I just left a rather heated discussion about miter slots in router tables, a discussion that (a) had taken over an innocent poster’s thread and (b) was something I’m interested in. Have been considering getting the Veritas router table top, which being a 3/16″ thick slab of steel, has no miter slot. Got to thinking one may not need a miter slot in a router table.
In the aforementioned thread, featherboards and hold-downs were mentioned, what with their residence in miter slots a common arrangement. Veritas markets the hold-downs pictured below.
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OK, the floor is open. Let’s give the other poor guy a break! If you have a miter slot in your router table, what makes it indispensable? If you don’t, how, pray tell, do you survive? 🙂
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 6/1/2002 11:20:28 PM ET by forest_girl
Replies
PS: According to Veritas, the holders have the following features:
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest Girl,
The application shown in the photo do not have anything to do with a miter slot. However, featherboards for holding your work piece down to the router table and firmly against the fence are indispensible when your work piece is parallel to the fence.
One application that "requires" the use of a miter slot and miter gauge is when you are going to run the end of your work piece against the blade, such as when making tenons. In applications such as this, you cannot use the fence... unless you use a sled which will firmly hold the work piece perpendicular to the fence.
When I bought my wouter table top from http://www.woodhaven.com, they felt strongly about NOT having miter slots, as they can weaken the table and allow them to warp. I bought mine without one and I often wish I had one.
I suggest logging on to the Woodhaven site and check out what they have to offer. They have a section in their catalog about the anatomy of a routher table that is worth reading.
I hope this helps.
Mike
Hi Mike. I've pretty much worn out my Woodhaven catalog -- talk about router heaven!
The reason I included the Veritas hold-down assembly in my post is because it is their alternative to standard featherboards and hold-downs. I had also seen a similar mechanism in a router book written by an English author. From the Veritas description of their fence, it appears that the hold-down assembly fits in a standard T-slot, such as is found in many commercially made fences these days.
The router I would be mounting in this table is a heavy Freud plunge router, so when I'm evaluating tables I'm giving considerable weight to (a) ease of mounting and dismounting the router and (b) ability of the table to handle the weight without sagging. The Veritas rates 5-stars in both of these categories, so I'm schooling myself in implements and techniques that work around the lack of a miter slot. So far, it looks like people who rout without them have found pretty straightforward ways of doing the work they need to do. Even if I didn't get the Veritas fence, I think I could design featherboards that would work fine on their steel table.
All that said, there are other tables to look at, and I'm still toying with the idea of making my own.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/2/2002 2:54:32 AM ET by forest_girl
Forest Girl,
I'm glad that you have a good handle on this. I had a heck of a time deciding on what table to use. I made my fist one using a 3/8" think acrylic plate. It sagged too much. I then bough the table from Woodhaven, without a miter slot at their recommendation. Their 1/4" thick phenolic plates do not sag at all, even with my big Elu machine under it. Also, I buy 1/4" think phenolic sheet material from Trend Lines and make additonal plates for my other routers. I actually leave the big plates on some of my routers, even for hand work. Usually, the extra size does not get in the way and it often provides more stability.
One of my next projects is to build a cabinet to go under my router table, which is now on a set of metal legs. There are a lot of good plans out there. I want ot maximize storage space as my router bit collection has grown over the years.
Good luck,
Mike
"I actually leave the big plates on some of my routers, even for hand work" -- This idea I like! If I end up going with a table that has a phenolic (or whatever) insert, I want to be able to tilt the insert up, pull the router out of the table, and do whatever adjustments or use it to do some freehand work. I definitely don't want to be taking the plate on and off. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forrest girl,
Mr. Wright is right and not wrong. Some may find the miter slot handy while others lilke myself find it as a catch-all for dust, screws, errant bits of matter, etc. When I cut the end-grain profile on for example a rail on a cabinet door, I usually use a backer block so there is no tear-out. This also helps to stablize the rail as it passes through the cutterhead, eliminating the need for a miter gauge and a miter slot, that is unless you are an overkill freak. The only reason I would use a miter slot is if I used only a miter gauge to hold the rail as I passed it through the cutterhead. But then- AHHH!! Massive tear-out!
Chow,
Joe
"Hide not your talents, they were for use made. What's a sun-dial in the shade?"
- Benjamin Franklin
Forest girl, I just wanted to let you know that I recently purchased the Veritas top and am very pleased with it. I use it to mount a 3 hp plunge router and it works very well with a unique mounting system. Regarding the mitre slots, since the Veritas top is so thin and solid it is easy to clamp attachments such as feather boards to it. The other advantage is that since the top is metal you can use magnetic attachments on it. Now I can use the same magnetic feather board on both my table saw and router. Hope this is of some help, Bill
Hi Bill, thanks for the review! What kind of base do you have it on? Are you able to easily tilt the top up for adjustments, etc.? What type of fence did you put on it?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest girl, When you purchase the top it comes with a video demonstrating the router holding mechanism as well as all of the accessories they sell. In addition they include a manual that has instructions for a frame type support for the table top. I built the support as per directions and my router fits fine except it is a little tight when you tilt the top to change blades. I am using a Ryobi 3.5 hp plunge router in the table. The nice thing about the router holding mechanism is that you can easily change the router positioning. The other nice thing about the table top is that it does not attach directly to the support frame so it is easy to flip the entire top to get at the router.
Regarding fences, I use an second generation incra jig fence and it works great. The fence that veritas supplies looks like a good one. The video that comes with the table includes information about the table as well as how to cut certain joints with it. I suggest you take a look at it before purchasing and see what you think. Good luck, Bill
"nice thing about the table top is that it does not attach directly to the support frame so it is easy to flip the entire top to get at the router." I was wondering about this. How does it stay in place?
I'm getting close to a decision. Hate to spend $$ on a router table right now, but am dead in the water since my smaller router died.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You make two strips that mount on the underside of the table to serve as guides for the top placement on the frame. Once the top is in place the weight of the router with the top keeps it secure.
Forest Girl,
I know where you're coming from on the router table decision.
Today, the router is the center of my woodshop. But I went though all the painful steps you are talking about -- starting off a few years ago with a cheap Craftsman table, then building my own table, then onto a Bench Dog, a JessEm, then building another table myself. Finally, a few months ago, I bought the Incra Twin Linear setup from Woodpeckers, and it has answered all of my router table requests. The table is substantial, with a top-quality fence system, terrific accuracy, and all sorts of functionality.
I got mine with the Precision Router Lift, and installed a Porter+Cable 3.25HP router. This is a heavy router, and there is no flex at all in the table. I love the PRL, as I never have to remove the router from the table to change bits.
Finally, I got a Billy pedal to safely turn the router on and off during routing operations. This is especially useful when doing stop dadoes, stop mortises, or stop tongue-and-grooves.
The only drawback is that this system is pretty expensive to set up.
Edited 6/3/2002 10:14:46 AM ET by MattSchenker
I'm in the "not needed" camp. I have never run into a situation where one was necessary for a routing operation. For end grain or "crosscut" type operations a backer board is requiered to prevent blow out at the end of the cut even if you have a miter. Useing a 10-12" square running it along the fence as a pushblock works just as well and is even safer IMO.
Sure it CAN be used to hold featherboards but so can a clamp(s).
Finally, I have built six router table tops and the one I built as a request that included a miter slot later warped because of the weakness in the slot area. We had to put angle iron supports on the bottom to bring it back into flatness. One a steel table of course, this weakness should not be a problem.
My suggest is to build it without the slot. If you later find you would need it, put it in then. But, use the angle irons on the bottom to support the weakened area.
I'll agree with Howie. I held off the miter slot on my last router table, and haven't missed it in several years. Somebody mentioned using the miter guide to move the workpiece for some operations, but your support is often too far away, and it causes issues for some things, i.e. you should always use a single reference, and it's hard to get (and hold) the fence exactly aligned with the miter slot and guide. To solve both of these, I have a right-angle guide that rides the fence, so it's always near the cutter, and always dead on. Easy to put a backer board in front of it, or even a wedge to hold any angle.
I finally took the miter channels I bought, and put them in a drill press table.
Gerry
Thanks to everyone for the input! I made an in-between move today -- decided to put off buying the table, and get a Porter-Cable 690 fixed-based router. That one will fit in my little table, and leave me some $$$$ to buy router bits with (what an idea!). PC is having a special that ends June 30th where if you buy the 690, 690LR, 9690 or 9690LR you can get a free edge guide -- not the whimpy one but the real nice one that our friend Norm uses.
This move will enable me to have a smaller router available, reserving the freud for big-time routing. When the time comes, I'm gonna grab that Veritas table though. I really like it! That table with a 3.5HP router in it should raise some serious panels, heh?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie, did you get the micro fine edge guide... way cool.... Dang, gave myself away.. wait I can still erase it... Anyway.. welcome to the PC junkie group.. Now, just try to stop....
LOL
Welllll, I have to be a patient forestgirl. It involves sending them a "rebate" form and they send me the edge guide. "But I want it now." Tee hee.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/4/2002 1:23:15 AM ET by forest_girl
I built my own router table from 1/2" cast aluminum plate - machined a "T" slot in a piece of 3/4 X 2 aluminum which I attached to the front of the table. The "T" slot is 9" from the router bit center making it easy to reach for close work. From the back side of the table, the router is 15" from the edge for routing larger pieces. I made a right angle sled form aluminum angle with an 8" long brass slide that runs in the miter slot and attached a replaceable MDF face. This thing makes incredibly accurate box joints - they fit so tight you have to use a cyanoacrylate glue so that it wicks in. I also use the miter "T" slot for feather boards which I always use when doing any routing requiring any degree of accuracy. The combination of the right angle sled, miter slot and fence (with a backup board to prevent tearout) is also great for making accurate tennons.
I also designed and built a router lift for my table similar to the Bench Dog design - great tool - now that I have the lift, I don't see how I got along without it.
I have been following the tread with a lot of intrest and figured out that a miter slot in a router table is the choice of the woodworker. I use a cheap craftsman router table with a craftsman 1-3/4 HP router with a 1/4" collet. Its portable, easy to use and storage is a breeze. I have used the miter slot a few times and it gets the job done. I was watching "Norm" the other morning and he was using the router table and it had a miter slot in it and he was using it like crazy. As for a table saw mounted unit, its a good idea but I don't need it there due to portablity. F_G I hope all works out for you on the router table.
Dave in Pa.
FG: Don't be afraid to glue up a couple pieces of 3/4" plywood or MDF, or even better get very cheaply a solid core slab door with minor surface defect, and make an inexpensive router table for immediate use. Even if you simply bolt the router to the underside of the table, instead of an insert, you can do so much more, safely, with a perhaps less convenient home grown table than with none at all.
Hi Don. Yep, I couldn't get by without any table. What I have now is one of those little cheap Black and Decker's that I took the legs off of, built little wings for, and mounted on hinges to the side of my contractor's saw. I picked up the Porter Cable 9690 1.75HP router the other day and it fits fine in this set up.
I love price matching! I had to go to the town where Lowe's is last night, so I stopped by to compare their price with HD, which is where I picked up the router. Lowe's price was $10 more, so I went for the price matching thing and bought one from Lowe's, will take back the one from Home Depot today. Saved $15. Cool!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi ya Jamie.. ya know I would be price matching too but I have this new Chevy HD that gets all of about 9 miles to the gallon and if I go price shopping, by the time I get done I could have bought it at ACE and still saved money.. Well, I guess you had to be there..... LOL.
Expressions Fine Wood Working and Cabinetry..A division of Schefer Engineering Inc., Santa Rosa, Ca.
Oh Steve, believe me I've been there. Went for about 3 years (back in the 1980's) with my only transportation being a Ford F250 with a 460 ci engine. Know exactly what you mean!! Used to rack up Shell bills of $250/month! The only reason the price matching happened this time was because I happened to be in the neighborhood, and stopped to check it out.
Don't think price matching will be a possibility with the types of tools you're buying now anyway. Ain't it grand though?!?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi ya kiddo. hope your having a great Saturday night. So how's the new router ? I used the Helllllllllo out of mine today. Did several bd ft of rails and stiles for that mirror I did (its in the gallery). Ran the big ole PC 7518 at about half throttle and swung the Freud RP bits at it on a single swipe. That thing never even coughed... Thank god for the new Jet DC... Blew chips all over the beemer but the DC sucked em off before the neighbors ever had a chance to complain.Steve - in Northern California
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