Replies

1. 
   jc21 | Dec 13, 2003 03:00am | #1

   I'd get a kit (Bosch, Makita or PC) with both fixed and plunge bases. Don't know what your budget is but the kits aren't that much more money.

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 13, 2003 04:16am | #2

   Gray-Head

     For a first, I'd get the plunge. You will need the plunge action evenutally and it will do the same thing that a fixed base will do out of the table. The Bosch kit is excellent if you want to kill two birds with one stone.

   Luck...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   DennisS | Dec 13, 2003 08:07am | #4

   Hey Sarge!

   I bought the Bosch plunge router (just the plunge base) since I had another fixed base machine, then I bought a PC router motor only to put in the router table. Now that I'm into building these cabinets, I found that (1) I set the Bosch plunge up for a specific depth and bit for the cabinet partitions, locked to that depth, use the original router for another dado setup, and ended up buying the fixed base for the PC to use for yet another machining operation. Guess I'm somewhat anal but I find it far more accurate milling joinery if I can tune one router to a specific task and leave it there for the duration of the project.

   With respect to plunge vs fixed, this Bosch is like pressing wheel bearings to get it to plunge! I've dissasembled the entire base, took to a class IV clean room (grin) for reassembly after cleaning and (dry) lubing the shafts and all .... I just can't get it to operate smoothly. Plus the springs on this thing must be out of the front end of an F350 or something. I really have to lean on the thing.

   I advise anyone prospecting for a plunge router to set it on the counter and try the plunge mechanism to see how smooth and easy it is to operate. Thus far, the only reason I think I can use to rationalize having purchased a plunge router in the first place was .... I didn't have one. Even now that I do, I don't find it all that worth while given the effort it takes to use it 'gracefully'.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   Grayhead | Dec 13, 2003 08:48am | #5

   ?Question?  This may be a dumb one but are you able to use the non-plunge router without having it mounted to a table.

   Thanks

1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 13, 2003 10:35am | #7

   The only thing a fixed-based ("non-plunge") router won't do gracefully that a plunge router does is....well, plunge.  They'll handle edge treatments, dados (not stopped, though) and rabbets, all that stuff, as long as you don't need to start in the middle of the stock.  I usually elect to use my fixed-base PC690 for off-the-table work, even though I also have the plunge router, just because it's lighter and easier to handle. 

   Seems like, however, the plunge routers are the ones that come with enough horses to power the bigger bits.  Some of these bits can only be used in a table, for safety's sake.  forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

2. 
   user-356142 | Dec 13, 2003 12:59pm | #8

   Not a dumb question.  You can use either one without a table.  It's just that a fixed base is a little simpler (because it doesn't have the plunge mechanism), so it's a little more compact.  You can also plunge with a fixed base by lowering the router with the protruding bit into the work piece; but it's not as accurate and it's a little less safe.  About the only thing you don't want to do is put a plunge router in a table, because there's no point to it: it's upside down and you're not going to be using the plunge mechanism.

1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 13, 2003 09:02pm | #15

   I disagree that there's "no point" to putting a plunge router in a table.  Lots and lots of WWers have plunge routers in their tables, for one perfectly sensible reason:  that's the router they have with the most horsepower.  It can be tricky, because the springs are working against the adjustments when it's upside down, but removing the springs takes care of that, or one can buy a Router Raizer or similar attachment to ease adjustment.forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

2. 
   user-356142 | Dec 13, 2003 11:38pm | #16

   Ok...I surrender.  I know there's nothing stopping you from putting a plunge router in a table, but I've never liked the complications that arise from doing it.  Since I was trying to give advice to someone whose knowledge of routers seems pretty basic, I thought it was best to steer him/her to the most straightforward option.  I agree, though, if my most powerful router was a plunge router, and I needed that muscle, that I might be tempted to use it in a table.

3. 
   DennisS | Dec 13, 2003 06:40pm | #12

   > ...are you able to use the non-plunge router without having it mounted to a table.

   Sure - with the Bosch (not sure how the others are designed) there's a threaded rod extending from the base that has lock nuts above and below a tab that extends off the router motor housing. You can effectively lock in the depth of cut by adjusting these lock nuts. I realize it's rather silly to have spent the money on a plunge router and use it this way, but I feel more comfy using in this manner for the kinds of cuts I'm currently making.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

4. 
   IMERC | Dec 14, 2003 01:31am | #17

   Yes you can. Something in a 2 hp+ kit is a "wonder why I didn't do this sooner" thing.

   Even if you use half of the kit some times and the other half most of the time it is worth the investment and just may save the day under right circumstances.

   2 to 2-1/2 hp routers are easy to work, by hand, as long as you respect their assets and short comings. Work simple to start and after you build experience there'll be no stopping you. Fit the tool to job at hand. After awhile you'll find yourself looking at larger and smaller ones and making arrangements to give them a new home.

    

   Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....

5. 
   Steinmetz | Dec 17, 2003 12:37pm | #29

   Grayhead, to answer your question whether you may use a non plunge router free hand,  Of course you can! Wood workers for generations, have gotten along just fine without the plunge option.

   In fact, the hand held round base router with the all important edge guide (Optional) is the handiest power tool in any workshop. For both beginner, and  'Old hand', that handy tool is like an extra hand.

    Some few tasks come to mind...

   Mortising for hinges and locks, Rabbeting,circle cutting dadoing, beveling,chamfering,inlaying,molding,dove tailing,finger jointing,rounding over,sign making trimming formica etc.

   Buy your first router with 1/2" capability. Be certain it will fit a future bought plunge base.  Buy1/2" shank carbide router bits only as needed. Learn to make jigs and fixtures.(These will be fourth hands)  Before long you'll wonder how you ever got along without one.

    Once you've turned a plain old piece of a tree into a work of art, your imagination will soar and your creativity will show no bounds.  If I've left out any more usages, don't worry, most other 'Knotheads' will chime in. Stein.

   Edited 12/17/2003 4:55:27 AM ET by steinmetz

   Edited 12/17/2003 4:58:15 AM ET by steinmetz

2. 
   user-356142 | Dec 13, 2003 01:00pm | #9

   Dennis-

     It sounds like there's something wrong with that router, or you got a lemon.  I've never had those problems with mine.   Is it too late to get it dealt with under warranty?

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 13, 2003 07:26pm | #13

   Dennis

     That's why I have a DW 621 for plunge. A Bosch 1617 EVS fixed base for free-hand and I have a Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP with above table adjustments on-board in the table. Did I mention the old Craftman (1970's circa) for laminate trim bits. I sold the old PC 690 when I decided to "rough it". ha... ha....

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 14, 2003 01:54am | #18

   Sarge, you sold your 690???!!!  How the heck are you going to survive with only 4 routers!???  ROFL!forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 14, 2003 07:37am | #19

   FG

      Looks like the only alternative to survival without the 5th router is to travel down Highway Frenchy to the nearest shaper outlet. That is the name of those store's that sell them, right? Shaper Outlet... I hope there's one in my area. ha.. ha..

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   DennisS | Dec 14, 2003 09:52am | #20

   Sarge -

   Do you find the DeWalt springs are easy to ... shall we say ... push down? Having never used any other plunge router other than this big behemouth of a Bosch that I have, perhaps you have to sit on them all to make them - plunge. This thing seems to stick in the up position so I have to exert more pressure on it to start the downward movement, more than it acutally takes to compress the springs. Thus it sometimes slams into the work. But then, I guess in reality that's the definition of a "plunge", then, isn't it (haha). With mine it's more of an aggressive poke.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   PeterDurand | Dec 14, 2003 06:25pm | #21

   That is one of the reasons I got the Dewalt. The springs have just enough force in them to raise it positively with a heavy bit. You can plunge it with the force of your index finger. Really sweet.

   Cheers,

   Peter 

2. 
   DennisS | Dec 14, 2003 07:14pm | #22

   Thanks for the note, Peter.

   Another case of innadequate research on my part. Lesson learned: think before you buy.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 14, 2003 07:19pm | #23

   Dennis

      I think Peter has already answered the question. Yes, the DW 621 has the smoothest plunge mechanism that I encounted when shopping plunge. I pretty much looked at all of them in this case. The dust collection on is excellent also.

      The router guy (Pat Warner I think) likes the DW 621 if he could only have one. Here's the cons. It has an unusual base (almost a rectangle) that takes some getting used to. Warner has a nice add-on base on his web-site that alleviates that. I also find the on-off trigger to take some patience to learn. It is akward as it has a secondary action that keeps the router from being pre-maturely triggered.

      On your plunge, check to make sure there are no burrs on the shaft or plunge. Might try some graphite spray on the shafts and it it's that springy you could remove a small lenght of spring to weaken it. The more coils in  the spring, the heavier the action if you factor in the circumferance of the wire used to make the spring.

   Regards...

   sarge...jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   DennisS | Dec 15, 2003 08:22am | #24

   Hey Sarge -

   Thanks for taking the time from your toys-for-tots mission to contribute.

   The shafts on my Bosch are prem-oh shiny machined-to-a-polish shine. So I don't contribute the extraordinary effort to depress it to excess friction, although I'll take your advice and break the thing down and try re-lubing it with either graphite or some of this dry-lube teflon spray I picked up recently. I've used in on some other tools and it works extremely well to reduce friction, especially on work surfaces like the table saw table, etc.

   For my cabinet project, I just have this router locked at 3/8" deep with a 23/32 bit for dadoing partitions to the tops and bottms of the cases. It's working well for that.

   The base on the Bosch has a flat on one side that indexes the base against a straightedge or in a jig so you always present the bit in the same manner to the work. That took some getting used to as well but now that I am used to it, I like the 'feature'.

   later, pal.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

5. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 15, 2003 06:52pm | #25

   Dennis

      Aw, I was hoping you would shorten the springs. We could add some spacers if it weakens too much to stiffen it back. Throw some NASCAR decals on the side of the case and we're ready for the oval track. Make our debut on the circuit by racing the "Big Brown Truck". ha.. ha...

     Sorry, just in one of those silly moods. :>)

   BTW, do you have the big Bosch or the 1617 series in 2+ HP?

   Have a good one, sir...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 12/15/2003 10:56:58 AM ET by SARGE

6. 
   DennisS | Dec 15, 2003 07:13pm | #26

   Yeah, I've got the 1617Bosch. For years I 'got by' with an old Craftsman I purchased like 30 years ago. Which, BTW, I still use frequently when needing multiple setups. It's demonstrably easy to see/feel the difference, though. I'm currently using the Craftsman for some 1/4" dadoes for cabinet backs. The Bosch is set up for 3/4" partition dadoes. The Bosch slides through the jig wth seemingly only the friction of the base plate holding it back while the smaller machine has to be gingerly pushed through it's much narrower cut.

   I'm not sorry I bought the Bosch but would probably have been happier if I'd looked through the choices more thoroughly. I'll just do my 'daily dozen' push-ups for a few weeks then I'll be able to handle those springs! (haha).

   Haven't had time to do the tune-up you suggested, though. I think that might help.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

7. 
   garth | Dec 16, 2003 07:05am | #27

   Dennis

   I too have the Bosch 1617 and I do not have the trouble with the plunge that you say you are having, after you complete the dados you may want to do as sarge said and check and wax the plunge rods.

   Scott T.

3. 
   user-356142 | Dec 13, 2003 04:46am | #3

   I've owned a number of routers, and my best purchase has been the Bosch 1617EVSPK Router combination pack.  It's a 2-1/4 hp router which comes with a plunge base and a fixed base, a deluxe edge guide, a templet guide adapter, and a case to hold it all.  It's cast from magnesium, so it's light, it's got a variable speed dial and a soft start feature, it's very quiet (for a router), and it's been powerful enough for whatever I've thrown at it.  The really nice thing about having two bases is that you can mount the fixed base permanently under a router table and use the plunge base for non-table operations; it has a quick change mounting mechanism that let's you switch the router between bases in a matter of seconds.  I just checked and they're selling it on Amazon for $230; there are also quite a few user reviews there that will show you that this router has a lot of fans besides me.  Considering the quality of this router and all the things you get with it, this is a steal.  I don't know what your budget is, but I encourage you to consider this.  It will satisfy your needs for a long time.

4. 
   IMERC | Dec 13, 2003 10:11am | #6

   Bosch kit... It's one of those glad you did purschases.

    

   Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....

5. 
   Routerman | Dec 13, 2003 06:03pm | #10

   Plunger, probably the 621.

1. 
   PeterDurand | Dec 13, 2003 06:22pm | #11

   I agree. Have had one for a few years and love it. It "feels" good in your hands. The plunge is very soft (not a stiff spring) and fixing the height is very intuitive. The dust collection is VERY good. You don't need 2 wrenches to change bits.

   Hope this helps.

   Cheers,

   Peter 

6. 
   beck4000 | Dec 13, 2003 09:01pm | #14

   I have a Hitachi MP3 3/14 horsepower..I use it in  table and also for Plunge routing..If you need one get the plunge router..they do both things..

   I am just a Woodworker,But I know Nothing..
7. 
   SawdustRay | Dec 16, 2003 10:22pm | #28

   Bosch 1613evs plunge router.  I know people who have four or five routers and people (myself included) who have only one.  If you were going to get two I would recommend a plunge and a laminate trimmer.   Since I've never had a fixed base router perhaps I don't know what I'm missing but I do a lot of work with the router and have never thought to myself, "I wish this were a fixed base".  I also use it mostly in a table.  I prefer to take the work to the tool instead of vice-versa - WHEN IT'S PRACTICAL.  Get a foot pedal switch if you work with the table and build a fence with a dust collector hook-up.  Build your own table - it will be much better than anything you can buy.  Always unplug the router when you make any adjustment!

   Have fun!