into the fixed base for both horizontal and vertical work (I have two fixed bases permanently attached to the router table).When I said "plunge" I'm plunging the work onto the cutter not the other way around.I've been shopping for an X-Y vice but just not ready to spend the $.Thanks,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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Adastra,
did you ever see my cam clamp:
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I made four for a bow string maker I gave to a friend.
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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Oh yeah, I remember those. Really beautiful work. I enjoy that kind of stuff.Cam clamps are really great in the shop for jigs. So fast! Only thing better is air clamps but you have to spend some $ to set up with those.
I've posted some photos of the horizontal router I built at:http://homepage.mac.com/pqken/HRPhotos/PhotoAlbum11.html(Credit goes to "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton)With the (sealed) pillow bearings the lateral motion is very smooth. The shaft is 20mm stainless so it's good and stiff. Setup takes no time at all, horizontal, lateral, and then depth with the plunge router. I've built two other mortise jigs and they don't come close to comparing to this one. In fact they both have new jobs, collecting dust!Would I change anything? Maybe the adjustment plate at the bottom. I'd change it from ply to aluminum or steel. But right now it's doing it's job.It was easier to upload them there than crop and adjust for 3mb here. If you need any explaination please ask.pk
Edited 5/30/2005 8:44 pm ET by pqken
PK Thanks for posting the pics. Looks great. It's not clear but do you control the router with cranks?Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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No, not with cranks, you use the (stop) nuts for lateral and horizontal measurement. Set the router to where you want it and tighten the stop nuts. To rout I stand behind the router, gripping the handles and the mounting board, plunge a little and move left and right. Continuing until I reach the depth stop. Once the work piece is clamped into place I don't have to touch it thus leaving my hands free to control the router.
PQ,
Thanks. Got it. So everything rides on the pillow blocks. Do the pillow blocks provide any resistance? I'm assuming not.I looked on Ebay for PBs. They can get expensive...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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No, they're machined to exact standards so they're very smooth, sealed as well so the dust doesn't cause a problem. This accounts for the cost. I went this route after figuring I'd spend at least three, more likely four times the amount on a mortising unit by itself.Three stainless pillow blocks and two stainless shafts cost me less than $175USD. (I got them a tad bit cheaper because I live in Japan, which is a first.)The only resistance I could see having is if you didn't have the two shafts lined up exactly. It's not a difficult thing to make, took me about two days including drying time.pk
PK,Why did you use two pillow blocks on top and one on the bottom. Wouldn't one on top and one on the bottom be sufficient?(or two on top and a simple t-slot or sliding dovetail on the bottom)Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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I think it is more stable this way. Being that the router is heavy the two blocks on top support not only the left and right lateral movement but also the tendency for it to move off an arc laterally. When you rout to the right you move the mounting board and bearing plate together (the oppisite happens when you move it to the left). The pressure would be on the bit and on the left pillow block. The right pillow block would counter this force thus stabilizing the unit. The lower pillow block supports (and makes smooth motion possible) the downward pressure caused by the router which is hanging off the mounting board.With the three there is no resistance what so ever. Each pb's support upwards of 150kg's of force. The force the router exerts is well below this. It runs smooth as a finely tuned and well oiled machine.pk
Edited 5/31/2005 9:46 am ET by pqken
Linear bearings can't be beat. But a budget alternative is bronze bushing pillow blocks and chrome plated motor shaft.Have you seen the Mortise-Flex design? Its a home-built version of the Multi-Router and what I was going to build when I happened upon the Inca table.I you are thinking of building a full-blown jig, suggest doing one with a Z-axis and a tilting table. Not much more work, and it would likely take care of all mortise and tenon joints; including angled.What sort of a time frame are you on? I will be adding the Z-axis to my jig but likely not until late June/July.
One more thing, I've cut tenons as well. I'd suggest making the shoulder cut with a saw though, it's cleaner.pk
Here is what I'm working with now. Fixed router, so I have to move the stock. Lots of stop blocks clamped to the fence.The first pic is the back side of the router set-up.
The second is the router set-up with the bit set for cutting tenons. There is a little bit of tear-out - your idea of cutting the shoulders on the TS, makes good sense. (Then use the router to Hog out the bulk of the material).Time frame? I think I'll live with this setup for a while. If I come across some pillow blocks cheap then I'll do something sooner.The biggest improvement I need right now is a micro adjustment for the height of the router when mounted horizontally. I've been twisting my brain to come up with a lead screw/crank setup that does not get in the way of router operations but properly indexes the router (for example if I use a 1/4" x 20 lead screw, two turns should raise or lower the router 1/10" of an inch. However, since everything moves at an angle (see the pivot point on the left), the lead screw needs to be mounted at the cutter. Mount it to the right of the cutter and 2 turns will move the router less than 1/10" of an inch. Mount it to the left of the cutter and the router moves more than 1/10" of an inch. :-(Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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Since you are using a pivot on one end, rather than 2 rails to control up and down movement, the only thing I can think of is is to make measurements from the bit edge and mark them on the board for referance. The only problem with this is that the measurements would change when you use a differant bit.
I am looking at building a horizonal table myself, and will be looking at FWW jan/Feb 2001, Woodworkers Journal 12/04 mags and Carol reeds book and and woodworking with router and router magic books as well and see what the all show and make the best one or combine features to make one of my own.
I can't resist modifying/improving? jigs. I am jigaholic
Best of luck1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Mark, I move my router jack to the lowest corner of the horiz router mtg board just for the purpose of micro adjusting. I bought one of those collet centering pins for setups. Adj the pin to your line, swap bits. On mine, I'm able to see thru the mounting plate from the rear. It's not techno, but it works for me.
Joe
Mark,
Purists may disagree but I see no need to have mating ends on your mortise and tenons.
I use a slot mortiser to cut mortises and end up with the round ends. Tenons have square ends with my methods. I make the tenons fit the non rounded part of the mortise and they may even have a bit of an interference fit on the ends. (not the cheeks, those are fit just like any joint) Also they are pinned.
There may be times when a hauched M&T is desirable but the way I've described is applicable nearly all the time. I personally have done thousands this way and this was the technique in the furniture shop where I worked, they didn't fail. There is still lots of glueing surface and mechanical lock from the pins.
I think you'll find cutting mortises on the horizontal mortiser much easier and faster.
Good luck on your project.
Edited 5/22/2005 8:13 am ET by adastra
Mark, look into floating tenons. I'm a recent advocate but some of these folks have been doing them for 20 years with good results.
Joe
I get it. the Tenon is a third piece of wood and you cut two mortises on the stock to be joined. I can see the advantages. Almost like a biscuit only bigger...Thanks,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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I use a 1/4" spiral bit (love those things) in the horizontal router. Range of motion is +2in & -1/2in. I didn't have much control in end grain for aprons with the vertical setup. Direcly beneath the miter slot is 1" angle iron brace. Ignore the bike, Christmas re-builds are coming in early this year! Oh, and that router jack (and the one before it) has kept the table relatively flat for 25 years.
Joe
You can either square up the mortise with chisels or round over the tenon ends with a rasp.
If you want to be "traditional", square off the mortise.
If you want to go a bit faster, round over the tenon.
I have not tried floating tenons so cannot comment on them.
Mark.. Just me..
But with the mortises... DANG... They are hard!
I'd go with the round stuff... Loose tenons.. Just stop the router or what ever just short of the end.. Make a scrap to see what fits and see what bangs in square with a dead-blow hammer!
EDIT.. forgot to say leave the ends square!
And if makin' through Tenons!
Edited 5/22/2005 3:33 pm ET by Will George
Edited 5/22/2005 3:53 pm ET by Will George
I just did some more using the horizontal router - I don't have the spiral bit - and the wood jumped off the table. So it looks like I have to restrict the stock on the ends and on top. I'd post a pic but my camera is out for repairs...Yet another lesson learned.BTW, I love the horizontal router table for the application. Wish I had built it long ago.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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and the wood jumped off the table.
Geeee... Ya have to hold the stick down!
It was 1 1/8 piece of square stock about 8" long. Close quarters so it was tough to get a good grip on it and hold it down to the table and up to the horizontally mounted router.I have figured it all out now.Horizontally mounted router.
Stop block to control horizontal travel, stop block to control vertical travel.Slide the stock in at the starting point then push through the cutter (like sliding in a drawer). Maintain pressure on the stock to hold it against the cutter. The stop block on top keeps it down on the table.But I am defintely switching to spiral bit...
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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