I’ve read that when you rub out a finish w/ steel wool, you should use a mixture of dish soad and water as a lubricant. Is this a generally accepted practice or should you rub w/ something else/wax instead? Or just rub dry???
Also, what type of wax should be used for applying to a finished piece – paste, briwax, other? Is it really just preference?
Thanks!!!
“100 Years” — scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work — “If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I’ll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)”
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First, need to know what type of finish you are "rubbing out". You certainly wouldn't use water on a shellac or waterborne finish. The water and a small dash of dishwashing liquid is sometimes used on oil and lacquer based finishes. However, I like a mineral oil thinned with mineral spirits. About 1 part mineral oil to 2 parts mineral spirits. This can be used on waterborne or shellac also.
It's very important that an oil based finish be fully cured before rubbing out. It can take 3-4 weeks to cure to the point where rubbing out works well. Also, varnish, poly or standard, do not rub out to a high gloss. They will never be shinier than they are off the brush. Lacquers and shellacs are much harder and rub out to a very high sheen.
You should avoid using steel wool. Small shards can break off and become imbedded in the finish. These will later rust and will be very obvious in the finish. If you use the water and soap, this can be even more of a problem. Use a non-woven abrasive like green scotchbrite which is equivilent to 4/0 steel wool.
Finally, wax add no further protection to the surface. If you decide to wax however, avoid BriWax. Briwax contains toluene as a solvent. This solvent can attack fresh finishes. Do not use it on finishes that are less than a year old. It's a restoration wax designed to clean the surface of older furniture. It's excellent for that.
Edited 11/21/2005 11:57 am ET by HowardAcheson
Edited 11/22/2005 11:52 am ET by HowardAcheson
I plan on using Waterlox original for most projects. I tend to avoid water-based finishes due to the abuse my stuff must endure.Thx
"100 Years" -- scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work -- "If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I'll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)"
The soap mixture works--but the soap is just to break surface tension, so you only need a few drops of liquid dish soap in the water. You can use light mineral oil too, but you will want to remove any residual with naptha or mineral spirits.
Don't use BriWax. Its solvent is strong enough that it sometimes is a problem for finishes that aren't fully cured--months. Whether you use wax at all is strictly an esthetic decision since it provides almost no protection, except perhaps because the surface is a little slicker.
Are you using steel wool when rubbing out?What would briwax be used for normally?Thx
"100 Years" -- scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work -- "If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I'll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)"
Bri-wax is used for cleaning and refurbing older furniture where the finish has ample time to completely cure.
I hardly ever use real steel wool. I do sometimes use 3-M grey pads. One fine finish surfaces, I tend to first "denub" with 320 or 400 grit sand paper, and then if I expect to leave a satin finish, I use fine pumice with parafin oil as a lubricant. I may use a finer wet dry paper--600 grit or higher before the pumice. If going to gloss, I usually skip the pumice and go directly to rottenstone (also with parafin oil).
That's the first time I have heard that, but it does make some sense. Briwax works on lacquer finishes that have cured a few days. I rub it on with 0000 steel wool and it does make the oak that I use glow. It does have a high solvent content, as the poster pointed out. They do make a version called Briwax 2000 that is more like the other carnauba pastes that are around the market, and doesn't have all of that solvent.
Thats good to know that there is a version more suited for fresh finishes.
I've had no problem leveling solvent lacquer as well as w/b poly with water w/o soap and silicon carbide papers - as long as the finish is fully cured. For rubbing out I've used maroon and white Scotchbrite pads, steel and brass wool with and without wax. All work well. I've used car, Johnson's, Howard's and Liberon waxes with no troubles. I learned about Briwax the hard way.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
"water w/o soap"... You didn't have anything to relieve the tension between the water and sandpaper then???
"100 Years" -- scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work -- "If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I'll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)"
Nope. I use a rubber sanding block. When the slurry gets to grabbing the block I'd just dip it in the water again.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
That's the way I was taught to do it... without soap. But, now days I prefer using mineral spirits to either water or mineral oil. I've actually never tried it with mineral oil. I may like that better. But, one thing I really like about using mineral spirits instead of water is that I can get on lacquer long before it's fully cured and because it seems to me to lubricate better than water. So, I don't have as much of a problem with it grabbing as I used to when I used water. It's interesting to see how others do it.
Since I mostly use Enduro w/b I stick to water. That way no worries if I sand through and have to do some touch up spraying.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
I prefer to rub out most finishes dry, since using a lubricant can make it hard to see if you have buffed through the finish.
On shellac I use grey or green pads instead of steel wool; on poly or lacquer I use abralon pads, sometimes with a tiny spritz of water.
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